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  1. #3961
    Don't Bully a Hurt Dragon Sergard's Avatar
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    I wonder if Detective Comics #1017 contains an artistic reference to Jason: Preview.
    I read the preview before I read the summary. So my first impression was that there are a lot of themes that remind me of Jason.
    Then I read the summary - it's a Damian story. So Jason will definitely not appear.
    Maybe it's better this way. I definitely don't need a third story this year in which Damian attacks Jason for no good reason.
    Last edited by Sergard; 12-09-2019 at 04:24 PM.

  2. #3962
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sergard View Post
    I totally forgot about the Infected storyline - although there was even an advertisement for it in the last RH:O issue.
    I'm surprised how easy it is to completely ignore the main part of the Year of the Villain event or anything connected to the Batman Who Laughs.
    I don't mean that YotV or the BWL are bad concepts. YotV actually looks interesting. But I'm glad that RHatO isn't interrupted by tie-ins like New52 RHatO or Red Hood/Arsenal.
    Don't forget about Event Leviathan an event that completely reshaped the DC universe. :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaresh View Post
    I couldn't agree more. It's why I'm not fond of all those events every few months.
    I completely agree with you, the constant events really get annoying since they rarely amount to anything interesting. heck somehow apex Luthor is going to revert back to human at the end of the villain of the year so he can be an anti-villain in doomsday clock and not thrown right back in prison. and the whole Leviathon thing is swept under the rug, leaving Mark shaws four fanboys sad.
    Last edited by brenster21; 12-10-2019 at 09:28 AM.

  3. #3963
    Don't Bully a Hurt Dragon Sergard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gotham citizen View Post
    I see, they weren't available.
    Anyway I named those characters because I thought it was a team of characters trained by Batman, but that they don't agree with his methods, because they think they are in a war and a war can be won only by the less scrupulous army. So I thought to Huntress, Orphan or Spoiler (if I remember well Batman said one of the two was too violent) and also Azrael (even if I don't know what happened to him) could be a good roster for this kind of title. In this way the title would have a very strong identity and the writers could have create some interesting stories, emphasizing the divergences among the Outlaws and Batman & Co (Nightwing, Batgirl…) with some crossover and/or some apparition of Batman & Co like guest star. I don't want say the book is without identity or the roster isn't good, because I read only the first ten issue, but this is what I thought the book was and I think it might be a good idea for a title.
    I think Cass actually agrees with Batman's methods. She definitely follows his No-killing-rule. Cass is also younger than pre-Flashpoint.
    Cass and Stephanie are probably both minors in this continuity.
    Azrael was also part of the Gotham Knights (together with Cass, Batwoman, Red Robin, Clayface and Batwing) and is currently a main character in Justice League Odyssey.

    I personally prefer it when Jason's team members are not part of the batfamily. This way, Jason's character - and the book in general - is more independent of the Batman franchise.
    The batfamily members also have all a similar skill set. Some stories could be difficult to tell. A batfamily members team-up is, in my opinion, a better concept for a mini-series or event books like Eternal.
    Last edited by Sergard; 12-10-2019 at 12:59 PM.

  4. #3964

  5. #3965
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedBird View Post
    With jacket looks better than without in this one.

  6. #3966
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sergard View Post
    I think Cass actually agrees with Batman's methods. She definitely follows his No-killing-rule. Cass is also younger than pre-Flashpoint.
    Cass and Stephanie are probably both minors in this continuity.
    Azrael was also part of the Gotham Knights (together with Cass, Batwoman, Red Robin, Clayface and Batwing) and is currently a main character in Justice League Odyssey.

    I personally prefer it when Jason's team members are not part of the batfamily. This way, Jason's character - and the book in general - is more independent of the Batman franchise.
    The batfamily members also have all a similar skill set. Some stories could be difficult to tell. A batfamily members team-up is, in my opinion, a better concept for a mini-series or event books like Eternal.
    Yeah, Cass is pretty hard "no killing" last I checked. And a shame she was made younger than Jason in this continuity. Them being near the same age still reigns supreme in the fanfics I've seen that have the two of them.

    But otherwise, yeah. Jason works best in his book with non-Bat family members, though I do believe in the occasional cameo. Like when Kate and Renee did when Jason was in that little farm town. Or Dick in the Rebirth annual. Aside from that, the Bats should just be mentioned at most within the Outlaws book.

  7. #3967
    Mighty Member RedBird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gotham citizen View Post
    I see, they weren't available.
    Anyway I named those characters because I thought it was a team of characters trained by Batman, but that they don't agree with his methods, because they think they are in a war and a war can be won only by the less scrupulous army.So I thought to Huntress, Orphan or Spoiler (if I remember well Batman said one of the two was too violent) and also Azrael (even if I don't know what happened to him) could be a good roster for this kind of title. In this way the title would have a very strong identity and the writers could have create some interesting stories, emphasizing the divergences among the Outlaws and Batman & Co (Nightwing, Batgirl…) with some crossover and/or some apparition of Batman & Co like guest star. I don't want say the book is without identity or the roster isn't good, because I read only the first ten issue, but this is what I thought the book was and I think it might be a good idea for a title.
    Within the roster of Outlaws, I'd say that having methods that differ from Batman is not the main connective tissue for the RHATO cast. It's more so that the characters are outcasts who can relate to each other more importantly on an emotional level, rather than a moral one. It's why they often have a strong family dynamic. Of course the morality of the characters is an important factor still and all of them having some moral ambiguity supports the whole 'outlaws' theme, but aside from Jason, the morality of the characters and the purpose of the book has never been something that solely revolved itself around Batman, and being the 'Batman and co' that the rest of the batfam could never be.

    Besides, if people really are after a 'Batman and Co'. book with a different cast, then that's what the 'Batman and the Outsiders' book is for. The only thing that book is missing is the Batman main cast guest stars, but the book is still in its early issues, so who knows, that may come eventually.

  8. #3968
    Spectacular Member Gotham citizen's Avatar
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    I understood that, I was simply explaining what I thought to find in the book; but that doesn't mean I don't love it, on the contrary I think it is good.

    P.S. Maybe if I had write I expected something between Punisher and the Outsiders, I would be more clear, but doesn't matter.
    «Let me get this straight: you kink that your client, […], is secretly a vigilante who spends his nights beating criminals to a pulp with his bare hands and your plan is to blackmail this person? Good luck.»

    «Joker is a violent and inartistic movie, not like that masterpiece of A Clockwork Orange.» Yes, some critic of the AMPAS was able to say that.

    «What weight 6 ounces, sits in a tree and is very dangerous?» «A sparrow with a machine gun!» from "Batman'66 the movie"

  9. #3969
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gotham citizen View Post
    I see, they weren't available.
    Anyway I named those characters because I thought it was a team of characters trained by Batman, but that they don't agree with his methods, because they think they are in a war and a war can be won only by the less scrupulous army. So I thought to Huntress, Orphan or Spoiler (if I remember well Batman said one of the two was too violent) and also Azrael (even if I don't know what happened to him) could be a good roster for this kind of title. In this way the title would have a very strong identity and the writers could have create some interesting stories, emphasizing the divergences among the Outlaws and Batman & Co (Nightwing, Batgirl…) with some crossover and/or some apparition of Batman & Co like guest star. I don't want say the book is without identity or the roster isn't good, because I read only the first ten issue, but this is what I thought the book was and I think it might be a good idea for a title.
    Huntress is the one Batman said was too violent, but that was in the 90s when she's still violently hunting mafia, seducing Nightwing, and trying hard to be acknowledged by Batman, prevented by both Bruce and her own personality. They're both stubborn. She got better, mellowed a bit, then actually considered part of the fam in the later years, but then the reboot happened.

    The current Huntress is also more violent than the people she teams up, but also older, more experienced, and has no interest in Batman. She started out as a high ranking spy, fell for Dick Grayson but called it off since she knows he only has eyes for Barbara Gordon, and then inspired to be a superhero to hunt down the mafia who killed her family, ended up in Gotham and joining the Birds of Prey.

    Batman found Spoiler too reckless and inexperienced in the 90s and wanted her to stop because she started to be Spoiler to arrest her father, but after he was arrested she's still acting vigilante. Post-reboot, she's had training by Tim, Dick, Catwoman, Batman himself and Batwoman, so he has no problem with her. She, however, has a problem with him because their method causes a lot of victims or more people turning into crime.

  10. #3970
    Mighty Member RedBird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gotham citizen View Post
    I understood that, I was simply explaining what I thought to find in the book; but that doesn't mean I don't love it, on the contrary I think it is good.

    P.S. Maybe if I had write I expected something between Punisher and the Outsiders, I would be more clear, but doesn't matter.
    Funny that, you know, 'Punisher and the Outsiders' sounds pretty close to what the book was going to be back when the New52 was being planned. If I recall correctly, (Dark feel free to correct me if I'm wrong ) Judd Winicks original pitch was much darker and grittier with what I can only assume was a much more heavy emphasis on the outlaws grey morality.

  11. #3971
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedBird View Post
    Funny that, you know, 'Punisher and the Outsiders' sounds pretty close to what the book was going to be back when the New52 was being planned. If I recall correctly, (Dark feel free to correct me if I'm wrong ) Judd Winicks original pitch was much darker and grittier with what I can only assume was a much more heavy emphasis on the outlaws grey morality.
    It sounds like the Outlaws book I wanted to read. (I didn't enjoy the New 52 Outlaws book because I was expecting something darker and grittier, though Starfire's presence should've clued me)

  12. #3972
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    At least in Kings Run Huntress is again portrait as part of the Batfamily.

    The biggest problem I see with such a team up is that most of the Batgirls have a pretty strong connection to one of the other Robins. Barbara and Helena with to Dick and Cass and Steph to Tim, so many fans would not be happy if they and up in team book with Jason.

    I but I would like to see more team up story arcs with Jason and Batfamily members he hasn't teamed up with yet (with Damian and Cass being the ones I would like to see most).

  13. #3973
    Mighty Member RedBird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    It sounds like the Outlaws book I wanted to read. (I didn't enjoy the New 52 Outlaws book because I was expecting something darker and grittier, though Starfire's presence should've clued me)
    I recall lamenting the same thing, but, in the end I don't think it would have worked out anyway. Winick left his DC titles early on in the New52 (sometime mid 2012 if I recall) in order to pursue his aspirations to create more child friendly content. Rhato probably would have been left hanging anyway.

  14. #3974
    Caperucita Roja Zaresh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    It sounds like the Outlaws book I wanted to read. (I didn't enjoy the New 52 Outlaws book because I was expecting something darker and grittier, though Starfire's presence should've clued me)
    Of what I remember, it sounded so edgy and forced the characters so much, that it was definitely the book I didn't want to read. Jason by Winick was bordering the levels of violence and clenched edges I can tolerate; but as far as I recall, the idea was just too much. Not that it didn't make sense for him: this was pre-FP Jason, red head Jason, if I'¡m not mistaken. But, eh....
    If I were to like a Punisher-esque book, I would read Punisher. Which I don't, because I usually don't like. You guys know well that I hate when people compare both, so I guess it comes as a surprise to none here. But ey, I do like vigilantes, hardboiled, tough, morally grey ones. I mean, I'm all for Moon Knight, or The Shadow, stuff like that. Look at the Tales of franchise: Yuri is by far my favourite main character (because he's just that cool and felt definitely different), but Velvet? Too much, felt like the dream of an angsty teenager.
    Last edited by Zaresh; 12-11-2019 at 05:50 AM.
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  15. #3975
    Mighty Member RedBird's Avatar
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    My bad. Ignore this post.
    Last edited by RedBird; 12-11-2019 at 10:05 AM.

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