Dick Grayson: Robin, Nightwing, Batman, Agent of Spyral Appreciation 2019

[Badou]

Maybe DC is planning some Batman line relaunch later in the year and they wanted to move King off the main Batman book to start fresh with a new #1 and new creative team. So if they relaunch a bunch of Bat books then maybe the Ric garbage will end sooner. I can't imagine that DC would continue the Ric stuff into a newly relaunched book, but maybe they would given how they have clung to this awful editorially mandated story for so long already. Tough to say as I don't really trust them in making good decisions anymore.

[Aahz]

Maybe DC is planning some Batman line relaunch later in the year and they wanted to move King off the main Batman book to start fresh with a new #1 and new creative team. So if they relaunch a bunch of Bat books then maybe the Ric garbage will end sooner. I can't imagine that DC would continue the Ric stuff into a newly relaunched book, but maybe they would given how they have clung to this awful editorially mandated story for so long already. Tough to say as I don't really trust them in making good decisions anymore.

I don't think that they will relaunch anything before the year of the villain stories have concluded, which probably take around 6 issues. So they will probably not relaunch anything bore the end of the year.

[byrd156]

All points to him being basically how he was in his run as Robin in Post Crisis again. Every little flashback we have seen.

DC and people perceive Jason as the bad Robin, that's just how it is and I don't see that changing.

[Badou]

I don't think that they will relaunch anything before the year of the villain stories have concluded, which probably take around 6 issues. So they will probably not relaunch anything bore the end of the year.

Would the end of the Year of the Villains event end around when King gets to his 85th issue?

[Aahz]

Would the end of the Year of the Villains event end around when King gets to his 85th issue?

If I did the math correctly Batman #85 will be out in december, that would fit, but that would anyway mean a relaunch in the beginning of the next year at the earliest.

Unless of course they strech the story lines out to a complete year, so to roughly 12 issues.

[Zaresh]

DC and people perceive Jason as the bad Robin, that's just how it is and I don't see that changing.

So what's it? People perception at the time, when writers liked to victim blame the character? or what it's retconed in the comics? What's that counts? I know you like Jason as a villain alone, you made your point in our thread a long time ago; so I know that opinion weighs your reasoning (I like him anti-heroic, and it weighs mine, surely). But the thing is, as far as common sense goes, the things that should count should be what the fans of a character and the whole story of a character are depicting. Same as it should happen with Dick, or Tim, or Damian. Continuity, as you said, can be rewritten at any point in time by whoever is at the moment in any book—it can go both forward or backward, adding new traits or bringing back old ones. And the opinion of the readers, or the general audience is incomplete, and the books of these characters, books that should make their core and bone, aren't aimed for general audience, but for fans—the fans of each character, true fans, have a way more wider perspective of said character, even if biased because their likes.

Let's see the matter this way: imagine that this is Dick we're talking about (because this is Dick thread after all and I definitely want to go back on topic: sorry for my brief detour). If how most people perceive a character counts, then Dick is this always smiling, silly, character who throws really bad puns and has childish moments here and there but always good to the point of sanctity that eats cereal—and that's definitely very wrong and definitely false. What about continuity and retcons? Let's talk about how Dick and Bruce broke up when Dick stopped being his sidekick: that one has been on an off continuity a lot and I honestly don't know how they parted ways in the current continuity. Generally speaking most people remember the first retcon, with them breaking in bad terms (in bad terms is how they part ways in the Titans show, for example); but I think the current one is that they parted ways relatively in friendly terms, even if they were definitely not all good and shine and sparkles.

Jason as a kid? He has been pretty sweet, if a little of a punk, most of the time. And most of the fans see his time as Robin like that. And that's what it should count and, at least in our case, it's how his book is being written.

[Godlike13]

How a character is generally perceived, influences how a character is often generally portrayed. The idea and perception of Jason as the bad Robin is one his identity of Red Hood perpetuates.

[Pohzee]

Dick's demeanor as Robin has definitely been rewritten, so Jason's has been retconned as well. Maybe he wasn't originally written that way, but since it has been referenced that way in canon it may now be considered accurate.

[Zaresh]

Dick's demeanor as Robin has definitely been rewritten, so Jason's has been retconned as well. Maybe he wasn't originally written that way, but since it has been referenced that way in canon it may now be considered accurate.

Again, the current canon pictures him as I described him. If it counted the rewrite they did in the 90's, this counts too.

I cannot argue about how people (general audience) perceive it, or that it influences to certain degree his portrayal. I'm aware of it (unfortunately, I know that in the end it only counts what people remembers a character for. That's why I'm generally so against villanize heroes). But it's not what defines a character. It shouldn't be. When you have a writer to kneel to that stuff, you both lose the actual fans (who will feel betrayed and leave) and make a mess with consistency. The writer is who defines the character, for good or bad, and that shouldn't be determined entirely by what people perceive (but sure, some influence is to be expected: I can guess that they would want to appeal to the casual readers as well, besides the fans and readers).

If both issues (general audience perception and cherrypicked past canon) count more than a general view of the history, current continuity and fans perception, then, there's definitely something wrong (as I view the matter).

(Everytime someone says "Jason was the bad Robin", a kitten dies. Think of the kittens)

[Rac7d*]

But retcons overturn that stuff. It doesn't matter if you like a retcon or not, that becomes the new canon.

his bad attitude is the retcon
that is how he is protrayed for the last 20 years the robin with the bad attitude
the raphael its set in stone

Just like how Tim is the brainy one the one with the stick the donatello

[yohyoi]

I'm optimistic with Nightwing again. The faster we move away from the present Batman storyline, the faster Ric ends. Got banned for King, but still won at the end Here's to better writers.

[Badou]

Management is still the same so I don't have much hope things will get any better even if Ric ends. There is just no one at DC right now that has any interest in supporting the character, giving the character any sort of push, or trying some interesting stories with him. A Jason has a Lobdell that will always support the character and even a Johns now for a bit who wants to give him a prominent role in "big" stories like The Three Jokers. Damian has Tomasi and even Priest who probably wants to write him more, Tim has Bendis now and even a Tynion before who DC values a lot and he supported the character all he could for a while. Dick had Seeley but he got completely burnt out and even he didn't get to write the stories he wanted. I just don't have any confidence that anything has changed for Dick when the management that wants to undermine him is still there.

[byrd156]

his bad attitude is the retcon
that is how he is protrayed for the last 20 years the robin with the bad attitude
the raphael its set in stone

Just like how Tim is the brainy one the one with the stick the donatello

Yeah I know, that's just how it is now. DC is dumbing everyone down to a style/suit, ability, and attitude. Not just the Robins but they are the prime example. There's no room for character development.

Jason is the bad one.
Tim is smart.
Dick is generic leader.
Damian is the only one still kinda allowed to be unique for the moment.

[Restingvoice]

Yeah I know, that's just how it is now. DC is dumbing everyone down to a style/suit, ability, and attitude. Not just the Robins but they are the prime example. There's no room for character development.

Jason is the bad one.
Tim is smart.
Dick is generic leader.
Damian is the only one still kinda allowed to be unique for the moment.

Damian is the angry one.
Dick being the generic leader is too kind. He's the sexy one.

[Frontier]

Yeah I know, that's just how it is now. DC is dumbing everyone down to a style/suit, ability, and attitude. Not just the Robins but they are the prime example. There's no room for character development.

Jason is the bad one.
Tim is smart.
Dick is generic leader.
Damian is the only one still kinda allowed to be unique for the moment.

This is usually why I'm not a big fan of when they have all the Robins together. They fall into archetypes and the writing is never all that good.