Dick Grayson: Robin, Nightwing, Batman, Agent of Spyral Appreciation 2019

[Pohzee]

That’s Chuck Dixon and Scott McDaniel for you.

[Restingvoice]

That makes me curious. Bruce started out religious in the sense that he prays on his bed to find his parents' murderer in the Golden Age (although you can also say it's just for the image of pure innocence), has Dick ever shown to do anything like that in his history?

[Lady Nightwing]

I have a vague memory of Dick by a church, saying there was never any time for it. Or something along those lines. I think it's further on in this series, not necessarily Chuck Dixon's run though. If I haven't imagined it and I come across it, I'll let you know.

[Pohzee]

McDaniel I believe has said in an interview that he snuck in Bibles and youth group ass band easter eggs to acknowledge with his faith or Dixon's.

[Ascended]

Yeah, I heard that's pretty much how they kept saving Robin. Jason died, but the top (I don't know if DC's already under WB at that point) still wants to sell Robin, so they make Tim. Damian died and DC wanted to go with Snyder and push Duke, but WB demands Damian returns because they still want to sell Son of Batman.

Pretty much. I mean, none of us are in the offices so I'm not pretending I know for certain how these guys do their business. But a company has to protect its assets, and that includes ensuring the IP doesn't stray too far from what makes money.

All we need is for Didio's bosses to recognize the sales potential in Nightwing. And if he's really as prominent on the DCU sub as people have said (I dont have it) that's a good start. If Nightwing goes over well in season 3, that'll be even better.

[Godlike13]

That’s the thing though isn’t it. They are still selling Nightwing technically, and have been consistently. Notice how Ric is always accompanied by variants that don’t reflect Ric at all. Nightwing needs to get to a point where the people behind it are required to do more then the bare minimum of what they absolutely have to.

And it’s not necessarily easy to see what they are actually doing at first glance. Cause like I said they still are technically selling Nightwing, but of course they make sure to support it with regurgitate bad ideas and sub par creators. That’s the kind of stuff that easily goes unseen. And on the off chance the creators aren’t painfully mediocre they are then bumped to other projects ASAP.
Even with Ric, they sell lazy **** like Ric on the pretense of doing something “different” or “new”, but when you read deeper, as readers inherently do, you see the obvious bullshit of that. You see how it’s put in the hands of out of touch formulaic creators, and lazy editors, who don’t do “different” or “new”. So what readers really get is shitty and lazy formulaic crap, that just try to tell you how it’s different or new, when in actuality its clearly not. And when people reject it these creators just throw it back at readers with how they weren’t accepting or open to anything new. Like Lobdell did with his exit.

So even if Nightwing does start seeing more popularity from outside stuff, these guys know how to make it look like they are doing more then they actually are.

[WonderNight]

That’s the thing though isn’t it. They are still selling Nightwing technically, and have been consistently. Notice how Ric is always accompanied by variants that don’t reflect Ric at all. Nightwing needs to get to a point where the people behind it are required to do more then the bare minimum of what they absolutely have to.

And it’s not necessarily easy to see what they are actually doing at first glance. Cause like I said they still are technically selling Nightwing, but of course they make sure to support it with regurgitate bad ideas and sub par creators. That’s the kind of stuff that easily goes unseen. And on the off chance the creators aren’t painfully mediocre they are then bumped to other projects ASAP.
Even with Ric, they sell lazy **** like Ric on the pretense of doing something “different” or “new”, but when you read deeper, as readers inherently do, you see the obvious bullshit of that. You see how it’s put in the hands of out of touch formulaic creators, and lazy editors, who don’t do “different” or “new”. So what readers really get is shitty and lazy formulaic crap, that just try to tell you how it’s different or new, when in actuality its clearly not. And when people reject it these creators just throw it back at readers with how they weren’t accepting or open to anything new. Like Lobdell did with his exit.

So even if Nightwing does start seeing more popularity from outside stuff, these guys know how to make it look like they are doing more then they actually are.

So in other words just give up on nightwing in comics.

[Valentonis]

So in other words just give up on nightwing in comics.

I'm starting to approach this mindset myself, which pains me to say. The whole Ric situation has completely sapped any confidence that I have in comic Nightwing's future, and even when he comes back I can't bring myself to get invested in another round of miscellaneous adventures in Bludhaven under a C-list writer. Right now, Titans season 3, Young Justice season 4, and the possibility that he'll appear in Matt Reeves' Batman franchise at some point down the line are the only things keeping me invested.

[Godlike13]

So in other words just give up on nightwing in comics.

You can hope they accidentally bumble into a Grayson again.

[Rac7d*]

I'm starting to approach this mindset myself, which pains me to say. The whole Ric situation has completely sapped any confidence that I have in comic Nightwing's future, and even when he comes back I can't bring myself to get invested in another round of miscellaneous adventures in Bludhaven under a C-list writer. Right now, Titans season 3, Young Justice season 4, and the possibility that he'll appear in Matt Reeves' Batman franchise at some point down the line are the only things keeping me invested.

But I love those, he can’t have a personal life if he in the mask
24/7 worldwide. Save the city then go home

[Valentonis]

But I love those, he can’t have a personal life if he in the mask
24/7 worldwide. Save the world then go home

Don't get me wrong, I actually love the smaller scale Bludhaven stories. #15 of Seeley's run is probably my single favorite issue of Nightwing's publication history as it represents everything that I love about the character. But the last few arcs in Blud have just been bland street level stuff that you can get out of any old superhero. Seeley's run had problems, but it at least had some heart and vision to it you know?

[Rac7d*]

Don't get me wrong, I actually love the smaller scale Bludhaven stories. #15 of Seeley's run is probably my single favorite issue of Nightwing's publication history as it represents everything that I love about the character. But the last few arcs in Blud have just been bland street level stuff that you can get out of any old superhero. Seeley's run had problems, but it at least had some heart and vision to it you know?

I would have like titans to be the title to be used for large scale thing too bad the JL grounded them

[Restingvoice]

Pretty much. I mean, none of us are in the offices so I'm not pretending I know for certain how these guys do their business. But a company has to protect its assets, and that includes ensuring the IP doesn't stray too far from what makes money.

All we need is for Didio's bosses to recognize the sales potential in Nightwing. And if he's really as prominent on the DCU sub as people have said (I dont have it) that's a good start. If Nightwing goes over well in season 3, that'll be even better.

I believe it because when DCU first started he's the cover boy, his Robin faces plastered in all the promos and banners.
While people still talk about CW shows, The Flash and Supergirl, with the new one being Batwoman, they're all kinda blurred together, especially with Crisis on Infinite Earths.
Titans still stand alone, so they stand out, and at the center of it is Dick Grayson who people have been waiting for 2 full seasons to appear in a Nightwing costume.

[Ascended]

ThatÂ’s the thing though isnÂ’t it. They are still selling Nightwing technically, and have been consistently. Notice how Ric is always accompanied by variants that donÂ’t reflect Ric at all. Nightwing needs to get to a point where the people behind it are required to do more then the bare minimum of what they absolutely have to.

So even if Nightwing does start seeing more popularity from outside stuff, these guys know how to make it look like they are doing more then they actually are.

To a point, yeah. But we don't need anyone to look that deep; the problems right now are fairly obvious. Let's pretend for a moment that one of Didio's bosses does notice that Nightwing is a popular character on Titans, Young Justice, those direct-to-DvD cartoons, and whatever else. There's (I think) enough on the surface to indicate that this is a IP with some legs on it. And let's say that this guy, for whatever reason, takes a look at how Dick sells in comics (maybe he's bored?). What's he going to see? He'll see that the book is one of the company's most consistent selling titles with a high sales floor, usually outsells pretty much everything that isn't the League or Harley Quinn, and does so with lower end talent that don't get paid as much as the big name creators (which means Nightwing maybe has a better cost-profit ratio than average, and that sorta thing is important). Dick's got all that going for him....until recently. This exec is going to see that these sales, typically very consistent, have begun to tank hard in the last year or so.

At that point, this hypothetical exec already has enough information to force a change on DC without having to know anything more. All he has to say is "the sales here are awful when they're usually not. Fix it." Didio, being a guy who likes having a job and income, will have little choice but to do what he's told, and the most reliable way to get sales back up is to give fans what they want; a recognizable Nightwing. According to rumor the "fix the sales or else" threat got us a full blown reboot in 2011, it should be enough to get Dick Grayson back in costume.

And should this pretend exec of our's actually look deeper, he'll see that sales began to fall because of the Ric direction. And, gods willing, if our new favorite exec look even deeper he'll find Didio's personal bias which we here all know about. That means that when he tells Didio to fix sales, he's going to have an idea of what to watch out for.

Didio can try his "Dick makes Batman look old" and "Dick's redundant and pointless" arguments, but the bottom line is the only thing this exec (should) care about, and it doesn't require a lot of imagination or business knowledge to see the giant holes in Didio's arguments, or the simple solution of "to get sales back to where they were, do what you were doing." At worst it means more average-level Nightwing comics, which is a pretty big improvement over what we have now. At best? At best it means Didio puts a big name creator on the book, at least for the short term, and even a six issue run by Bendis, Johns, Rucka, or King (shudder) is going to do wonders for our former Boy Wonder.

We just need someone above Didio to recognize that there *is* a problem here. They don't have to realize how deep it runs, as long as they know it's there and tell DC/Didio to fix it, we're good.

[Fergus]

So in other words just give up on nightwing in comics.

I'm currently just spending on old Nightwing comic and old comics with Dick Grayson. I did buy the latest Nightwing Annual though.