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  1. #3586
    Caperucita Roja Zaresh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by byrd156 View Post
    The first season was awful. I'd rather watch Catwoman than season 1 again.
    Oooh, that's harsh. That movie was... something hard to put into words. And I like a lot of honestly bad movies.
    This is a signature. It has letters on it, and those letters form words. Words like these. I will not quote anything because I'm uninspired but, I read a lot: I could!

    And this is my Tumblr. Sometimes I post stuff there.

  2. #3587
    Astonishing Member Fergus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaresh View Post
    I'm expecting him not to. It seems clear to me that this series's Batman is going to stop being active, and they're giving future Nightwing his Robin and Batman's role. That's why Dick is with Jason after months and he hasn't left back to Gotham. This Jason's involvement seems stronger with Dick.
    So borrowing from Damian's story. The Beyond the Trailer presenter mentioned this in one of her video's.

  3. #3588
    Astonishing Member Fergus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue22 View Post
    I enjoyed Abnett's Titans at first. It didn't start to fall apart for me until the League talked Dick into disbanding his own team and starting up a new one on their terms. That was just all kinds of wrong. The Titans (especially the adult ones) do not bend to the whims of the Justice League. They don't work for them. They're not their sidekicks anymore. They're their own team who can't just be ordered to disband. That whole issue left such a bad taste in my mouth.

    And I can't even be mad at just Dick. Everyone else went along with it too. They could have kept going without him.
    That really bothered me too. Robbed the team of their agency. Add to that Dick didn't get to do much so the run was very poor in my opinion.

  4. #3589
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fergus View Post
    That really bothered me too. Robbed the team of their agency. Add to that Dick didn't get to do much so the run was very poor in my opinion.
    Despite being in the Dick grayson appreication thread, thats not a very good reason to call the run poor, this was the one place where he got interact with the world outside the bat. He was the one with the solo book issuing twice a month so it was okay for him to step back while his teammates took the spotlight. I love the respect he was given by his team, Garth sticking up for Dick as being leader to his King was freakin awesome

  5. #3590
    Caperucita Roja Zaresh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fergus View Post
    So borrowing from Damian's story. The Beyond the Trailer presenter mentioned this in one of her video's.
    Kind of.
    I'm seeing Hank taking on the role of mentor as much if not more than Dick.
    This is a signature. It has letters on it, and those letters form words. Words like these. I will not quote anything because I'm uninspired but, I read a lot: I could!

    And this is my Tumblr. Sometimes I post stuff there.

  6. #3591
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    Despite being in the Dick grayson appreication thread, thats not a very good reason to call the run poor, this was the one place where he got interact with the world outside the bat. He was the one with the solo book issuing twice a month so it was okay for him to step back while his teammates took the spotlight. I love the respect he was given by his team, Garth sticking up for Dick as being leader to his King was freakin awesome
    See this is bogus, and a big part of one of the current Titans problem. This kind of logic makes the Titans a toxic and counter productive environment. Titans shouldn't be an environment that punishes success and popularity. Thats illogical and self destructive. This is one of the reasons comic Titans are stuck and don't go anywhere. Instead of building on its successes and using what it has that works to further the team's and brand's overall story, it gets lost in what doesn't and becomes a halfway home and containment book for its characters that can't carry a solo. You build on what what you have that works, not just put them in the back seat and continually feed them to what doesn't. Not that you don't try to build the others up too, thats not my point here either. But people aren't drawn to the JL so they can read about Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman just take a back seat all the time, same for the X-Men, same for the Avengers.
    The last series did nothing but use Nightwing as a prop for its lesser cast and continually fed him to and for the others. The culminating use of this was when it shat all over him, and mocked him as a very concept, all to make Roy look cooler. Roy who was going nowhere and was literally going off to die elsewhere, while Nightwing had to continue on with the series and again help carry its new cast going forward right after. This is utterly backwards, and that people defend this kind of practice is why a lot of Nightwing fans think the Titans is actually bad for Dick. Which is so counterproductive for Nightwing and Titans. Fans shouldn't be screaming for a franchises most popular character, its face, to not be part of that franchise anymore. Something is very wrong when that is happening. But when it continually does him like that, and others come back with "well thats ok cause he has a solo" (in other words people want to spend money to read about him), you can't really say they are wrong for wanting that.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 10-14-2019 at 05:36 AM.

  7. #3592
    Astonishing Member Fergus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    Despite being in the Dick grayson appreication thread, thats not a very good reason to call the run poor, this was the one place where he got interact with the world outside the bat. He was the one with the solo book issuing twice a month so it was okay for him to step back while his teammates took the spotlight. I love the respect he was given by his team, Garth sticking up for Dick as being leader to his King was freakin awesome
    No it's not okay for him to step back from the spotlight just because he has a solo. Dick Grayson is not only the face of the franchise he's also the flagship character for IP's like TT, The Robin [ DC legacies in general], YJ TV Series.

    He is part of the original trinity, a major part of Batman DC's biggest IP. He might not be openly called a pillar but he is definitely one of the 3 main pillars which if you take them or their contribution away DC would feel the most.

    Years of not getting the level of respect a character of his calibre deserves has conditioned fans to lower expectations and demand less.
    We wouldn't accept or even entertain the other two pillars Batman and Superman to sit back in a team book so why should we for Dick Grayson.

    I buy Titans for Dick Grayson and DC uses him to sell the team&show so I expect him to do something and often.

  8. #3593
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    boy, I agree.
    the Trinity is Superman, Batman and Robin, and Wonder Woman.

  9. #3594
    Constant in Opal Nine Crocodile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bearman View Post
    boy, I agree.
    the Trinity is Superman, Batman and Robin, and Wonder Woman.
    Or, just to paraphrase Tom King, Dick Grayson is the fourth pillar od the DCU.

  10. #3595
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    Dick is DC's third most published character for now. At one point he was a part of Trinity over Wonder Woman.

    Now, it's clear that he's behind Wonder Woman, Harley Quinn, Aquaman, Green Lantern, and Flash.
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


  11. #3596
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pohzee View Post
    Dick is DC's third most published character for now. At one point he was a part of Trinity over Wonder Woman.

    Now, it's clear that he's behind Wonder Woman, Harley Quinn, Aquaman, Green Lantern, and Flash.
    When do you think he started his downward trend? I have my opinion on characterization decline, but that's not the same as popularity decline or decline in regard from writers/editorial/fans. I've heard things on editorial, of course.

  12. #3597
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    See this is bogus, and a big part of one of the current Titans problem. This kind of logic makes the Titans a toxic and counter productive environment. Titans shouldn't be an environment that punishes success and popularity. Thats illogical and self destructive. This is one of the reasons comic Titans are stuck and don't go anywhere. Instead of building on its successes and using what it has that works to further the team's and brand's overall story, it gets lost in what doesn't and becomes a halfway home and containment book for its characters that can't carry a solo. You build on what what you have that works, not just put them in the back seat and continually feed them to what doesn't. Not that you don't try to build the others up too, thats not my point here either. But people aren't drawn to the JL so they can read about Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman just take a back seat all the time, same for the X-Men, same for the Avengers.
    The last series did nothing but use Nightwing as a prop for its lesser cast and continually fed him to and for the others. The culminating use of this was when it shat all over him, and mocked him as a very concept, all to make Roy look cooler. Roy who was going nowhere and was literally going off to die elsewhere, while Nightwing had to continue on with the series and again help carry its new cast going forward right after. This is utterly backwards, and that people defend this kind of practice is why a lot of Nightwing fans think the Titans is actually bad for Dick. Which is so counterproductive for Nightwing and Titans. Fans shouldn't be screaming for a franchises most popular character, its face, to not be part of that franchise anymore. Something is very wrong when that is happening. But when it continually does him like that, and others come back with "well thats ok cause he has a solo" (in other words people want to spend money to read about him), you can't really say they are wrong for wanting that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fergus View Post
    No it's not okay for him to step back from the spotlight just because he has a solo. Dick Grayson is not only the face of the franchise he's also the flagship character for IP's like TT, The Robin [ DC legacies in general], YJ TV Series.

    He is part of the original trinity, a major part of Batman DC's biggest IP. He might not be openly called a pillar but he is definitely one of the 3 main pillars which if you take them or their contribution away DC would feel the most.

    Years of not getting the level of respect a character of his calibre deserves has conditioned fans to lower expectations and demand less.
    We wouldn't accept or even entertain the other two pillars Batman and Superman to sit back in a team book so why should we for Dick Grayson.

    I buy Titans for Dick Grayson and DC uses him to sell the team&show so I expect him to do something and often.
    What you guys are asking for her has never existed and never will. Dick might be the leader but he is not the lead player. Titans is an eNsmble piece, made up of several heroes coming together. I can't recall a titans where Dick was the lead, he not like bruce who takes over whatever he is apart of or wolverine

  13. #3598
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    I'm kind of a weirdo for Dick - he is (or him of certain era not now), my favorite character, but I'd have a Titans without him, eventually. I do think that, as a point of differentiation with the JL, the Titans need to be a "full-time" team, unlike the League, which is a bunch of solo heroes who get together. That means they need to live in the same city, and only occasionally have solo adventures. They need to be more of unit than the JL. So if Dick goes off for solo adventures, he should no longer be on the Titans and only occasionally guest. Discussed here.

  14. #3599
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    I'm kind of a weirdo for Dick - he is (or him of certain era not now), my favorite character, but I'd have a Titans without him, eventually. I do think that, as a point of differentiation with the JL, the Titans need to be a "full-time" team, unlike the League, which is a bunch of solo heroes who get together. That means they need to live in the same city, and only occasionally have solo adventures. They need to be more of unit than the JL. So if Dick goes off for solo adventures, he should no longer be on the Titans and only occasionally guest. Discussed here.
    Cyborg should be running the Titans(but that's a discussion for another thread). Dick works better when he's involved in the grand scheme of the DC world not tied to Gotham, Bludhaven or the Titans.

  15. #3600
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    When do you think he started his downward trend? I have my opinion on characterization decline, but that's not the same as popularity decline or decline in regard from writers/editorial/fans. I've heard things on editorial, of course.
    Obviously most of Dick's appearances were attached to Batman's hip from issues of Batman, Detective, and World's Finest rather than his own merit. You can't replicate that as Nightwing. But even still he earned appearances on his own in Teen Titans and the New Teen Titans. Ultimately, the death of the Titans franchise and folding Dick back into the Batman books as a supporting character is what I think has proved to be his downfall. Stuck playing second fiddle to Batman, doing Batman-lite things in Gotham-lite, and constantly having his narrative upended for the latest Bat events.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    I'm kind of a weirdo for Dick - he is (or him of certain era not now), my favorite character, but I'd have a Titans without him, eventually. I do think that, as a point of differentiation with the JL, the Titans need to be a "full-time" team, unlike the League, which is a bunch of solo heroes who get together. That means they need to live in the same city, and only occasionally have solo adventures. They need to be more of unit than the JL. So if Dick goes off for solo adventures, he should no longer be on the Titans and only occasionally guest. Discussed here.
    I agree that the Titans should be a full-time team only. But, I'd reconcile Dick's involvement a different way. I'd cancel his solo and fold him back into the Titans. Dick's book is doomed to mediocrity. If they fold Dick into the Titans, it gives Titans writers the chance to take chances with and develop Dick's character. Put him front and center as he should be and play with him.
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


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