Dick Grayson: Robin, Nightwing, Batman, Agent of Spyral Appreciation 2019

[Ascended]

I don't think they will write Dick off, but I do struggle to see what they could do with him going forward. So maybe just doing more of the same is equivalent to writing him off in DC's eyes.

I honestly wish they would have just had KGBeast kill Dick when he shot him in the head, or just kill Dick off in Heroes in Crisis with the other Titans. It would have been better than this lazy and terribly managed Ric story we ended up getting. Sure he would be gone for a year or so but it would be better than seeing this continued degradation of the brand and property for months and months by people and management that don't care.

I dont think DC is so far gone that they'd write him off either, but I can no longer completely rule it out. Now it just seems unlikely. Unlikely, but possible, which I wouldn't have said a year ago.

But no, I think Nightwing's profile is too big for getting rid of him. Otherwise Didio likely would've managed it long before this. But just the fact that posters like you are saying you wish DC had killed him might be that DC is winning, getting us to want a mercy killing. Didio's bosses can't be mad at him if he's just giving the fans what they want and the book isn't selling anyway. And I do believe the sales are starting to drop now, arent they?

[nightbird]

We all know it wouldn’t last but would tie into his past back story with the Grayson’s and his family lineage to be explored more. This storyline offers nothing so far.

For me Talon adds nothing. It’s fun AU/Elseworld story to some degree, but not a story to the main universe. Just like Ric it would just mess up Dick at the end. I want simply a good stories to Dick Grayson as Dick Grayson. I’m not asking too much. But current DC management for sure thinks so.

[Restingvoice]

Yea you have to be undead to be a Talon, and we already have two undead in the family.

DC's current management will happily put out a series for Nightwing because he brings extra money, but his success wasn't intended so there will be no effort beyond that.

[Godlike13]

I really don't know. It isn't like Dick has been treated any better outside of the Batman office given the dreadful Titans book. He's kind of stuck. I can't think of a time where the character has been worse off in terms of the comics since I have been following the character, which sucks given how he is finally finding a place outside comics in other media. Like I can't imagine how things will get much better. So he gets a new writer on his solo or Titans get a new writer, but neither property has any real direction or purpose. Another meandering Bludhaven story or rehash Titans story where he will be jerked around by the main Batman or JL writer probably when it is convenient. Then get tossed aside and ignored since he has zero relevance in bigger stories or the wider DCU. Odds are the new Nightwing writer will leave after an arc or two anyway.

He just has no one in his corner at DC anymore. A Morrison isn't going to swoop down from the heavens and save the character by controlling his direction to prevent other writers or management from fucking him over. The only one I think that might come to bat for the character would be Tomasi, but even that is unlikely with King mostly controlling the Batman line. It is just rough. Like new writers will make things marginally better at best but the character is in such a bad place now where you need to blow everything up and start with something new, but I don't see DC doing that. Since it would require actual effort and planning.

My thinking is get his solo out of the current Bat office, and while under a differ office maybe with being more responsible for the character there would be more incentive for that office to treat not just him and his readers better. Even if he doesn’t necessarily have somone in his corner I have think other offices would be happy to have a book that can hold a bimonthly ship for 50 issues in this market. Like I’m not even looking for some big creator to come in, at this point I’ll take some semblance of somebody giving a **** about what they are producing. Maybe with creators that aren’t making jokes about how they are on the book, and editors who aren’t seemingly actively going out and trying to find the least reputable creators they can, we can get something half decent. It might not be any better, but it can’t be worse the what’s going on under the current Bat office. Dick is dead in the water under his current management, and his readers are looked at as worthless.

[Badou]

I dont think DC is so far gone that they'd write him off either, but I can no longer completely rule it out. Now it just seems unlikely. Unlikely, but possible, which I wouldn't have said a year ago.

But no, I think Nightwing's profile is too big for getting rid of him. Otherwise Didio likely would've managed it long before this. But just the fact that posters like you are saying you wish DC had killed him might be that DC is winning, getting us to want a mercy killing. Didio's bosses can't be mad at him if he's just giving the fans what they want and the book isn't selling anyway. And I do believe the sales are starting to drop now, arent they?

I think the sales are about what they were before Batman #55. Mid 20Ks but I think the digital sales are up some because it is still riding off being bumped up from Batman #55 too. Although the digital sales are still far off what they used to be under the Grayson and early Rebirth Nightwing runs where it was a consistent top 10 or better on comixology the week it released.

My thinking is get his solo out of the current Bat office, and while under a differ office maybe with being more responsible for the character there would be more incentive for that office to treat not just him and his readers better. Even if he doesn’t necessarily have somone in his corner I have think other offices would be happy to have a book that can hold a bimonthly ship for 50 issues in this market. Like I’m not even looking for some big creator to come in, at this point I’ll take some semblance of somebody giving a **** about what they are producing. Maybe with creators that aren’t making jokes about how they are on the book, and editors who aren’t seemingly actively going out and trying to find the least reputable creators they can, we can get something half decent. It might not be any better, but it can’t be worse the what’s going on under the current Bat office. Dick is dead in the water under his current management, and his readers are looked at as worthless.

I just don't know. He had been treated like trash in the JL/Titans office for longer than this awful stretch in the Batman office, and Bendis is running the Superman office and already put Tim in Metropolis and I don't think Bendis has any interest in Dick's character nor do I trust him as a writer. So while the Batman office is bad I don't have any confidence the other offices will be much better. It is one of the reasons I am at a loss with what to do with him.

Maybe if the JL office had full control over his character it would be marginally better, but is "marginally better" what we should be hoping for? After months and months of suffering through this Ric Grayson story we come out the other side to just another menial Nightwing story or Titans story? Is the Ric story supposed to make me appreciate the normal Nightwing fare we get? It doesn't. It makes me even more annoyed. DC churns out such a low effort story like this Ric arc for months and I'm supposed to be thankful about a new standard Nightwing arc? **** that. I can't do it. I can't sit through another story of some Gotham villain coming to Bludhaven for an arc, Dick getting some pointless job again, spending more pages on useless cop characters, seeing Blockbuster's face again, another fucking Titan having issues with their stupid powers, or whatever else. I might sounds selfish but it just isn't worth it.

It is why I want them to blow it all up. Do something completely different if management doesn't give a **** about the character. Tear it all down and do something else to get the taste of the Ric story out of my memory. Shoot him off into space and have him become a Lantern, have him join the Suicide Squad if that is were Wally is going to end up from the rumors, put him in some far away country again like in Grayson, or turn him into a dinosaur and send him back hundreds of millions of years and write about that, lol. Just not more of the same.

[Godlike13]

The current office shot him in the head, had him try to burn Nightwing, only to trap him even further in Bludhaven. There is no coming out of this Ric story better, they do not want to put in any real work into the character and that laziness blew up in their face. Ric isn’t leading to ****. They didn’t even know what Ric was gonna be and bullshitted their way into this trash.
Right now the Bat office are struggling to even manage basic aspects and are depending on out of touch fill in writers, recycled recently failed ideas, and seemingly any work shop artist they can find just to get an issue to print. They are so in a hole with this book that they can’t even afford to care about the quality of what they are actually producing to the readers. They can’t do new things when they can’t even manage fundamental things. Any office can do better then this. Even if its just managing something basic like finding a semi-respectable writer or even at least a decent artist that can complete a full issue. Fundamental things they afford even they’re worst producing books and characters would be an improvement over the current situation.

[Badou]

The current office shot him in the head, had him try to burn Nightwing, only to trap him even further in Bludhaven. There is no coming out of this Ric story better, they do not want to put in any real work into the character and that laziness blew up in their face. Ric isn’t leading to ****. They didn’t even know what Ric was gonna be and bullshitted their way into this trash.
Right now the Bat office are struggling to even manage basic aspects and are depending on out of touch fill in writers, recycled recently failed ideas, and seemingly any work shop artist they can find just to get an issue to print. They are so in a hole with this book that they can’t even afford to care about the quality of what they are actually producing to the readers. They can’t do new things when they can’t even manage fundamental things. Any office can do better then this. Even if its just managing something basic like findind a semi-respectable writer or even at least a decent artist that can complete a full issue. Fundamental things they afford even they’re worst producing books and characters would be an improvement over the current situation.

I agree and can't really argue against any of that. Him staying in the office that shot him in the head, didn't care or put any effort into the outcome, and has been managed incomprehensibly bad throughout is inexcusable. I just don't think it will be much better in the other offices, given I don't think he has been used well once in the JL/Titans office since the reboot, but I guess if you want them to start with just basic management things it might be better there. I'd never say no to it as I want as much change as possible going forward and that might have better odds of happening outside of the office that gave us Ric Grayson.

[nightbird]

YJ Dick & Jason
https://jjmk-jjmk.tumblr.com/post/18...n-todd-fan-art

[Ascended]

My thinking is get his solo out of the current Bat office, and while under a differ office maybe with being more responsible for the character there would be more incentive for that office to treat not just him and his readers better. .

That's been my thought as well. The Titans office seems as lost as Nightwing, but I think the Superman office could, possibly, make for a good home. It doesn't even have to come down to Bendis; he doesn't have to be the writer just because he's writing Clark right now.

If nothing else, perhaps the Super office would see some benefit in taking over a Bat-related character and treat Nightwing with some respect in the hopes of pulling in some Bat readers.

At this point, I'd be willing to try almost anything.

I think the sales are about what they were before Batman #55. Mid 20Ks but I think the digital sales are up some because it is still riding off being bumped up from Batman #55 too. Although the digital sales are still far off what they used to be under the Grayson and early Rebirth Nightwing runs where it was a consistent top 10 or better on comixology the week it released.

Wow. Man, we really just dont give up, do we? Even when we should.....

[oasis1313]

DC refuses to accept submissions from new young writers when very clearly its old stable of writers has no clue. It seems that once a writer is "established", they can go from gig to gig while bearing no responsibility for wrecking the book before it. Isn't there anybody else in Scott Snyder's creative writing class who wants a tenured career with no accountability?

[byrd156]

That's been my thought as well. The Titans office seems as lost as Nightwing, but I think the Superman office could, possibly, make for a good home. It doesn't even have to come down to Bendis; he doesn't have to be the writer just because he's writing Clark right now.

If nothing else, perhaps the Super office would see some benefit in taking over a Bat-related character and treat Nightwing with some respect in the hopes of pulling in some Bat readers.

At this point, I'd be willing to try almost anything.



Wow. Man, we really just dont give up, do we? Even when we should.....

Trying something would be refreshing.

[oasis1313]

Trying something would be refreshing.

Suggestions? Ten characters.

[byrd156]

Suggestions? Ten characters.

That's what the pitch thread is for.

[oasis1313]

That's what the pitch thread is for.

There are some fantastic ideas there, and the things you could do with (and FOR) the character are endless. What can we DO on a real level? DC doesn't read mail or solicit opinions. All I can think of is to refrain from purchasing the book--which is breaking my heart--is there something concrete we can actively do for Dick's sake?

[byrd156]

There are some fantastic ideas there, and the things you could do with (and FOR) the character are endless. What can we DO on a real level? DC doesn't read mail or solicit opinions. All I can think of is to refrain from purchasing the book--which is breaking my heart--is there something concrete we can actively do for Dick's sake?

Money is the only thing that makes a difference.