Jason Todd: Robin, Red Hood, Arkham Knight Appreciation 2019

[Lirica]

Mmm... Maybe the dynamics where like that because Kyle was newer in the job. I recall reading somewhere that he was in that range of age (the reason why I said he was); and I think Dick never got to reach 30 before FP. I may be wrong, I'm unsure now. It's not like I've read a lot of cosmic DC (even if I've been trying to catch, because I like it), and the JL books interest me just middly. I think I'll trust you, if you say that you read in some comic that he was actually younger.

It's nice that you'd trust my word, but I truly don't want to be giving false information! I'll definitely see if I can find a source. Perhaps other users who frequent the appreciation threads for Wally and Dick (and Kyle if he has one) might be able to provide a source. Or even outside blogs.
It could also be that there's discrepancies, though. In general were ages pretty consistent post-crisis?

Oh, they do. But they're so palm in the face triggering that one has to point then. He also has cool moments, for sure. I think he has a quite good range of traits that make for an enjoyable character. I'm not a fan, but I like what I've read.

Very true.
--

On a more Jason-centric note: In general, does Jason's current continuity take anything from pre-crisis? I want to read his pre-crisis robin stories at some point, but I get trades more often than not, so I'd rather start with his post-crisis robin stories. Would I miss out on anything if I started there?

[Zaresh]

It's nice that you'd trust my word, but I truly don't want to be giving false information! I'll definitely see if I can find a source. Perhaps other users who frequent the appreciation threads for Wally and Dick (and Kyle if he has one) might be able to provide a source. Or even outside blogs.
It could also be that there's discrepancies, though. In general were ages pretty consistent post-crisis?


Very true.
--

On a more Jason-centric note: In general, does Jason's current continuity take anything from pre-crisis? I want to read his pre-crisis robin stories at some point, but I get trades more often than not, so I'd rather start with his post-crisis robin stories. Would I miss out on anything if I started there?

No worries. I already asked in the Kyle appreciation thread. I hope they know and can help.

To my very limited knowledge of old stuff, the only thing that has been carried from pre-COIE with some continuity until nowadays was Jason saving the day in "For the Man Who has Everything".

[Zaresh]

So I got answered. Not issues, but I guess you were right, @Lirica, and he was a bit younger that Wally, but still in the Titans gen, like Aahz thought.

Seems like I was wrong \o/.

I don't remember his direct age, but Wally mentioned pre-Flashpoint that Kyle was a bit younger than him.

I don't think it's been established now, there are too many problem with timeline and continuity.
Before FP he was aged as original Teen Titans members (Dick, Donna etc.).

[Lirica]

No worries. I already asked in the Kyle appreciation thread. I hope they know and can help.

To my very limited knowledge of old stuff, the only thing that has been carried from pre-COIE with some continuity until nowadays was Jason saving the day in "For the Man Who has Everything".

Oh, I didn't know there was a Kyle appreciation thread. Cool! Thanks for asking!

Google tells me that it's Superman Annual #11 from 1985. That correct? I wonder if comixology has it; maybe in a collected edition if not on its own.
Also, this the comic that was the basis of the JLU episode? I didn't know Robin, let alone Jason was in it. Now I'm even more curious.

[Lirica]

So I got answered. Not issues, but I guess you were right, @Lirica, and he has a bit younger that Wally, but still in the Titans gen, like Aahz thought.

Seems like I was wrong \o/.

Again, thanks for asking.

I'm still curious on the issues. I almost feels like information that keeps circulating, but is actually fanon, since the issue is unknown for now. lol

[Aahz]

To my very limited knowledge of old stuff, the only thing that has been carried from pre-COIE with some continuity until nowadays was Jason saving the day in "For the Man Who has Everything".

Pre Flashpoint, his appearences in Titans and the team up with Kid Devil were afaik also still canon, post flashpoint it is hard to say if they still are.

[Zaresh]

Oh, I didn't know there was a Kyle appreciation thread. Cool! Thanks for asking!

Google tells me that it's Superman Annual #11 from 1985. That correct? I wonder if comixology has it; maybe in a collected edition if not on its own.
Also, this the comic that was the basis of the JLU episode? I didn't know Robin, let alone Jason was in it. Now I'm even more curious.

As far as I know, it is. It's one of the stories Alan Moore wrote for Superman that are now classics (alongside with "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?"). In the show, Robin is left out for reasonable reasons (his role is small, and the series don't show Robin iirc), but it's based in that annual, as far as I know. And it's the same story from where those famous panels of Robin, Batman and Wonder Woman with the "Think clean thoughts, chum" came.

Edit:

Pre Flashpoint, his appearences in Titans and the team up with Kid Devil were afaik also still canon, post flashpoint it is hard to say if they still are.

Thanks! I wonder if they will bring that again, with all that has and still is happening in HiC.

[Sergard]

I'm not sure if that was intentional on your part, but good Monty Python reference.
Oh, I have not read Countdown, though, I have heard of it (and now thinking about it I've seen fanart)--mostly to not read it. Does their animosity turn into a fight(s) over Donna? And also, what even prompted Jason to saying that line in context?

Sorry to disappoint, but it wasn't intentional. What exactly was the reference?
To be honest - I haven't read Countdown fully either. I skipped all parts without Jason, Donna and Kyle. But if you proceed like that you actually obtain a very nice multiverse-travel-story.
I think Jason was envious at that moment. Back in "Countdown" Jason was more of a lone wolf type without friends and family. Donna was a person he could connect with - and then Kyle pops up, saves Donna, behaves very flirtatious towards her and gets all her trust. Jason probably felt very bitter.

Also, what is the actual context of that panel of pre-crisis Jason?

In the same issue Jason becomes Robin - and Jason feels a little insecure. In the two panels before the one I posted Jason says to Bruce: "All the time I bugged you to let me be your partner ... I don't think I realized what a big step it'd be ... what a change ... It'll just take some time, that's all ... getting used to being two different people."

So Bruce' comment is (probably) to be interpreted as wanting to help Jason to handle two identities.

[Sergard]

Memories are fuzzy. I remember a few about Jason being Catwoman's or Ivy's sidekick, another one with him being a cop in Blûdhaven, I remember reading a few in which he works for Talia after coming back from death (one was quite good and I think it was a three parter), another two about him taking into the mantle of Lady Shiva (one of which I liked a lot too, but was short lived, iirc). And at this moment those are the ones that I can remember.

Maybe that's the fanfic in which Jason becomes Ivy's sidekick? The Growth of Hemlock by TheQueenyGospels
(At least "Hemlock" is the only sidekick name I associate with Jason and Ivy.)

And here's a fanfic with Stray!Jason: Cats, Bats, Kittens, and Hatchlings by ThePackWantstheD

Here are some fics that are tied to Talia/League of Assassins/Damian. Maybe you meant one of them?
The Ties that Bind by trx
Golden by shauds
Verdant by Cerusee
Are We Living In The Darkness (Do We Listen To The Light) by MYuzuki

Here's some Arkham Knight fic in which Bruce and Jason bond:
Or any misery you choose by ithoughtslashmeanthorror ("See how deep the bullet lies"-series)

And a fic in which Jason works for Amanda Waller:
Sometimes Goodbye's the Only Way by KatastrophicTodd

[Zaresh]

Maybe that's the fanfic in which Jason becomes Ivy's sidekick? The Growth of Hemlock by TheQueenyGospels
(At least "Hemlock" is the only sidekick name I associate with Jason and Ivy.)

And here's a fanfic with Stray!Jason: Cats, Bats, Kittens, and Hatchlings by ThePackWantstheD

Here are some fics that are tied to Talia/League of Assassins/Damian. Maybe you meant one of them?
The Ties that Bind by trx
Golden by shauds
Verdant by Cerusee
Are We Living In The Darkness (Do We Listen To The Light) by MYuzuki

Here's some Arkham Knight fic in which Bruce and Jason bond:
Or any misery you choose by ithoughtslashmeanthorror ("See how deep the bullet lies"-series)

And a fic in which Jason works for Amanda Waller:
Sometimes Goodbye's the Only Way by KatastrophicTodd

I know I've read some of those, and even got to link them in the previous thread (surprising no one, I forgot to bookmark those I liked). The one with Talia I cannot remember was older. And the one with Jason as Ivy's sidekick was older as well; but that one was so-so, so it's not much of a loss for me. I'll post a new collecting list tomorrow.

In the meanwhile, I've been drawing. My initial idea was making this with markers, but I had an accident and had to switch to coloured pencils. It was a rather fast drawing, even if it took several hours to finish it. Here we have the first member of the Red Hood RPG Party: Robin The Druid.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

Small interview with Lobdell

Interestingly, this is the first time where he outright admits that Jason's new outlook in life and crime fighting is not due Batman but rather, due Roy's passing.

[G-Potion]

Thanks for sharing, Dark!

Interesting about why Jason decided on his new look, and it would have been clear to the readers had Jason worn it after hearing about Roy's passing. Then again, with #26 being the opener of his solo gig, maybe it was equally important that the new costume was shown in that issue.

[Zaresh]

Thanks for sharing, Dark!

Interesting about why Jason decided on his new look, and it would have been clear to the readers had Jason worn it after hearing about Roy's passing. Then again, with #26 being the opener of his solo gig, maybe it was equally important that the new costume was shown in that issue.

That's my guess as well, that given the nature and intention of issue #26 (which was showing how the new direction would go), they used the new costume. He doesn't wear it in #27, and I guess... Maybe he decided that he would keep wearing that in that issue, after Roy.

Or Lobdell just said that because it sounded better if it was connected with Roy's demise. But as far as I've seen, the man seems to be honest more often than not, and then the explanation from Woods in the D Nation special mentioned that Lobdell wanted to show how Jason was dealing with emotional hurting or something like that. So, I guess he did had Roy's death in mind, but then choose to show the costume to deliver the readers the whole new pack from the start.

(I think I'm overthinking this)

[Sergard]

Small interview with Lobdell

Great cosplays. I'm a little sad that the interviewer didn't ask more RHatO specific questions.

Still six days to go until the next Red Hood: Outlaw issue is released. And I don't have any hopes that the preview will be posted online before Monday. I hate waiting for previews.

[Lirica]

As far as I know, it is. It's one of the stories Alan Moore wrote for Superman that are now classics (alongside with "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?"). In the show, Robin is left out for reasonable reasons (his role is small, and the series don't show Robin iirc), but it's based in that annual, as far as I know. And it's the same story from where those famous panels of Robin, Batman and Wonder Woman with the "Think clean thoughts, chum" came.

Now I definitely want to read it. I loved the that episode and would love to see how it played out in the comic!

Sorry to disappoint, but it wasn't intentional. What exactly was the reference?
To be honest - I haven't read Countdown fully either. I skipped all parts without Jason, Donna and Kyle. But if you proceed like that you actually obtain a very nice multiverse-travel-story.
I think Jason was envious at that moment. Back in "Countdown" Jason was more of a lone wolf type without friends and family. Donna was a person he could connect with - and then Kyle pops up, saves Donna, behaves very flirtatious towards her and gets all her trust. Jason probably felt very bitter.

"No one is ever expecting Jason/Kyle" immediately made me think of "Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition".
Well, if I can just read the parts of Countdown that have Jason, Donna and Kyle in it without it being too confusing, then I'll do that! Thanks!
Ah, no wonder Jason and Kyle clash in that series then.

In the same issue Jason becomes Robin - and Jason feels a little insecure. In the two panels before the one I posted Jason says to Bruce: "All the time I bugged you to let me be your partner ... I don't think I realized what a big step it'd be ... what a change ... It'll just take some time, that's all ... getting used to being two different people."

So Bruce' comment is (probably) to be interpreted as wanting to help Jason to handle two identities.

Gotcha. Thanks for the explanation!