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  1. #46
    The Queen of Maggots Izanami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nazrel View Post
    There was a non-sequitur declaration at the end of the "Adamantium Agenda" stating she was genetically 50% Sarah Kinney, something completely at odds with every facet of her creation as depicted in her origin story in "Innocence Lost" to which there has been no explanation given or promised leaving her current status up to debate, plugging the minor plot hole about eye color, and leaving a plot fissure as now that entire narrative ceases to make sense.
    Do they even know how genetics and inheritance work?
    She already considered herself Sarah's Daughter long before joining the X-Men.
    I am just going to sit down for a while.
    I come when there's something to take but I never give anything back.
    I know what you want. But it is not here. It's gone and it will never ever come again...

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Izanami View Post
    Do they even know how genetics and inheritance work?
    She already considered herself Sarah's Daughter long before joining the X-Men.
    I am just going to sit down for a while.
    They wanted to use the shock of it to keep Laura out of return and set up a Laura logan team up to find out what exactly it is(marvel change it to her not knowing how accurate the data is and Logan cant show any Interest to his accual children lives on his own, that for literally everyon except his accual kids)

  3. #48
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Izanami View Post
    Do they even know how genetics and inheritance work?
    Eh, it's soft sci-fi; scientific accuracy isn't as important as the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Izanami View Post
    She already considered herself Sarah's Daughter long before joining the X-Men.
    I am just going to sit down for a while.
    It's comics; there are always little odd bits that oversights that occasionally happen. I wouldn't sweat it too much, esp. since the overall idea (Laura didn't know that her mom was also biologically related to her, meaning she's more "normal" human then she though her cloned heritage made her).
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  4. #49
    Northern Lights Beaubier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Izanami View Post
    Do they even know how genetics and inheritance work?
    She already considered herself Sarah's Daughter long before joining the X-Men.
    I am just going to sit down for a while.
    Just another attempt of Taylor’s to inject warm, fuzzy feels into Laura’s past.

  5. #50
    Incredible Member Nazrel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaubier View Post
    Just another attempt of Taylor’s to inject warm, fuzzy feels into Laura’s past.
    The life Sarah created for the explicit purpose of being an exploited, dehumanized weapon, for a shadowy cabal, wasn't just a dissociated lab experiment, but her own flesh and blood.

    Isn't that touching? Doesn't that just fill you with those positive feelings?
    Context is king.

    X-23's most basic surface level characteristic that any idiot should grasp: Stoicism.
    I don't demand that her every minor appearance be a nuance in-depth examination of her character, but is it to much to ask she be written in Archetype?! This is storytelling 101! If you want people to stay invested in a character, you need to, at the bare minimum, write them such a way that they can plausibly be believed to be the same character!

  6. #51
    Ultimate Member Ambaryerno's Avatar
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    The simple solution is to just clarify that rather than being 50/50 there's a few fragments here and there to fill in the damaged sections of DNA. Enough to show up on the sequence, but not enough to significantly conflict with her origins.

    It frankly makes sense in context that Sarah would use her own DNA; Using the regular donor banks for an under the table project would have drawn too much attention.
    Still hoping for that Helix Reunion...

    The New X-Men: Can't let you grow up because you make everyone look old. But we can sure as @#$% mindlessly kill you off for shock value!


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  7. #52

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    I mean having a female clone of a male is hardly scientific in the first place. The problem is that I don't see how this change added anything to Laura's character, but it hasn't really been explored and I doubt it ever will so we will never know.

  8. #53
    A Gentle Woman Mia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nazrel View Post
    The life Sarah created for the explicit purpose of being an exploited, dehumanized weapon, for a shadowy cabal, wasn't just a dissociated lab experiment, but her own flesh and blood.

    Isn't that touching? Doesn't that just fill you with those positive feelings?
    Laura hinted in one of Luie's stories that Sarah used some of her own DNA in order to make the cloning take. Second, and this is strongly implied in innocence lost, that the whole reason she was able to dissasociste herself from Laura 's abuse (ie. Denying Laura' personhood) was due to her own bad feelings and shame she had experienced from having been sexually abused by her father. Sarah's intent of bringing Laura into the world had never been intended of having a child or starting a family.
    ē ďYou need not be large to be great. What you need is to be open to a Power greater than yourself.Ē- Rabbi Sacks
    ē ďIf you canít control your actions, you arenít quite whole.Ē- Bruce Wayne (Hush)

  9. #54
    Incredible Member Nazrel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mia View Post
    Laura hinted in one of Luie's stories that Sarah used some of her own DNA in order to make the cloning take. Second, and this is strongly implied in innocence lost, that the whole reason she was able to dissasociste herself from Laura 's abuse (ie. Denying Laura' personhood) was due to her own bad feelings and shame she had experienced from having been sexually abused by her father. Sarah's intent of bringing Laura into the world had never been intended of having a child or starting a family.
    I feel that you've missed the point of my statement, since it was to illustrate that it also fails on the level trying to add "warm and fuzzies" to her childhood.

    Yes, Sarah had issues related to the idea of parenthood do to abuse of her father, but that would make it far less likely for her to include any substantive amount her own genetic code, as would have objectively, undeniably, made her a parent; and you appear to have missed the thrust of that story being that Sarah could absolutely not disassociate herself from Laura's abuse.

    Can't say I can recall anything Liu did to overly imply she had Sarah DNA is currently coming to mind, but also, irrelevant, because that doesn't make the concept work any better.

    The parameters of the project were very clear "recreate the original specimen" i.e. Logan.
    What they were working with, and how they were going about it was also clear; a damaged but mostly intact genetic sample of wolverine, which they mapped to his Genome and started reconstructing on the most basic levels.
    The problem was also clear, the Y chromosome was so damaged it would take years to fix alone.
    The solution presented was also clear, excise it entirely and duplicate the existing X chromosome, there by getting around the problem while still ending up with a genetic duplicate; at which point the parameters are further reinforced as both Sutter and Rice are incised at notion of any deviation.
    She does it anyway.
    They begrudgingly accept the results.

    We have a clear train of events here.

    You can validate like 0.5%, from a practical and by extension emotional standpoint it could be dismissed as negligible, but 50%? Then the narrative around her creation ceases to make any sense.
    Last edited by Nazrel; 01-07-2019 at 05:44 PM.
    Context is king.

    X-23's most basic surface level characteristic that any idiot should grasp: Stoicism.
    I don't demand that her every minor appearance be a nuance in-depth examination of her character, but is it to much to ask she be written in Archetype?! This is storytelling 101! If you want people to stay invested in a character, you need to, at the bare minimum, write them such a way that they can plausibly be believed to be the same character!

  10. #55
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nazrel View Post
    The life Sarah created for the explicit purpose of being an exploited, dehumanized weapon, for a shadowy cabal, wasn't just a dissociated lab experiment, but her own flesh and blood.

    Isn't that touching? Doesn't that just fill you with those positive feelings?
    That's basically Innocence Lost in a nutshell. Nothing we didn't know before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mia View Post
    Laura hinted in one of Luie's stories that Sarah used some of her own DNA in order to make the cloning take.
    Where was that?
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  11. #56
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    Let's put a pin in this for now and get back to it when and or if marvel decides to revisited it. Tamaki isn't referencing it in x23, I doubt she knows what's going on and Laura her self dosent know. In a artical leading up to uncanny they state she questioning it. Blind trusting a file without its context would be out of character (yes it's from sinister, but altering it himself, pherspone alternate it, or it being altered because of a experent are all possiblity.) The only concrete we have is some of Sarah's DNA mist be present dut tonlauras eyes, and Taylor stating on Twitter just some small amount appeared in a unknown way(contamination via being carried by sarah is a possibility) just dont shitty. For all we know they might retcon the recon let's deal with it when we have actually information.
    Last edited by Dthirds3; 01-07-2019 at 08:10 PM.

  12. #57
    Northern Lights Beaubier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nazrel View Post
    The life Sarah created for the explicit purpose of being an exploited, dehumanized weapon, for a shadowy cabal, wasn't just a dissociated lab experiment, but her own flesh and blood.

    Isn't that touching? Doesn't that just fill you with those positive feelings?
    Framing Laura as Sarah’s biological daughter is highly problematic, to say the least. I would think it should bring up conflicted emotions in Laura but as usual Taylor chose the path of least resistance for Laura.

    Frankly I’m glad it hasn’t been brought up again and I hope it doesn’t.

  13. #58
    The worst there is Shampoozie's Avatar
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    Hoping for that Logan Laura reunion before too long. I also wonder how long till Laura pops up in Spider-Man, Taylor seems to love guest appearances

  14. #59
    Ultimate Member Ambaryerno's Avatar
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    So..

    spoilers:
    We got a bit of a retcon in X-23 #8 today. Turns out Chandler from the Four Sisters arc of ANW was the one responsible for the trigger scent. Which means he must have been on the original X-23 project at the Facility. Unfortunately that also causes some problems for Kimura's actions undermining him, unless she considered him a rogue element. Personally, I think Tamaki is just confusing Alchemax and the Facility, conflating them into one entity like she seemed to do in #7 when Laura said SHE was created by Alchemax.
    end of spoilers
    Still hoping for that Helix Reunion...

    The New X-Men: Can't let you grow up because you make everyone look old. But we can sure as @#$% mindlessly kill you off for shock value!


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  15. #60
    Ultimate Member Ambaryerno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shampoozie View Post
    Hoping for that Logan Laura reunion before too long. I also wonder how long till Laura pops up in Spider-Man, Taylor seems to love guest appearances
    I'm not holding my breath. Marvel seems content with just TELLING us that Laura and Logan are close without actually making the effort to SHOW us or actually develop the relationship.
    Still hoping for that Helix Reunion...

    The New X-Men: Can't let you grow up because you make everyone look old. But we can sure as @#$% mindlessly kill you off for shock value!


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