Jason Todd: Robin, Red Hood, Arkham Knight Appreciation 2019

**Zaresh** · 09-02-2019, 06:59 AM

Originally Posted by Rise

I agree with the ones who said Jason doesn't need his own generation.

They can do more harm than good because when they struggle to find a place for them, you get dragged down with them. Just look at Tim and his generation or even Dick with the titans.

I see that point, and it's true; but it's also true that when you want to make him interact with other heroes/characters in a friendly way, teaming up or whatsoever, because he doesn't have his own group, it tends to end up with "issues" among the fans of those characters. "Don't steal my teammates/supporting cast" is probably what's behind that logic (I think it's just silly, because one can be friendly with people, sharing friends with your family, etc.). I'm already expecting a lot of Wally fans complaining if Lobdell makes them share a page unless it's in hostile terms (and that's a possibility, because now he's writing both characters).

Rac7d* · 09-02-2019, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by Zaresh

I see that point, and it's true; but it's also true that when you want to make him interact with other heroes/characters in a friendly way, teaming up or whatsoever, because he doesn't have his own group, it tend to end up with "issues" among the fans of those characters. "Don't steal my teammates/supporting cast" is probably what's behind that logic (I think it's just silly, because one can be friendly with people, sharing friends with your family, etc.). I'm already expecting a lot of Wally fans complaining if Lobdell makes them share a page unless it's in hostile terms (and that's a possibility, because now he's writing both characters).

It’s about contradiction why would 19 former addict, recently contracted by the government, just found out he has a child with a super villainess make bond with the 14 Jason

If you rewrite Roy for Jason, then you can affect the relationship he has with other, like DIck and Donna

**Rise** · 09-02-2019, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by Zaresh

I see that point, and it's true; but it's also true that when you want to make him interact with other heroes/characters in a friendly way, teaming up or whatsoever, because he doesn't have his own group, it tends to end up with "issues" among the fans of those characters. "Don't steal my teammates/supporting cast" is probably what's behind that logic (I think it's just silly, because one can be friendly with people, sharing friends with your family, etc.). I'm already expecting a lot of Wally fans complaining if Lobdell makes them share a page unless it's in hostile terms (and that's a possibility, because now he's writing both characters).

Who cares? It's just a noise. Some fans just love complaining about any stupid thing and I don't remember Dick, Tim and Damian only interacting with characters from their generations.

If a writer wanted Jason to interact with any character they want, they can and no fan whinning about it should stop them.

**Zaresh** · 09-02-2019, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by Rise

Who cares? It's just a noise. Some fans just love complaining about any stupid thing and I don't remember Dick, Tim and Damian only interacting with characters from their generations.

If a writer wanted Jason to interact with any character they want, they can and no fan whinning about it should stop them.

Well, fair enough.

**Arsenal** · 09-02-2019, 01:24 PM

Not having a set Generation just means it takes a bit more effort to give Jason a new playmate than simply checking out the latest addition to one of DC’s main hero families. That’s all.

**RedBird** · 09-02-2019, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by Zaresh

I see that point, and it's true; but it's also true that when you want to make him interact with other heroes/characters in a friendly way, teaming up or whatsoever, because he doesn't have his own group, it tends to end up with "issues" among the fans of those characters. "Don't steal my teammates/supporting cast" is probably what's behind that logic (I think it's just silly, because one can be friendly with people, sharing friends with your family, etc.). I'm already expecting a lot of Wally fans complaining if Lobdell makes them share a page unless it's in hostile terms (and that's a possibility, because now he's writing both characters).

Originally Posted by Rac7d*

ItÂ’s about contradiction why would 19 former addict, recently contracted by the government, just found out he has a child with a super villainess make bond with the 14 Jason

If you rewrite Roy for Jason, then you can affect the relationship he has with other, like DIck and Donna

Why? Because he is no longer an older addict with a kid from a villainess. (a kid that was already senselessly killed off mind you)

There was, after all, a universe wide 'reboot' that removed all the history from these characters and erased their past.

Let's not get cause and effect mixed up.

The question is about concerns for characters teaming up who already have history with other characters. Writing Roy and Jason partnering up should in actuality have absolutely NO effect on Roys relationship with ANY other character. Period.

The CAUSE of Roys diminished relationship with Dick and Donna etc was a senseless reboot with no consideration for character history that left many of the Titans as either non existent or as blank slates. A legitimate complaint and concern from the ridiculous new52, but not one caused by Roy interacting with Jason, such complaints miss the context of the new52 reboot entirely. There was no 'contradiction' within the relationship formed in rhato since the reboot left nothing to contradict. (ironically, I think at the time rhato was the only book to knowledge that the Titans/teen titans existed at one point, and that the outlaws had a relationship with them, to editorial dismay.)

Originally Posted by Rise

Who cares? It's just a noise. Some fans just love complaining about any stupid thing and I don't remember Dick, Tim and Damian only interacting with characters from their generations.

If a writer wanted Jason to interact with any character they want, they can and no fan whinning about it should stop them.

And ultimately THIS.

We've seen plenty of characters within the dc universe crossover and interact with others, hell we've seen things like the exact same generation of teen titans swap (robin) hands two, three times over, but also within the greater narrative of the dc universe, such complaints have no place. Beyond editorial meddling, there's no barrier that prevents characters from interacting with each other and at the end of the day, I gotta agree with Rise in that Jason doesn't NEED a generation. At least not the DC line kind of generation.

The tragedy of his character is that he did not receive the chance to form a 'generation' for himself, but at this point there's no looking back, that boat has sailed. If you notice, these 'generation' characters generally begin as children. As part of the external logic, it's just a way to appeal to kids by selling justice league mini, and as part of the internal logic, it's to give super hero kid characters a chance to grow up among individuals who are just like them and to form their identity as kids or teens among the community.

Like I said, that boat has sailed for Jason, he has already missed out on forming an identity as a kid/teen and that is a unique part of his character. The fact that his formative years are not just within childhood but also his current young adulthood.

Trying to search through the sea of DC characters for ones that are JUST older than Tim but JUST younger than Dick and on top of that are also, 'UNTOUCHED' to appease fans and suit Jason is futile and pointless, not only cause of how close these robins age gaps now are anyway, but also because Jason is already a young adult now, (maybe a slightly emotionally stunted adult, but still), there's no need to find characters his age because he is not limited by having a team book, 'only for kids' or 'only for teens'. I think that's a nice positive to the Outlaws book which is that these characters don't have to be limited by any artificial grouping like that. Plus like Rise said, we've seen how generational characters can hold their Robin counterparts down and limit them.

The REAL concern should always be for characters to be well written within context, have believable chemistry and overall interesting interactions. Not whether or not their ages match, or with worries that these characters are OWNED TM by 'other' characters as deemed and decreed by fandom.

**Sergard** · 09-03-2019, 10:57 AM

I'm hyped. I love fan stuff like this.

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OPEN UNTIL OCTOBER 1ST

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PREORDER: ESTIMATED SHIPPING IN NOVEMBER
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Charity Zine: Proceeds go towards International Bat Conservation
***cover art not final

**Sergard** · 09-03-2019, 11:00 AM

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65+ Pages
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Charity Zine: Proceeds go towards International Bat Conservation
*** cover art not final

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GOTHAM BOLD: BUNDLE #2

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9x6 Perfect Bound
5 Mini Prints
2 Sticker Sets
4 Acrylic Charms
Charity Zine: Proceeds go towards International Bat Conservation
*** cover art not final

Here's another sneak peek. Artwork by Karl (@karlsteinns)