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  1. #4051
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    I don't know if derailing Nightwing and Titans is a testament to his power, but more a result of how insignificant Nightwing and Titans is to the comic division. I don't buy that King could have stepped in and go "hey, i know you guys decided to run with this, but what your buddy Lobdell is doing has been shit. So im gonna undo it now.". After he shot Dick i think it was out of his hands. Which is bullshit, don't get me wrong. Cause to do something like that and then just wash your hand of it is frustrating to say the least. Especially when what others then did with it was such terrible shit. But here is the the thing, no one has stepped in with Ric for 2 years now. Which is crazy given how usually Nightwing can't even fart uninterrupted. Not with Ric though. Despite all time lows Ric is going to out last Grayson. Ric and his creators are oddly protected.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 12-03-2019 at 11:19 PM.

  2. #4052
    Ultimate Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPSparkles View Post
    The main robins +Cass



    https://kaylabeemarie.tumblr.com
    Nice touch with those numbers - the last two digits of their debut years. That's the only way I could tell that was Cass actually - she doesn't usually wear pink dresses and ponytails!

    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Oh yeah, he's brainwashed to think that he's always a Talon and as a Talon he killed Bruce Wayne during Court of Owls as Cobb's backup... which doesn't really make sense since even in Bludhaven he can just see the news and Bruce is alive? Or I misread that part of the spoilers? Whatever. I don't care. They already used the wrong continuity for how Dick's parent's died I'm not gonna care about that part.
    You mean it didn't match New 52? The current stuff seems to be a direct sequel to the first arc of the New 52 Nightwing series.
    Last edited by Digifiend; 12-03-2019 at 05:21 PM.
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  3. #4053
    Spectacular Member Schumiac's Avatar
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    I dont think they are protected. DC just has no idea what to do with Dick right now in light of what is going on in Batman universe so they are just holding onto Ric, at least till the Bane debacle in Batman ends and Batman universe as a whole goes into rebuild mode.He will probably return at some point as part of that "things going back to normal" routine. And as Ric is simply useless and basically a sidekick to wanna-be amateur Nightwings running around in his old costumes there is absolutely nothing any outside writer can do with him or want with him. So we are stuck with Ric in our isolated corner till Bat office decides Dick's presence as his real self is no longer an inconvenience to their larger tale and plans...

    Tbh, part of me is glad Dick/Nightwing had nothing to do with the suckfest that was City of Bane and got to sit it out. I just wish Ric wasnt so boring and whiny though.

  4. #4054
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Nice touch with those numbers - the last two digits of their debut years. That's the only way I could tell that was Cass actually - she doesn't usually wear pink dresses and ponytails!

    You mean it didn't match New 52? The current stuff seems to be a direct sequel to the first arc of the New 52 Nightwing series.
    The origin? They're using ASBAR where his parents got shot instead of acid on the trapeze rope

  5. #4055
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schumiac View Post
    If I am a writer and given freedom to do whatever I want, chances are I would do it. King didn't mean for the headshot to be permanent, he just needed to render a big emotional blow to the character he was writing and this was one of the ways. He even meant for it to be fixed immediately if DC wanted. DC didn't want it. DC made the decision to allow a writer to walk all over another writer who had plans for the character and book he was writing for, because for them King is their special snowflake and can do anything he wants. Then they allowed Ric to last this long because a writer who had absolute zero interest in writing the story insisted it would be a good story and route for the character. All of it was extremely disrespectful and says a lot about how Dc has zero idea about what to do with Nightwing and how little value they give him. I blame DC for it though. If you let your kids play with something they shouldn't and they end up breaking it, you as the parent are the real one to blame, after all.
    I disagree completely. King has the pull at DC to shoot Dick in the head and even kill Alfred. If he wanted to he could have easily followed up this story he set up by writing it in his own Batman title. There was nothing stopping him, but he didn't do that. King shot Dick in the head and then completely ignored the character afterwards. He didn't show the character once. That isn't on editorial, but on King. It isn't like he didn't have room given how dragged out his Batman book became after issue #50.

    He could have taken control of the situation by writing it in his own Batman book and then letting the Nightwing and Titans book take reference from him, but he didn't care. Dick's fallout wasn't what he was concerned with. Instead of just giving editorial a pitch about Tim as Nightwing and then just ignoring Ric when they did that instead he could have had a bigger plan in place from the start when he shot him in the head instead of just putting it all on editorial. He only wanted to shoot Dick not because he had a story planned out for Dick, but because he wanted to throw Dick under the bus for Bruce's development and because of his lack of planning that lead to over 18 months of Ric now.

    King should have known better too given how the Grayson series even came about. Johns did the same fucking thing. He exposed Dick's ID to the world for shock value after dragging his character into that Forever Evil event completely derailing his own title and direction, and had zero plan or interest in following any of that up. Just passed it along to editorial, but somehow the stars aligned and we got the Grayson series. That was kind of an accident and we can't expect that to happen every time Dick gets his direction messed with like that. King being involved in that before would make you think he would have taken more care with doing things for shock value and having no plan or interest in following them up.

  6. #4056
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    The latest Batman issue is a good example of what I was talking about. It was basically a recap of King's run going through all the big moments in his Batman series mostly regarding Thomas' history. Him deciding to shoot Dick in the head and kill him with KGBeast didn't make the cut of important moments. Even though it derailed Dick's character for over 18 months now that moment turned out to be such an insignificant thing in King's Batman story where King can just ignore it and nothing from his story changes. King could have had that moment mean a lot more in his Batman run and fleshed it out, but he chose not to. That is on him and not editorial.

  7. #4057
    Astonishing Member Fergus's Avatar
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    DC is trash. wARNING deathstroke spoilers


    spoilers:
    Just saw a panel from Deathstroke 50 Damian shoots Dick in the head

    end of spoilers
    Last edited by Fergus; 12-04-2019 at 04:06 AM.

  8. #4058
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fergus View Post
    DC is trash. wARNING deathstroke spoilers


    spoilers:
    Just saw a panel from Deathstroke 50 Damian shoots Dick in the head

    end of spoilers
    I haven't read much Deathstroke, but I think this takes place in a different universe. I'm still not a fan of how Priest writes Damian though.

  9. #4059
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    spoilers:
    It’s a different reality. Where Deathstroke brain washed Wonder Woman and presumably Damian to be his new family
    end of spoilers

  10. #4060

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    The only Deathstroke I've read was "Deathstroke: Arkham," but honestly it felt like a parody of (or protest against), more than a participant in, the Kingverse, with all is deflated males and manipulative shock episodes.

    If Priest had gotten the next Batman run, I'd already be subscribed.
    Last edited by johnpeelgothisgun; 12-04-2019 at 01:01 PM.

  11. #4061
    Ultimate Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    King should have known better too given how the Grayson series even came about. Johns did the same fucking thing. He exposed Dick's ID to the world for shock value after dragging his character into that Forever Evil event completely derailing his own title and direction, and had zero plan or interest in following any of that up. Just passed it along to editorial, but somehow the stars aligned and we got the Grayson series. That was kind of an accident and we can't expect that to happen every time Dick gets his direction messed with like that. King being involved in that before would make you think he would have taken more care with doing things for shock value and having no plan or interest in following them up.
    He was outed? Did Spyral make the world forget then? I know Dick faked his death, but that wouldn't have restored his secret identity when he went back to being Nightwing in Rebirth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    The origin? They're using ASBAR where his parents got shot instead of acid on the trapeze rope
    That's weird, since William Cobb, the Talon who brainwashed Dick last issue, was introduced in that first New 52 arc - if the old origin is back, then that should've excised the whole Court of Owls connection to the circus - which means Cobb's own origin has been erased. Looks like an editor dropped the ball here.
    Last edited by Digifiend; 12-04-2019 at 01:49 PM.
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  12. #4062
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    He was outed? Did Spyral make the world forget then? I know Dick faked his death, but that wouldn't have restored his secret identity when he went back to being Nightwing in Rebirth.
    In the Forever Evil event the Crime Syndicate captured and unmasked Nightwing live on TV. Then Grid took over every electronic device on Earth and rebroadcast that moment over and over again for days including news articles about Dick's being in the circus and his parents dying. It is the most extensive "unmasking" of a hero I've ever seen. Even Lex Luthor figured out Batman was Bruce from it in the event.

    Then it was basically all ignored. It had zero effect on Bruce or any other DC hero and Johns never followed any of this up. They just shoved Dick into the Grayson series to get him out of the way and came up with the idea of Dick faking his death for some reason. Even though him faking his death was never set up in the Forever Evil event and his unmasking was never brought up again. Even in the Grayson series it was barely mentioned. How DC tricked people into thinking Dick "dying" was the bigger story than his unmasking still confounds me.

    When Rebirth was scheduled to happen they decided to hand wave away the whole unmasking story and reset Dick's character. They said Spyral had a secret spy satellite that could erase the memories of everyone on Earth about Dick's ID being exposed except for the people Dick still wanted to know, like the Batman family, and that is how they undid the story before Rebirth happened.

  13. #4063
    Spectacular Member Schumiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    I disagree completely. King has the pull at DC to shoot Dick in the head and even kill Alfred. If he wanted to he could have easily followed up this story he set up by writing it in his own Batman title. There was nothing stopping him, but he didn't do that. King shot Dick in the head and then completely ignored the character afterwards. He didn't show the character once. That isn't on editorial, but on King. It isn't like he didn't have room given how dragged out his Batman book became after issue #50.

    He could have taken control of the situation by writing it in his own Batman book and then letting the Nightwing and Titans book take reference from him, but he didn't care. Dick's fallout wasn't what he was concerned with. Instead of just giving editorial a pitch about Tim as Nightwing and then just ignoring Ric when they did that instead he could have had a bigger plan in place from the start when he shot him in the head instead of just putting it all on editorial. He only wanted to shoot Dick not because he had a story planned out for Dick, but because he wanted to throw Dick under the bus for Bruce's development and because of his lack of planning that lead to over 18 months of Ric now.

    King should have known better too given how the Grayson series even came about. Johns did the same fucking thing. He exposed Dick's ID to the world for shock value after dragging his character into that Forever Evil event completely derailing his own title and direction, and had zero plan or interest in following any of that up. Just passed it along to editorial, but somehow the stars aligned and we got the Grayson series. That was kind of an accident and we can't expect that to happen every time Dick gets his direction messed with like that. King being involved in that before would make you think he would have taken more care with doing things for shock value and having no plan or interest in following them up.
    See, that's the thing though. NONE of the writers could do any of that to Dick if DC editorial didn't let them. King only cared for the shock-value and got what he wanted. Yes. And he was done. What DC did with Nightwing afterwards was up to them. It is not like DC is trying to fix things with Nightwing and King is using his pull to stop them. He is not in the equation anymore, the ongoing Ric debacle is DC's own doing. They are the ones who OKed Lobdell's horrid idea (despite the fact he wasn't even going to write it himself). They are the ones who are still keeping Ric around (which lead to Bendis needing to sub Huntress for Nightwing in his, because he couldn't use Dick.).As long as DC editorial's treatment of Nightwing doesn't change this will keep happening. If it isn't King, it will be someone else who will derail the character and do with him whatever they want and then discard him. And his ongoing will keep getting hijacked for "more important" stories. This is why ultimately the problem for me is the DC editorial and the blame goes to them. Doesn't mean I am not bothered at the disrespect writers show their colleagues and the character. I am. It is why I don't want King writing Nightwing, don't care if he is a "big name" or not, his style of "no care for characters, just want to be shocking" writing is not something I like or am impressed with..

  14. #4064
    Spectacular Member Schumiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fergus View Post
    DC is trash. wARNING deathstroke spoilers


    spoilers:
    Just saw a panel from Deathstroke 50 Damian shoots Dick in the head

    end of spoilers
    ugh Dc. Wonder if it is an "inside" joke now as they do seem to get a kick out of angry fan reactions.

  15. #4065
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    He was outed? Did Spyral make the world forget then? I know Dick faked his death, but that wouldn't have restored his secret identity when he went back to being Nightwing in Rebirth.

    That's weird, since William Cobb, the Talon who brainwashed Dick last issue, was introduced in that first New 52 arc - if the old origin is back, then that should've excised the whole Court of Owls connection to the circus - which means Cobb's own origin has been erased. Looks like an editor dropped the ball here.
    The acid on the rope has always been the cause of death. It's never changed. New 52 only added The Court element and aging Dick up to 16. As of Rebirth, he's back to a kid again when he started living in the Manor, but The Court element stays. This annual is the first time they use the shooting in ASBAR instead of the classic acid.

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