Dick Grayson: Robin, Nightwing, Batman, Agent of Spyral Appreciation 2019

[K. Jones]

I think the motivation to get back into the spy game would be rather straight forward, if DC actually did it. With Spyral Dick discovered a number of threats the heroic community had no idea about. And the agencies like the DEO and all the rest are ineffective, corrupt......they're not getting the job done. But if all those agencies had been able to put their in-fighting aside and decided to work together they could've taken over the world with no one even noticing. So Dick might get back into the game just because he's the only one who can really deal with those dangers; he's not really programmed for spy work but he *is* good at it and he's got connections through Spyral. He might consider it a dirty job that only he can do.

With Leviathan......I could be wrong but so far no one has died, right? And Leviathan is making offers to heroes and villains alike, including Babs. Depending on how it all shakes out.....right now I could see this being Nightwing......except for the fact that DC seems determined to ruin the character and I doubt they'd give him such a big, important role.

Let's say Dick is Leviathan, which is what I really, really want to be the case, opening the story with him "winning" is a pretty bold move worthy of his high level of competence and his keystone understanding of not only the superhero community but how quickly he figured out the spy community as well. All while avoiding the direct ire of Batman and Superman - the two people he knows the best ways to avoid/confuse/run around.

But more than that it's a pretty Batman move, to come out the gate with a Batman Gambit, victory in the preparation, and come up with a costume that terrifies some and inspires others. To eject Talia from a ship knowing full well Superman would go to catch her instead of tailing them. (Which would also speak to their pretty antagonistic relationship and years of frenemy/enemy/my best friend's WORST ex-girlfriend dynamics).

[dietrich]

Haven't posted on this forum for a long time, and dropped Nightwing at the start of the Ric ordeal. But I lurk in every now and then to see what fans are excited/disappointed about and mostly to see if the direction of Nightwing has changed for the better. Seems to be the same old same old.

On that note, would an extreme direction change in Dick Grayson's character be more welcome than the constant re-used storylines, and under appreciated role that Nightwing seems stuck in? Would fans be happy if (for example) the current Ric persona was all a ruse, and Grayson is the man behind the Leviathon mask? It's a reach I know, but depending on how Event Leviathon plays out, would fans be upset if Dick went a different route to try and help make a difference?

Grayson being Leviathan would be a welcome and interesting direction. With he's spy background it's feasible though it's an extreme change in morals and MO but Ric is an extreme too but the Dick as Leviathan angle sounds more interesting.

[Ascended]

Why make dick a spy again. Helena not even a spy anymore. Spyral Is no longer relevant it is in limbo. It has no history without dick. So making dick a soynwiil not help him he will be like removed from the superhero world.

Or maybe he'll become DC's version of Nick Fury and be more important than ever.

As I said, I want experimentation. I liked Bludhaven under Dixon but the concept has no consistency and Dick will never be more important to the DCU when he's just protecting a smaller version of Gotham, which is what Bludhaven is seen as by the fans regardless of how true it is or isnt.

Grayson was a critical success and did well in sales, even at the end it didn't really drop below normal levels for Nightwing, and by that point the story had gotten really weird (not to mention the lack of brand recognition). So Dick getting back into a newly solidified spy world? Sure, let's give it a whirl. It can't be worse than what we have now. And I find it very unlikely that DC would ask Bendis to organize the spy agencies just to ignore the end result. Whatever comes out of the other side of Leviathan, I figure DC plans on using it.

Maybe Dick returning to espionage wouldn't work out. Okay, then try something different. But we've got a precedent in Grayson that shows the approach has some legs to it, and it's a niche no one else is filling. So I don't see any reason not to give it an honest shot and incorporate all the brand power of "Nightwing" with the spy genre. It's unlikely to be worse than "Ric" and just might be fantastic. And if it doesn't work, well, try something different.

[Ascended]

While he approaches both heroes and villains, he's promoted as a villain. So that can count as ruining.

Let's see how the story handles it. Promotion is just that; and often it doesn't really reflect the actual product.

Looking at how DC has promoted this, I expected a huge body count by the end of issue 1. Yet, as far as I recall, Leviathan hasn't killed anyone yet....as far as we know. So let's see what happens.

Now, if Leviathan *is* a villain, and if he *is* Dick Grayson, then I'll be pissed beyond all belief. You don't turn Nightwing into a bad guy! But so far I don't think we can look at Leviathan's actions and really say what he is or isn't yet.

[Jackalope89]

Let's see how the story handles it. Promotion is just that; and often it doesn't really reflect the actual product.

Looking at how DC has promoted this, I expected a huge body count by the end of issue 1. Yet, as far as I recall, Leviathan hasn't killed anyone yet....as far as we know. So let's see what happens.

Now, if Leviathan *is* a villain, and if he *is* Dick Grayson, then I'll be pissed beyond all belief. You don't turn Nightwing into a bad guy! But so far I don't think we can look at Leviathan's actions and really say what he is or isn't yet.

He did toss Talia out the airlock. If not for Supes, she would be a red smear on the side of a mountain.

[Godlike13]

If Dick is Leviathan the first thing he should do is kill the Nightwings.

[Rac7d*]

It wouldn’t be Grayson the spy. It’d be Nightwing the superhero with a spy side gig. It keeps him in the superhero circle and the spy circle. We do better adding on to Nightwing than stripping away and blocking him out of something he was once an integral part of. I’d be pissed if I was Seeley tbh. I took this idea that no one cared about and with the help of Tom (a no name at the time) made it interesting and started to rebuild the spy corner and you give Bendis the spy event after derailing Dick.. er... Ric

Sounds like you want him to black widow

[Rac7d*]

Or maybe he'll become DC's version of Nick Fury and be more important than ever.

As I said, I want experimentation. I liked Bludhaven under Dixon but the concept has no consistency and Dick will never be more important to the DCU when he's just protecting a smaller version of Gotham, which is what Bludhaven is seen as by the fans regardless of how true it is or isnt.

Grayson was a critical success and did well in sales, even at the end it didn't really drop below normal levels for Nightwing, and by that point the story had gotten really weird (not to mention the lack of brand recognition). So Dick getting back into a newly solidified spy world? Sure, let's give it a whirl. It can't be worse than what we have now. And I find it very unlikely that DC would ask Bendis to organize the spy agencies just to ignore the end result. Whatever comes out of the other side of Leviathan, I figure DC plans on using it.

Maybe Dick returning to espionage wouldn't work out. Okay, then try something different. But we've got a precedent in Grayson that shows the approach has some legs to it, and it's a niche no one else is filling. So I don't see any reason not to give it an honest shot and incorporate all the brand power of "Nightwing" with the spy genre. It's unlikely to be worse than "Ric" and just might be fantastic. And if it doesn't work, well, try something different.

No piece of writing will make you important. Money makes you important, if your marketable (BATMAN DEADPOOL HARLEY WOLVERINE) then you are important
that why Titans is the most important thing, comics no matter how well superhero movies do their is no long lasting uptick in sales its dying. It doesnt matter what idea we have for him in the books all that matter is him being featured on a screen.

Robert Patterson as batman means no film version of nightwing in the near future so bank on Titans season 2 being a hit and catching WBs interest. Their version of Dick grayson could very easily fit into a world of espionage

[bearman]

Dick is already shown to be badly psychologically impaired; it would not wreck his core character to have him even more screwed up than we’ve been shown.
To turn him into a powerful, smart adversary, out foxing Bruce and Clark initially would be brilliant. It’s Dick Grayson at his full potential.
And hopefully a jumping off point for a new ongoing direction.
I don’t think this character is Roy; and I hope we see Midnighter.

[Godlike13]

No piece of writing will make you important. Money makes you important, if your marketable (BATMAN DEADPOOL HARLEY WOLVERINE) then you are important
that why Titans is the most important thing, comics no matter how well superhero movies do their is no long lasting uptick in sales its dying. It doesnt matter what idea we have for him in the books all that matter is him being featured on a screen.

Robert Patterson as batman means no film version of nightwing in the near future so bank on Titans season 2 being a hit and catching WBs interest. Their version of Dick grayson could very easily fit into a world of espionage

If the comics division gave a crap about Titans Ric wouldn’t have happened, and the Titans comic would have been far more a priority then it was.
Hell it wasn’t too long ago that they deemed Nightwing marketable enough to double ship, which he held onto for longer then most, and yet even still they can’t bring themselves to care if he even has competent people working on his title. Even characters who perform far less, and have less going for them outside of comics, see better standards then Dick has been shown.

[byrd156]

If Dick is Leviathan the first thing he should do is kill the Nightwings.

Dick being Leviathan is just as dumb and damaging as Ric. Just not as mind-numbingly boring.

[Ascended]

No piece of writing will make you important. Money makes you important, if your marketable (BATMAN DEADPOOL HARLEY WOLVERINE) then you are important
that why Titans is the most important thing, comics no matter how well superhero movies do their is no long lasting uptick in sales its dying. It doesnt matter what idea we have for him in the books all that matter is him being featured on a screen.

Robert Patterson as batman means no film version of nightwing in the near future so bank on Titans season 2 being a hit and catching WBs interest. Their version of Dick grayson could very easily fit into a world of espionage

How are you defining "important?" I'm talking about Dick's role in his world and maximizing his potential within this specific market, not how much merchandise he sells. Because movies and tv shows don't really impact comic sales.

If the goal is to move more comics, and for DC publishing it is because they don't make the movies or shows, the way to get there is with quality, engaging directions, consistency, and a perception among the customer base that the IP matters to the wider narrative of the DCU. Dick protecting Bludhaven isn't likely to get him there. And maybe a return to the spy stuff won't either. But the odds of it happening as a spy are a hell of a lot higher than Ric suddenly being successful.

If your concern is movies, well.....honestly I feel like we're screwed. WB struggles to make good movies at the best of times and Nightwing's story is deeply wrapped up in Bruce's, and WB is struggling with that (their biggest IP that they give all their attention to, and they're struggling to get a film out. Sad). They might do an out-of-continuity Nightwing film (like Joker) or something set in the "near future" or whatever, but I wouldn't hang my hopes on the DC movies. Even if they did make a successful Nightwing film, the odds of it impacting the comic sales are really damn slim. Maybe Dick would be one of those few exceptions who do see an increase.....but his sales floor is so high already I doubt it.

The only chance any adaptations have of improving the comics side is if WB takes notice of how popular Dick is in outside media, and then tell DC to capitalize on that and push the character. But they'd have to notice him first, then overrule Didio's objections. That's a pretty damn thin hope, if you ask me. I figure the only way Dick is going to get out from under this rock is if Didio and his like-minded managers leave, or if a writer comes along who has the pull to do whatever he wants (like Bendis) and that writer decides to make Nightwing a badass again.

[Ascended]

He did toss Talia out the airlock. If not for Supes, she would be a red smear on the side of a mountain.

Assuming Dick is Leviathan (and I dont think he is) and he hasn't gone totally evil/insane, one could assume he tossed Talia knowing that Clark would save her and that would slow Superman down enough for Dick to leave.

I mean, if anyone is going to be able to out maneuver Clark (other than Bruce), it's Dick.

But I dont think Leviathan is Dick. It's a fun theory though.

[Bruce Wayne]

The amount of character assassinations from DC knows no bounds if he is Leviathan.

[Darkcrusade25]

I wanna see Dick be Leviathan. Dead Roy, evil Donna, killer Wally and villain Dick. I can see the new Titans book now: the Tryannic Titans.