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  1. #3316
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    https://comicbook.com/dc/2019/09/21/batman-new-team-bringing-back-nightwing/


    Exactly when no, but my guess is right after the Talon arc or April 2020 right on Dick Grayson 80th anniversary... which... is he gonna become Talon next month? That will fit 6 issues before April. If I'm DC that's how I'm gonna do it.
    I belive in December by solicits
    Know the pacing has been awful 10 pages to get across town
    I miss his double Shipping

  2. #3317
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    I belive in December by solicits
    Know the pacing has been awful 10 pages to get across town
    I miss his double Shipping
    Hmm… six issues later then. May? So June?
    How many issues are the collective Talon story? Starting from when Cobb started appearing?

  3. #3318
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    From King's Twitter

    @A_Flying_Wonder: Is Dick getting his memories back something that has to happen in your run as part of the ongoing Batman vs Bane conclusion, or is that solely in the hands of the Nightwing team?

    Tom King: All that is out of my hands. Wish I could’ve done more Dick work here at the end.

    *Deep breath*

    Tracking down who's responsible for what in the great Ric Grayson saga is like detective work in itself. Has there ever been a character that change hands more often in one year than him?

    King shot him
    Percy created Ric
    Lobdell insisted Ric continues
    Editorial allowed it
    Jurgens biding time
    Someone wanted him to be Talon
    Someone wanted him to only be back next year
    Tynion or maybe whoever's bringing him back

    I have to divide my annoyance to at least five people!
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 09-22-2019 at 09:20 AM.

  4. #3319
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    From King's Twitter

    @A_Flying_Wonder: Is Dick getting his memories back something that has to happen in your run as part of the ongoing Batman vs Bane conclusion, or is that solely in the hands of the Nightwing team?

    Tom King: All that is out of my hands. Wish I could’ve done more Dick work here at the end.

    *Deep breath*

    Tracking down who's responsible for what in the great Ric Grayson saga is like detective work in itself. Has there ever been a character that change hands more often in one year than him?

    King shot him
    Percy created Ric
    Lobdell insisted Ric continues
    Editorial allowed it
    Jurgens biding time
    Someone wanted him to be Talon
    Someone wanted him to only be back next year
    Tynion or maybe whoever's bringing him back

    I have to divide my annoyance to at least five people!

    Seems to me the ones culpable are:

    King who shot him and whose story needed Dick to be benched until at least BatCat were ready to take back the city. Lobdell might have campaigned but Dick would have still been benched right now even if he hadn't because King's story needs him to be.

    Editorial for letting this go on knowing fans were unhappy. Knowing that Ric wasn't the only way to keep him unavailable. Get creative. No respecting the character enough to demand this development be used to explore the character deeper. Really get to the heart of the character. Allowing storylines that basically mock the character like Ric becoming a side kick to a bunch of randos after saying he didn't want to be a hero.

    It could have been handled better.

    Whoever introduced Ric working for the nightwings

  5. #3320
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    Seems to me the ones culpable are:

    King who shot him and whose story needed Dick to be benched until at least BatCat were ready to take back the city. Lobdell might have campaigned but Dick would have still been benched right now even if he hadn't because King's story needs him to be.

    Editorial for letting this go on knowing fans were unhappy. Knowing that Ric wasn't the only way to keep him unavailable. Get creative. No respecting the character enough to demand this development be used to explore the character deeper. Really get to the heart of the character. Allowing storylines that basically mock the character like Ric becoming a side kick to a bunch of randos after saying he didn't want to be a hero.

    It could have been handled better.

    Whoever introduced Ric working for the nightwings
    Oh right I didn't mention it in the list. Editorial at first wasn't convinced that Ric will last long. They thought it'll be three issues top, but then Lobdell want to explore it, so they allow it.

  6. #3321

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    Quote Originally Posted by nightbird View Post


    One spoiler clip from new episode of Titans show, but I really liked how they showcased a bit of Dickís fighting style here.
    He also made Jason kiss the floor in just two seconds, when he tried to attack him by using some defensive fighting techniques.
    So in some ways they actually getting his fighting style better this season. Itís good too see that Titans in both seasons established that Dick is a powerhouse when it comes to martial arts.
    I noticed this about the show, it's one of the few places we actually get to see Dick respected as a fighter (since we rarely see Dick do much fighting on screen in YJO). Last time I felt that was Nightwing #24 of Seeley's run.

  7. #3322
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Oh right I didn't mention it in the list. Editorial at first wasn't convinced that Ric will last long. They thought it'll be three issues top, but then Lobdell want to explore it, so they allow it.
    I find that hard to believe since it contradicts King's whole Tim becoming Nightwing and helping Dick. Surely that needs more than 3 issues not to mention that King's story would be slightly different if Dick was a factor. For a start it's much more difficult to justify the beach issues had Batman had an ally of Dick's level and expertise around to intercept the venom for him for example

  8. #3323
    Anyone. Anywhere.Anytime. Arsenal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    I find that hard to believe since it contradicts King's whole Tim becoming Nightwing and helping Dick. Surely that needs more than 3 issues not to mention that King's story would be slightly different if Dick was a factor. For a start it's much more difficult to justify the beach issues had Batman had an ally of Dick's level and expertise around to intercept the venom for him for example
    Nah, the whole “we’re the message” thing doesn’t work if it comes from Dick (or any of the half a dozen people Bruce has on speed dial that are equally as capable as handling the operation)

    If anything, Dick’s presence would make it easier to justify them since they could frame it as Dick back in Gotham holding it down and getting everybody prepared while Bruce gets his shit together.

  9. #3324
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arsenal View Post
    Nah, the whole “we’re the message” thing doesn’t work if it comes from Dick (or any of the half a dozen people Bruce has on speed dial that are equally as capable as handling the operation)

    If anything, Dick’s presence would make it easier to justify them since they could frame it as Dick back in Gotham holding it down and getting everybody prepared while Bruce gets his shit together.
    You make a very good point.

  10. #3325
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    I find that hard to believe since it contradicts King's whole Tim becoming Nightwing and helping Dick. Surely that needs more than 3 issues not to mention that King's story would be slightly different if Dick was a factor. For a start it's much more difficult to justify the beach issues had Batman had an ally of Dick's level and expertise around to intercept the venom for him for example
    Tim Nightwing was never the plan. That was King talking about how he would have handled it if it was his responsibility. But it was always out of his hands.
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


  11. #3326
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    I find that hard to believe since it contradicts King's whole Tim becoming Nightwing and helping Dick. Surely that needs more than 3 issues not to mention that King's story would be slightly different if Dick was a factor. For a start it's much more difficult to justify the beach issues had Batman had an ally of Dick's level and expertise around to intercept the venom for him for example
    The one who said DC editorial didn't believe in Ric was Lobdell himself who in the same interview said it was him who want to explore Ric.

    So first King prepared two options. Cure his wound with Zatanna if DC allow the story to be short or make Tim Nightwing if DC want Dick incapacitated longer, but then of course later Bendis is using Tim so he can't use that one anyway.

    At this point King didn't know what DC will allow, and I don't think he even came up with the amnesia idea either because Ben Percy was preparing the vertigo story.

    At this point they're just thinking Dick will be incapacitated but there's no Ric yet, and they didn't know how long.

    Then whoever at DC decided on amnesia, so Percy changed the story and created Ric, and after they saw Ric, Bat editor(s) believed it won't last long, but then Lobdell came, and he convinced them to make it last longer.
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 09-22-2019 at 12:28 PM.

  12. #3327
    Incredible Member Katana500's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arsenal View Post
    Nah, the whole “we’re the message” thing doesn’t work if it comes from Dick (or any of the half a dozen people Bruce has on speed dial that are equally as capable as handling the operation)

    If anything, Dick’s presence would make it easier to justify them since they could frame it as Dick back in Gotham holding it down and getting everybody prepared while Bruce gets his shit together.
    I guess if Dick was still in the picture. It could have been justified with Bruce being anxious and not wanting to risk him again especially if he was suffering Vertigo as was the original plan. So stuff probably wouldn't be all that different.

  13. #3328
    Mighty Member nightbird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grayson - The Dark Heir View Post
    I noticed this about the show, it's one of the few places we actually get to see Dick respected as a fighter (since we rarely see Dick do much fighting on screen in YJO). Last time I felt that was Nightwing #24 of Seeley's run.
    Titans as whole in my opinion handled all aspects about Dick’s training good. While comics, games and DCU animation loves to sh*t on him regularly. And God forbid for Dick to win any fight and to be useful and respected in DCU animation.

  14. #3329
    Spectacular Member Schumiac's Avatar
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    In the BleedingCool news about Nightwing's return someone actually posted this comment:

    No No No.
    I was there and Dan Didio said they're working on bringing Dick back cause they got big plans for next year and need him for that. They said nothing about him being a part of Tynion's Batman. Tynion only mentioned Lucius Fox specifically as a character he intends to use.
    Feels almost surreal that Didio would want Dick involved in their big plans. Except maybe the big plans involve killing him off and sending Bruce in a rage, because that is original.Or he and some of the other Titans get captured by the big bad and it is very stressful for the JL big leaguers.... *rolleyes*

  15. #3330
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    The one who said DC editorial didn't believe in Ric was Lobdell himself who in the same interview said it was him who want to explore Ric.

    So first King prepared two options. Cure his wound with Zatanna if DC allow the story to be short or make Tim Nightwing if DC want Dick incapacitated longer, but then of course later Bendis is using Tim so he can't use that one anyway.

    At this point King didn't know what DC will allow, and I don't think he even came up with the amnesia idea either because Ben Percy was preparing the vertigo story.

    At this point they're just thinking Dick will be incapacitated but there's no Ric yet, and they didn't know how long.

    Then whoever at DC decided on amnesia, so Percy changed the story and created Ric, and after they saw Ric, Bat editor(s) believed it won't last long, but then Lobdell came, and he convinced them to make it last longer.
    King didn't prepare anything for after he shot Dick. He only said that he told editorial that he was going to shoot Dick regardless if they cared or not and what they did afterwards with Dick was up to them. King had no involvement in it. He told them if they didn't want to deal with it then they could just have Zatanna fix Dick in Nightwing with a spell, or they could follow up on it. King didn't care since whatever they did it would have zero effect on King's own plans in Batman.

    Also the idea with Tim taking over as Nightwing was never an actual pitch made by King. It was just something he said would be interesting in a podcast, but it was never something he actually planned out or told editorial about. The only thing that we had evidence of was that Percy planned on giving Dick vertigo and was going to continue his Dark Web story before all that got scrapped. My guess is it got scrapped because they needed Dick out of the way for King's Batman story and just giving him vertigo wasn't enough, so they upped it to amnesia as a way to write him out of all the Batman books while King's story was going on.

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