Dick Grayson: Robin, Nightwing, Batman, Agent of Spyral Appreciation 2019

[Badou]

I know I shouldn't expect any better from 4chan, but that list is bs. It really waters the point down when half the list you use to make the point doesn't count for one reason or another.

For one, if the list is about the number of writers on Nightwing since Seeley's left, then why is Seeley on the list? Then there's counting Lanzing and Kelly as separate writers even though they co-wrote their issue together. And on top of that, Lanzing/Kelly and Moreci each only write a single tie-in issue, they have nothing to do with the greater point and are only being used to add numbers. Nicieza scripted several of Lobdell's issues, but since they worked together, they shouldn't count as separate writers. Esquivel is a scumbag and an abuser, we should be glad he dropped from the issue. And given that the issue was never released, he has not written for the book. His issue was co-written by Lobdell, who is still writing that issue.

The list should go:
-Humphries
-Percy
-Lobdell
-Jurgens

And now that list suddenly doesn't look so bad, given that it's 4 writers over 22 issues (22 because the 2 fill-in issues don't count towards this), although we don't know how many issues Jurgens is on for.

The problem with the book right now is the current status quo for the character, and that's coming directly from the editors. It doesn't matter how many writers are on the book, how often they change, or who the writer is, because the status quo will never be good.

Well I think you need to count Lanzing, Kelly, and Moreci. They were writers on the Nightwing book. Their issues were basically inventory issues used to try and bridge the gap during the change over with the ongoing writers, but I think it would still count. Also I think you need to count the writers scripting too. It would technically look like this if you broke it down:

-Humphries (on for one arc)
-Lanzing & Kelly (one issue)
-Moreci (one issue)
-Percy (one arc + a few other issues)
-Lobdell & Nicieza (one arc + one mini arc that Esquivel was going to script when Nicieza left)
-Jurgens (unknown)

That is basically all within a year and a few months. That is a lot of cycling through creators. The problems do stem from the editors and upper management, no arguing that, but other writers see this won't want to get involved with this book given how messy it is. This kind of changeover is seriously damaging in terms of being able to attract creators. Seeley leaving because he got burnt out and frustrated with the book and Humphries leaving after 1 arc were noteworthy to me. This was all before King's plans of shooting Dick in the head, so I think the book was having problems for a while and they kind of hit the ceiling once Percy left after King fucked up his story. Then it has been DC editors and their reliable in-house writers churning out issues during the Ric arc.

[Frontier]

4chan leaked all the april solicits.
Lobdell is off, enter Dan Jurgens.

As someone pointed out in the 4chan boards.

Writers this book has had since Seeley left in Dec 2017.
>Tim Seeley
>Sam Humphries
> Jackson Lanzing
>Collin Kelly
>Michael Moreci
>Benjamin Percy
>Scott Lobdell
> Fabian Nicieza
>Eric Esquivel (fired before his issues released)
>Dan Jurgens

What a mess.

I feel bad for Jurgens getting stuck with this.

[Grayson - The Dark Heir]

Screenshot (27).jpg
So I was compiling sales data for fun months, and it's been kinda sitting to side for a bit. I haven't really gotten around to actually doing anything with it yet, like making graphs and looking for trends and such. And keep in mind that since I kinda just made this on a whim, that the chance for error is quite high lol. But what I just noticed as I was adding the numbers for #50-55, was that 26K is the current baseline...except it's been the baseline for quite a while, as Konja7 brought up. Looking back, the book has been selling very steadily aside from the odd spike (!), and that's not just during the Lobdell run, it's been that way during all of Percy's run. That 26K is indicative of the hardcore Dick Grayson fanbase, and I don't see DC cancelling the book as long as the book stays above the baseline. It's sad, but it is what it is.

Edit: I wish I knew how to make images bigger lol.

Well I think you need to count Lanzing, Kelly, and Moreci. They were writers on the Nightwing book. Their issues were basically inventory issues used to try and bridge the gap during the change over with the ongoing writers, but I think it would still count. Also I think you need to count the writers scripting too. It would technically look like this if you broke it down:

-Humphries (on for one arc)
-Lanzing & Kelly (one issue)
-Moreci (one issue)
-Percy (one arc + a few other issues)
-Lobdell & Nicieza (one arc + one mini arc that Esquivel was going to script when Nicieza left)
-Jurgens (unknown)

That is basically all within a year and a few months. That is a lot of cycling through creators. The problems do stem from the editors and upper management, no arguing that, but other writers see this won't want to get involved with this book given how messy it is. This kind of changeover is seriously damaging in terms of being able to attract creators. Seeley leaving because he got burnt out and frustrated with the book and Humphries leaving after 1 arc were noteworthy to me. This was all before King's plans of shooting Dick in the head, so I think the book was having problems for a while and they kind of hit the ceiling once Percy left after King fucked up his story. Then it has been DC editors and their reliable in-house writers churning out issues during the Ric arc.

What point are you making by counting inventory issues? That books shouldn't have inventory issues because it means changing writers? It just has no bearing on the larger point, that the book is scrambling for writers. They used the fill-ins because they were planning a big splash with Percy. Humphries was on the Nightwing book specifically for 7 issues because that's what they wanted, he was always going to write Harley Quinn. Humphries was essentially a fill-in, too, we just didn't know it at the start because he never stated his plans beyond the 7 issues (we now know it's because he had no plans, and he was thinking about his HQ run instead). Ultimately, if DC instead chose to go a month with no Nightwing, and relaunch with Percy instead, the book would still be in the gutter it is right now. It was the editors stepping on Percy that started it all.

But all of that aside, your breakdown works much better at illustrating the point. Although I have to wonder where this Esquivel mini-arc thing is coming from, is this known info? I missed it, if so. And I'm glad we didn't get it, tbh.

[Badou]

Just realized that Jurgens is writing Batman Beyond (probably why they went to him to write Nightwing as he already is in the Batman office like Lobdell), and introduced some future version of Dick who is Mayor of Bludhaven (kill me now) with a daughter. Wonder if Jurgens is going to try and put in any of his Beyond stuff during his Nightwing stint since apparently Jurgens thinks his Beyond story is completely canon.

But all of that aside, your breakdown works much better at illustrating the point. Although I have to wonder where this Esquivel mini-arc thing is coming from, is this known info? I missed it, if so. And I'm glad we didn't get it, tbh.

Yes, the Joker's Daughter arc (the arc after Scarecrow we are about to start which is #57-58) was supposed to be plotted by Lobdell and scripted by Esquivel. Just like how Lobdell worked together with Nicieza for the Scarecrow arc. Lobdell wasn't writing the book himself and when Nicieza declined to help write 57-58 DC needed someone else to help and they went to Esquivel, maybe with plans that Esquivel would take over after the Joker's Daughter arc but who knows. So no idea if Esquivel's scripts will be used as it is all based off Lobdell's plot.

[yohyoi]

I feel bad for Jurgens getting stuck with this.

I feel bad for everyone involved. Fans are annoyed and angry as hell, and DC won't listen. Bad times... Nightwing needs a miracle to get out of this mess.

[K7P5V]

Which episodes of BTAS would worthwhile for Dick fans? I think the Nightwingies are hanging around until Didio can justify canceling the book.

Robin's Reckoning part 1 & 2 is my all-time favorite version of Dick's origin.

Don't forget Christmas with the Joker and If You're So Smart, Why Aren't You Rich?. Also Fear of Victory is damn good. There are more but these are probably my favorites.

I remember this comic .

All the Batgirl episodes are great.

Totally agree, especially Over the Edge.

[yohyoi]

4chan leaked all the april solicits.
Lobdell is off, enter Dan Jurgens.

As someone pointed out in the 4chan boards.

Writers this book has had since Seeley left in Dec 2017.
>Tim Seeley
>Sam Humphries
> Jackson Lanzing
>Collin Kelly
>Michael Moreci
>Benjamin Percy
>Scott Lobdell
> Fabian Nicieza
>Eric Esquivel (fired before his issues released)
>Dan Jurgens

What a mess.

When 4chan sees something as a mess, it has gone beyond a mess and is now a catastrophe. Nightwing is that drug addict you are expecting to OD anyday now. It isn't pretty.

[yohyoi]

Also Titans is finally cancelled. Thank the Lord. I don't have to keep correcting people that isn't Dick with a Green Lantern ring, but Kyle. Dick isn't a Green Lantern.

[yohyoi]

I'm amazed Nightwing is still selling over 20k. I only heard bad things from people these past months. It's up there with Hydra Cap.

[byrd156]

I feel bad for Jurgens getting stuck with this.

I think Jurgens can pull an alright story out of nowhere.

[9th.]

4chan leaked all the april solicits.
Lobdell is off, enter Dan Jurgens.

As someone pointed out in the 4chan boards.

Writers this book has had since Seeley left in Dec 2017.
>Tim Seeley
>Sam Humphries
> Jackson Lanzing
>Collin Kelly
>Michael Moreci
>Benjamin Percy
>Scott Lobdell
> Fabian Nicieza
>Eric Esquivel (fired before his issues released)
>Dan Jurgens

What a mess.

Theres a black Nightwing now? Whats going on in this picture?

[byrd156]

Theres a black Nightwing now? Whats going on in this picture?

Read and find out.

[Godlike13]

Jurgens, alright. Better then what we got i guess. Why are they still continuing with this We Are Nightwing crap though. We Are Robin bombed, and this is a poorer imitation. And Mooneyham still. Whatever.

[nightbird]

Yasmine Putri still one of the best Nightwing variant cover artist... That’s it.

Just how Nightwing’s book so fast turned into completely unreadable mess. And I liked this series so much at the start of Rebirth...

[Se7en]

Why does he look like a Punisher reject in that cover...How messy did the book became lol