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  1. #3436
    Constant in Opal Nine Crocodile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    This was the early 90s right? Mulletwing era? Before Knightfall? Knightfall was ponytail era.
    What was Babs doing at that time? Was she Oracle yet?

    You mean he's keeping Nightwing save from being a suspect or perpetrator in Crisis, Leviathan, Infected, or any big future event that requires a victim or a villain? Hard to buy, DDO, considering other series are running just fine and he ends up being a Talon anyway.
    Babs as Oracle debuted in the late '80s, so yeah.

    I would not be surprised if O'Neil really didn't know what to do with Dick, as he was too busy changing the continuity to diminish his role in the DCU.

  2. #3437
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nine Crocodile View Post
    Babs as Oracle debuted in the late '80s, so yeah.

    I would not be surprised if O'Neil really didn't know what to do with Dick, as he was too busy changing the continuity to diminish his role in the DCU.
    Well if Babs is Oracle I can see how she can be more useful. Dick's skill set is too similar to Batman and Robin so without Titans to lead he doesn't have a unique spot aside from being an extra helping hand. A supporting cast to the fam. The problem of his niche already started as far back as then huh.

  3. #3438
    Constant in Opal Nine Crocodile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Well if Babs is Oracle I can see how she can be more useful. Dick's skill set is too similar to Batman and Robin so without Titans to lead he doesn't have a unique spot aside from being an extra helping hand. A supporting cast to the fam. The problem of his niche already started as far back as then huh.
    It did not start with DiDio.

    It's easy to forget that Dick debuted before any other Bat-character of significance except Jim Gordon and Julie Madison (and Hugo Strange and the Monk, if you consider them important). Before the Joker, Catwoman, even Alfred. He was crucial early on. That changed under O'Neil.

  4. #3439
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    Before he was chief editor he was responsible for Bronze Age Batman who was immortalised by BTAS later too. And NTT happened BECAUSE the batoffice had not known what to do with Dick in the 70s. They "wanted him back" only when NTT stopped being the series that saved DC from bankrupt, just to repeat that sentiment.

  5. #3440
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    Since the New 52 started there has been a lack of care or a disinterest in using the character, imo. With DC just constantly undermining the character and not caring about his direction. It is still the same people in charge running things and deciding what direction to pull Nightwing's character into now. So I don't really expect anything to change since I've been given zero evidence to believe it will.

    He has zero agency in DC and is never used as the driver of a bigger story. It has been a pattern of Dick stuck in his solo series cut off from nearly everyone telling small stories, and then he gets dragged into another character's book or story to fuel their narrative instead of his own. He never spearheads any bigger story, book or event. Then he gets thrown back into his own book with whatever creative team on it at the time to deal with the fallout while the main character or story that dragged Dick in ignores it all. There was some shitty Titans book thrown in there too where he was completely ineffectual, but it is better if we ignore that.

    I mean the only time I think since the New 52 where it felt like DC had something BIG planned for the character was in Forever Evil. I remember all the discussions back then for it. Everyone thought DC was going to finally use the character on a bigger scale again. Dick was finally going to be involved in the DCU in a big JL event written by Johns. The opening issue even had Dick's ID being exposed to the world and surely this would be a big DCU issue going forward, right? Owlman even had some special interest in Dick that would be important too we thought.

    But it was all nothing. Johns was a complete disappointment and seemed to have no interest in actually writing the character beyond just having him be chained to a chair the whole time. Then they ignored the ID stuff and by a complete accident due to them contracting both King and Seeley we ended up with the Grayson series. It wasn't even a planned thing. The best Dick story we got since the New 52 was a complete accident.

    When you look at the last handful of years at all of DC's "big" or "important" stories Dick has been irrelevant. Completely irrelevant. He isn't an important figure in the DCU and he has zero weight behind his actions now. There are no creators or anyone that has a real interest in the character. Like you look at something like the Three Jokers story by Johns and Fabok and you see them building this big story and promoting it. Jason or a Barbara are heavily used in that promotion and are being billed as having important roles in this story DC is pushing. Even look at Bendis' Leviathan event and see how Jason is being used in that, or how Priest wanted to do a Batman vs Deathstroke story and DC decided to instead turn it into a big thing. Dick hasn't had anything like that. So even when the Ric story ends and Dick is Nightwing again I don't really expect any real improvement because the character is still stuck in a place where he isn't that valued and has no writers that are backing him.

    Brah I did not need all this I have been here on this forum for qite a bit

    But I dont want to be miserable all the time so the tiniest bit of good faith helps me

  6. #3441
    Incredible Member astro@work's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    "DiDio says that the events of the Batman books will have ramifications for Nightwing as well."

    Oh, big surprise. That's literally what you always do!

    https://www.newsarama.com/47203-nycc...dan-didio.html
    ..that's actually the whole problem. The question is, when are they going to FIX it?

    The ramifications of the Batbooks on Nightwing have been that:
    -Dick doesn't get to be Nightwing.
    -The history of an iconic 80 year old property is ignored
    -Apparently doesn't bathe anymore.
    -Doesn't get to be a member of the TT where he has gotten far more storyline over the years than in the Batbooks.

    Can the events of the Batbooks please NOT have ramifications on Dick? Pretty please?

  7. #3442
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhienphan2808 View Post
    Before he was chief editor he was responsible for Bronze Age Batman who was immortalised by BTAS later too. And NTT happened BECAUSE the batoffice had not known what to do with Dick in the 70s. They "wanted him back" only when NTT stopped being the series that saved DC from bankrupt, just to repeat that sentiment.
    Okay, next question. What happened to NTT?

    Quote Originally Posted by astro@work View Post
    ..that's actually the whole problem. The question is, when are they going to FIX it?

    The ramifications of the Batbooks on Nightwing have been that:
    -Dick doesn't get to be Nightwing.
    -The history of an iconic 80 year old property is ignored
    -Apparently doesn't bathe anymore.
    -Doesn't get to be a member of the TT where he has gotten far more storyline over the years than in the Batbooks.

    Can the events of the Batbooks please NOT have ramifications on Dick? Pretty please?
    Based on the answer above, we're late by 30 years. Now it's the norm.

    This discussion has reaffirmed that I should just stick to Pre Crisis for now

  8. #3443
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    Brah I did not need all this I have been here on this forum for qite a bit

    But I dont want to be miserable all the time so the tiniest bit of good faith helps me
    Yeah, I know. It was more be just putting my own thought into a post just to get it out there.

  9. #3444
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Alright. Since I'm done over at the DC new timeline thread, here's my report

    Generation 2 Year 1 Batman and Superman debuts
    Generation 2 Year 3 Dick Grayson debuts as Robin
    Generation 2 Year 6 Teen Titans debut
    Generation 2 Year 15 Dick Grayson debuts as Nightwing
    Generation 4 Year 1 Dick Grayson debuts as Batman alongside Damian as Robin

    Generation 1 is 25 years
    Generation 2 is 15 years
    Generation 3 is 15 years
    Generation 4 is 5 years

    That's all I can read about Dick.
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 10-04-2019 at 02:09 PM.

  10. #3445
    Astonishing Member OBrianTallent's Avatar
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    Just watched the newest Titans episode. They gave Dick a pretty good showing I thought (same with Kori...wow.)

  11. #3446
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Alright. Since I'm done over at the DC new timeline thread, here's my report

    Generation 2 Year 1 Batman and Superman debuts
    Generation 2 Year 3 Dick Grayson debuts as Robin
    Generation 2 Year 6 Teen Titans debut
    Generation 2 Year 15 Dick Grayson debuts as Nightwing
    Generation 4 Year 1 Dick Grayson debuts as Batman alongside Damian as Robin

    Generation 1 is 25 years
    Generation 2 is 15 years
    Generation 3 is 15 years
    Generation 4 is 5 years

    That's all I can read about Dick.
    So how old is duck according to this

  12. #3447
    Mighty Member WonderNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    So how old is duck according to this
    If he became Robin at 12 he'd be like 50.

  13. #3448
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    It still doesn't make any sense to me. Like they have the pre Crisis New Teen Titans series, but also the Abnett Rebirth Titans series. Each of those series have stories that contradict each other. They can't exist at the same time. So which version of the story is in the current canon?

  14. #3449
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    It still doesn't make any sense to me. Like they have the pre Crisis New Teen Titans series, but also the Abnett Rebirth Titans series. Each of those series have stories that contradict each other. They can't exist at the same time. So which version of the story is in the current canon?
    Apparently timeline changes still happen in the current canon.

    So, both stories happened, but events in pre Crisis New Teen Titans were probably changed after a Crisis or something like that.

  15. #3450
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    From what I can tell, it looks like everyone is going to remember (or at least be aware) of the changes to the timeline. So basically the characters will view things the same way we do; with knowledge that there were versions of themselves that appeared in the 30's and 40's, that various Crisis events have reset their histories, etc.

    So Dick (and Bruce, Clark, Diana, etc) aren't actually going to be 80+ years old. They're just going to be aware of their larger histories beyond any one continuity.

    Or something. I'm honestly not sure what the hell DC is trying to do with all this. But I've seen "comprehensive timelines" before and they never last, never actually fix things, and I have no expectations that this will be any different. But who knows, it might end up giving us a good story.
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