Dick Grayson: Robin, Nightwing, Batman, Agent of Spyral Appreciation 2019

[Grayson - The Dark Heir]

A lot of things are indicating Wally will be the Flash in the Stargirl show, which is not the same continuity as Titans. It's the same situation as Vic being in Doom Patrol, the only chance for team-ups is crossovers. Kinda unfortunate, but also prevents the Titans show from being too overwhelmed in characters, while also giving each character their time to shine. Roy is kinda the outlier when it comes to the Fab Five and core Titans in general right now, since his only big appearances are in Arrow which is ending next season, and there's nothing lined up for the DCU service yet either.

The DCU service is also up in the air, since the only new content we know is coming is the rest of YJ: Outsiders, the Harley Quinn animated series, Stargirl, Titans S2, and Doom Patrol S2. Nothing else has been greenlit, and most rumours are pointing to the service being assimilated into whatever the Time Warner streaming service looks like. So for all we know, our only live-action Nightwing content for the foreseeable future may only last for however long he actually is Nightwing in Titans S2 (maybe the back half of the season, maybe the last 5 minutes of the finale, who knows). Here's hoping for more though, since Titans is seemingly the DCU's most popular show (while being their cheapest to produce) and has done pretty well for Netflix as well, apparently.

[Rac7d*]

A lot of things are indicating Wally will be the Flash in the Stargirl show, which is not the same continuity as Titans. It's the same situation as Vic being in Doom Patrol, the only chance for team-ups is crossovers. Kinda unfortunate, but also prevents the Titans show from being too overwhelmed in characters, while also giving each character their time to shine. Roy is kinda the outlier when it comes to the Fab Five and core Titans in general right now, since his only big appearances are in Arrow which is ending next season, and there's nothing lined up for the DCU service yet either.

The DCU service is also up in the air, since the only new content we know is coming is the rest of YJ: Outsiders, the Harley Quinn animated series, Stargirl, Titans S2, and Doom Patrol S2. Nothing else has been greenlit, and most rumours are pointing to the service being assimilated into whatever the Time Warner streaming service looks like. So for all we know, our only live-action Nightwing content for the foreseeable future may only last for however long he actually is Nightwing in Titans S2 (maybe the back half of the season, maybe the last 5 minutes of the finale, who knows). Here's hoping for more though, since Titans is seemingly the DCU's most popular show (while being their cheapest to produce) and has done pretty well for Netflix as well, apparently.

I dont want to rule anything out yet Best bromance can happen


also I hope everyone here is voting

[Godlike13]

Does Donna and Dick count as a bromance?

[byrd156]

I still need wally and Roy
the fab five will be complete

I doubt that they will show up. I want them to but I doubt it.

[byrd156]

Does I am expecting the the drama of CW show combined with the action of Titans

Um what?

[yohyoi]

Riiiiccccc!!! Meh. At least Jurgens is writing compared to *shudder* Lobdell. Comic industry is toxic to women because they keep on hiring a sexual harasser. Who would want their daughter, sister or wife working with these kind of people?

[Grayson - The Dark Heir]

Since no one else has brought it up yet, thought it was worth mentioning the new Teen Titans Go! vs. Teen Titans movie is coming sometime this year. It's still a TTG movie first and foremost, so expect it to be kinda funny and not much else, but it's looking pretty nice imo. Obviously, the fact that the TTG and 2003 TT casts are meeting means there are two different Robins meeting, but we also have Sean Maher as Nightwing (as in, the same Nightwing from the DCnAU movies, like Bad Blood) as part of the cast spotlight. So, maybe it'll only be 2 minutes worth of screen time, but it's at least not just a cameo. Three different versions of Dick Grayson getting varying levels of focus in an animated movie is pretty cool. I'm expecting more cool moments from this than I am from Batman: Hush in terms of Dick Grayson content tbh.

[byrd156]

Since no one else has brought it up yet, thought it was worth mentioning the new Teen Titans Go! vs. Teen Titans movie is coming sometime this year. It's still a TTG movie first and foremost, so expect it to be kinda funny and not much else, but it's looking pretty nice imo. Obviously, the fact that the TTG and 2003 TT casts are meeting means there are two different Robins meeting, but we also have Sean Maher as Nightwing (as in, the same Nightwing from the DCnAU movies, like Bad Blood) as part of the cast spotlight. So, maybe it'll only be 2 minutes worth of screen time, but it's at least not just a cameo. Three different versions of Dick Grayson getting varying levels of focus in an animated movie is pretty cool. I'm expecting more cool moments from this than I am from Batman: Hush in terms of Dick Grayson content tbh.

You can see a bunch of different universe Titans like DCnAU Nightwing in the background of the trailer.

[Grayson - The Dark Heir]

You can see a bunch of different universe Titans like DCnAU Nightwing in the background of the trailer.

That's why I brought up the casting information. Sean Maher as Nightwing is the only one who was mentioned, and that was together with other major characters like the Trigons and Santa. That means he's not just there for the big group shots as a cameo, we'll likely hear at least a couple lines.

[Frontier]

Since no one else has brought it up yet, thought it was worth mentioning the new Teen Titans Go! vs. Teen Titans movie is coming sometime this year. It's still a TTG movie first and foremost, so expect it to be kinda funny and not much else, but it's looking pretty nice imo. Obviously, the fact that the TTG and 2003 TT casts are meeting means there are two different Robins meeting, but we also have Sean Maher as Nightwing (as in, the same Nightwing from the DCnAU movies, like Bad Blood) as part of the cast spotlight. So, maybe it'll only be 2 minutes worth of screen time, but it's at least not just a cameo. Three different versions of Dick Grayson getting varying levels of focus in an animated movie is pretty cool. I'm expecting more cool moments from this than I am from Batman: Hush in terms of Dick Grayson content tbh.

His intro scene in Hush looks pretty good though .

[blade48]

a what if scenario. what if this Ric stuff isn't going away, how could it all turn out. Ric still drives his cab and likes to hang out in the bar and likes getting into fights but completely ignores his hero stint!

https://captainbrew.tumblr.com/post/...10-years-later

hell what happend. this used to be such a good series and a totally likable character!-(

[Tzigone]

I hope no one minds a long, rambling post. Just thought I'd talk about my perceptions of Dick from different eras and my favorite era/characterization of Dick, since his current characterization, Ric, doesn't really merit discussion, IMO.

While I absolutely like aspects from other eras, and I dislike some aspects from these eras, my favorite time periods for Dick are probably 1980-1986ish and 1996-2000. There’s some good 70s stuff and I like certain dynamics of him as guardian/mentor to Damian (and some stuff with other family), but as whole, these two eras in his titles (Teen Titans and Nightwing) are my favorites. For his characterization as stand-alone (rather than his relationships with other characters).

Golden and silver age Dick merit a bit less discussion. Characters weren't as distinct from each other back then. Nor, really, as consistent. But Dick was sometimes regarded as quite a mature young man in the golden age. Responsible, good grades, intelligent, etc. But so was Speedy - like I said, not much distinction. Despite some impressions, in the stories I read I did not notice Robin to make lots of puns or be unusually cheery and smiley and sweetness/innocence personified.

Come to the mid-60s and Dick was so much a teenager. I mean the original Teen Titans fairly scream with it early on (so much slang, really folks). One writer I didn't like had him behave like an idiot (I’m not the only one who thought so, judging by the letters pages, though opinions were split). Really, though, in the early original Teen Titans it felt like writer(s) were trying to push the "teen" thing too much, and they sometimes came off like caricatures. But it was a time in comics when stories and characterizations were shifting and there were, IMO, both failures and successes in trying to embrace new and different. Hate Robbins characterization of him (I can post panels for why, if anyone likes).

The '70s were okay. Some bits I liked, and some I didn‘t. Dick is usually responsible in Detective Comics stories. He did a little bit of playing the play-boy (with Silver), which isn't my speed, since I like the idea that Dick, unlike Bruce, doesn’t put on a facade in day-to-day life. Had a few girlfriends - very normal and not either stunningly celibate or shockingly promiscuous. Though the entire 70s was one year of college for Dick.

I am not at all fond of the "goofy" Dick that seems to have popped up fairly often in the past 20 years. They often seemed to have seriously dampened his brainpower and detective skills (because Tim is the smart one and the detective and for some reason they can't both be that). I'm not a fan of separate out all Batman’s skills and assigning one to each Robin. It makes the Robins all less than Batman and inferior to him and sets that they will never be his equals and that I do not agree with. Now this is by no means a consistent thing, but it does happen, and it does irritate me. I don't like seeing characters diminished.

I really love old-school Dick. Back when he was young (late '70s to mid '80s), they showed us how mature he was (probably to contrast his youth and make him a viable peer to older heroes). Both Wally and Roy commented on it. Roy said how he always felt so much younger (issue where he got custody of Lian). Wally though Dick was always on top of things (Kory and Donna knew better). Heck, Terry's (Donna’s ex) bachelor party was another fine example how much more of an adult he was than some men twice his age. He was pretty cerebral, a fantastic detective, a good fighter, etc. He could hang out and have fun, too, of course. He wasn't a stick-in-the-mud. He was too closed off and unwilling to talk sometimes (moreso with his team, and perhaps because he thought he needed to project confidence as a leader?). He was, in a reverse, quite willing to talk about other people's emotional issues. Sometimes as a friend, and sometimes as a leader. He behaved most immaturely when dealing with Batman, particularly as their relationship became more difficult - there were times when they brought out the worst in each other. Though it wasn't steady, of course. It's ironic, too, since it's Batman he most wants to see him as an adult.

We really got to see Dick as a leader in this era. Someone people respected and looked up to. Not that his team always agreed with him or that he was always right, but that but that he was a person that people did have trust in. And that he usually did a good job of deserving it. It's not just other teenagers, though, but the older heroes respect him as well. It's also the first time we a real, substantive romance - with Kory. Saw where he floundered and how he loved, and such. Which I thought worked well until it reached a point where I thought it needed to end, and it didn't (or rather it did end, but didn’t stay ended). Readers who like the ship, though, will likely have a different perspective, if they are like me (I just blame the writing when this sort of thing happens with ships I prefer).

Batman: Year Three - not the best story. I don't remember most of it, to be honest. But one thing I really liked was the highlighted difference between Bruce and Dick. It hits that Dick is more emotionally healthy than Bruce. That Dick had the emotional support Bruce lacked as a child (I don’t think continuity had yet settled on the idea of Alfred as a father-figure to Bruce). That could segue me into changes in Bruce's backstory and characterization, but I’ll refrain. I will say that I preferred Dick with the nice-nuns orphanage to Dick-in-juvenile-facility (though I really like Dixon’s run on Nightwing). It makes Bruce less of a "rescuer of Dick, which I prefer. I do not like the idea that Dick was doomed to end up dead on street (or a criminal) if not for Bruce. Though I admit to preferring old-school Dick-goes-directly-to-Bruce’s-home, no matter how unrealistic. I dislike the entire Talon thing even more. I hate the back-projecting of more angst and more terrible things, like his parents being murdered wasn't bad enough.

[Tzigone]

PART II (I may talk too much)

Now we come to Nightwing series. I really liked Dixon's run. I’m a DickBabs fan, so seeing them get together was great. I did read he wanted Dick/Donna, and I’m glad that didn't happen. Partially because I'm a DickBabs fan, but also because I really, really liked the platonic friendship between Dick and Donna during the New Titans. And I liked that it was platonic and that a friendship - rather than romance - could be so very important. I don't think friendships get near the credit they should as important relationships in fiction, and so often fans want them to be romantic. And the older I get, the more I value good fictional friendships and sibling relationships and so on. For the record, I also really liked the Vic/Gar friendship. And I still tend to think of Donna, rather than Wally as Dick's BFF. Though he has many friends.

Anyway, I really liked seeing Dick working on his own and having his own city. He was finding his own path and his rogues were being developed. I liked the idea of him as a cop, and I enjoyed Amy. I liked a lot of his banter with Barbara. But not just the banter, the serious stuff. Dick was looking for a real, long-term, serious relationship. And Barbara was the hesitant one - for understandable reasons. It's an everyday reminder of the things they used to do together. Things he can do that she no longer can. And she really wants to.

Of course, in this era, he was totally a big brother to Tim, a relationship he never really had with Jason (post-crisis). Now, Bruce's character was becoming worse and worse in this era, so that provided some conflict for Dick. Early in the series, Bruce wasn't that bad yet, and he and Dick had some nice bonding/reconciling moments. And so some of the issues were just on Dick's side. He has, since at least the Titans days, had a persistent need to prove himself Batman's equal. He thinks Bruce thinks less of him on occasions when Bruce doesn't. He's hypersensitive to anything he perceives as criticism from Bruce. Definitely a character flaw.

I wasn't real fond back-projection/retconning of the Dick/Babs relationship over the years. Or her de-aging. I like her at least 4 years older than Dick. With no involvement when he was in highschool. Flirtation when he was in college (1970s Batman family issues), sure, but nothing really happening until he's in Bludhaven and in his mid 20s and the 5-7 year age gap doesn’t matter because they’re both adults. I much prefer her pre-crisis background with Batman to the post-crisis one, but that’s a topic for her thread.

Then the Devin Grayson era - I don't agree with all the positions of the author, but I do agree about Devin Grayson: http://theflyingwonder.tumblr.com/po...resist-it-tell and I think way too many of her aspects stuck with the character. Which I guess makes her a success, but doesn't work for me at all, because I don't like the character she describes at all and he is not Dick to me. I've read her interview on Dick Grayson and her perception of the character was just nothing like mine. She acts like he's not a thinker (even though got called too cerebral in the old days). She acts like Dick either kisses or kicks everyone he meets, and totally disregards so many other types of relationships. Now, the Mirage-rape had already happened (and was horribly handled), plus the Raven-mind-controllish thing (also didn’t work for me), but Grayson made Dick the sleeps-around type. That was specifically contradictory to earlier characterizations where Dick was the committed-relationship type - something he actually discussed with Roy at one point. I liked Dick being a relationship-only guy, it was a big contrast with Bruce. I don't like Dick being Batman-lite at all.

A quick reference to Nightwing Annual #2, which I loathe, then off to what DC did with him.

So, Dick's life in Bludhaven was destroyed. His life as independent hero was destroyed. I enjoyed Dick with the Titans, but him in Gotham is a no-go to me. Because he goes back to being an appendage of Bruce. He's working in someone else's city, he's a subordinate (at least with Bruce is actually there). As an aside, I really do want him to grow past trying to prove himself as Bruce's peer. Not the way Jason doesn't want approval anymore, because he dislikes Bruce, but in a way that Dick realizes he's accomplished his goal already, and no one sees him as lesser (and for that to actually, consistently be true).

I haven't read as much of the Dick/Damian relationship as I maybe should have. While interested in their dynamic, I'm not keen on Dick’s wider characterization. I do not like lothario-Dick. I do not like childish Dick. And I do not like Batman-lite Dick. So I deeply disliked him taking Robin from Tim and giving it away without discussing it, just like Bruce did to him. Yeah. To top that off, I unlike many, did not like the first 12 issues of Red Robin, so there wasn't even a pay-off. And then later we'd get Dick faking his death and hurting his family for the sake of the mission (Batman's mission). Too Batman-like. I do get incredibly frustrated with that no matter how badly he treats them, Bruce's "kids" keep coming back and following his orders. I didn't like the concept of his non-masked storyline, in N52, either. Sadly, at least Barbara, Dick, and Tim have all adopted some of Bruce's worse traits in regards to secrets and manipulation at one point or another.

But my biggest thing is that Dick all to often (not always, but even once is too often) gets treated like a joke. He's the lovable brother, and that part is okay. But he's all cuddles and cartoons and Disney and most of his maturity is just gone. This is heavy in fic, but it's present in the comics, too. At 19 he was man, and later he's a man-child. Not when he's working, I mean, but in personal life. Lex Luthor says he’s not a big thinker and some people agree. And that is just totally wrong to me. For me Dick, while far from perfect, is a person that has earned and has respect not only from his peers, but from the first-generation heroes. And it just gets worse later. Late Pre-Crisis they de-age him and he’s 21 in N52 (when it starts anyway). And I hated his de-aging, and Barbara's. It feels like they’re being drug backwards and not allowed to grow up. Even though Barbara started grown up and Dick had pretty much been a man even during his endless year at Hudson. I don't like the idea of Dick as someone people don't take seriously. Bart or Booster, maybe is someone villains don't take seriously, but should. But Dick, at least as he reaches his adult years, should be someone that people (villains and colleagues) do take seriously and respect. Though maybe without the intimidation Batman has, at least with criminals. I will say I do think it was done partially to keep Batman from getting too old to do the job, but I still don't care for it.

I thought the entire issue with Dick and Bruce after Bruce’s failed wedding was bad. Dick tries to be the goofball. They try to redeem it at the end, but it falls flat because he was stupid enough to think it would help in the first place.

And now, he's Ric.

Side note: the comments on Dick’s body get a little old. I totally get that he's stunning. I'm cool with Kory or Barbara or his current girlfriend enjoying his body or complimenting him on it. But sometimes it seems like various characters (usually female) are discussing him like a piece of meat. Particularly frustrating when his hero colleagues do so. I know a good bit of this comes with me binge-reading, making it seem more often than when issues are read a month apart.

[dropkickjake]

Not a whole lotta dick in this weeks three episodes of Young Justice I'm sure he'll still play a large role going forward, but I was sad he was largely absent.

[Pohzee]

I absolutely love 70s/80s era Dick. Greatly underrated.