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  1. #4066
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Nightwing’s Editors are out to launch. They have been even before Ric.

    Nightwing has to be a sweet gig to work on. There’s no standards, all you have to do is poop out whatever lazy crap you can manage until someone else comes along to tell them to do something else. I think I said this before, Jurgan’s using the ASBAR’s origin, and his take on Cobb and the Court in general, just seems a result of him doing quick google searches for his research lol. And of course the editors don’t care if it matches or is accurate, cause they are just phoning it in too. They are just there to make sure something gets to print. Whether it’s even decent or even accurate, that shit doesn’t matter to them. Hell they don’t even give a shit about reception. It’s just about getting anything to print, and keeping the appearance they are doing something.

    Now I’m obviously just a pissed off Nightwing fan, but honestly think the people on the Nightwing book are one of the worst teams in the business. Just a bunch of drones on a factory line going through the motions. And I could be wrong, cause what do I know. I’m just a one of the suckers they want to pay money to read this insultingly poor crap every month. But I’m not sure what is worse, that are lazy and that’s why their work sucks, or they are actually working hard and this is just what they are able to produce. To me going with they are lazy seems less mean.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 12-04-2019 at 08:58 PM.

  2. #4067
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schumiac View Post
    See, that's the thing though. NONE of the writers could do any of that to Dick if DC editorial didn't let them. King only cared for the shock-value and got what he wanted. Yes. And he was done. What DC did with Nightwing afterwards was up to them. It is not like DC is trying to fix things with Nightwing and King is using his pull to stop them. He is not in the equation anymore, the ongoing Ric debacle is DC's own doing. They are the ones who OKed Lobdell's horrid idea (despite the fact he wasn't even going to write it himself). They are the ones who are still keeping Ric around (which lead to Bendis needing to sub Huntress for Nightwing in his, because he couldn't use Dick.).As long as DC editorial's treatment of Nightwing doesn't change this will keep happening. If it isn't King, it will be someone else who will derail the character and do with him whatever they want and then discard him. And his ongoing will keep getting hijacked for "more important" stories. This is why ultimately the problem for me is the DC editorial and the blame goes to them. Doesn't mean I am not bothered at the disrespect writers show their colleagues and the character. I am. It is why I don't want King writing Nightwing, don't care if he is a "big name" or not, his style of "no care for characters, just want to be shocking" writing is not something I like or am impressed with..
    But the main reason Ric has gone on as long as it has is to facilitate King's Batman story. King shot Dick for shock value and then wanted the character out of the way to drive Bruce into madness for his whole story post the failed wedding issue as part of Bane's plan. That is the reason they isolated Dick to Bludhaven and wrote him out of all the ongoing Batman stories by giving him amnesia. Sure, Lobdell stupidly campaigned to have the Ric story last longer then bailed after one arc, but in the end King pretty much just ignored everything that happened with Dick and made his whole reason for shooting him in the first place kind of irrelevant. You could completely remove the Dick getting shot by KGBeast story from King's run and it wouldn't read any differently because Dick's character was completely ignored in the dozens of issues after the shooting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    See im not interested in a super fan writer that kisses the characters ass. IMO Nightwing needs a writer with contemporary fresh ideas and a relevant voice. Personally my pick is Priest cause he has a harsh and honest view on the character. Im not saying that Kings the guys, but ill still take King over these out of touch old guys like Lobdell and Jurgans who just lazily go through the motions with tired ideas and factory driven techniques. Beggars can't be choosers here. The character has literally nothing going for him right now in comics. So if King and Janin are doing something Grayson, ill take it.
    Honestly, give me the super fan that kisses the character's ass for a run. It would be something different. Give me some stories where Dick is a badass and doing amazing things and is actually enjoying being a hero. I'm so sick of writers coming on and deciding to tear down the character and then build him back up to where the character started from and calling that development. It's exhausting and repetitive. I feel like nearly every Nightwing story is this. Part of what made the Grayson series so good is that Dick actually got to be a fucking badass for a change and felt capable. It wasn't them just beating down the character over and over and having him struggle through every encounter. Even though I wouldn't say no to a Priest he would probably do the exact same thing with beating down the character that we've read so many times before.

    Then again Higgins is the biggest Nightwing fan and his whole run was basically seeing how much he could torture the character and how miserable he could make him. So I guess in the end it won't matter.

  3. #4068
    Spectacular Member Schumiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    Honestly, give me the super fan that kisses the character's ass for a run. It would be something different. Give me some stories where Dick is a badass and doing amazing things and is actually enjoying being a hero. I'm so sick of writers coming on and deciding to tear down the character and then build him back up to where the character started from and calling that development. It's exhausting and repetitive. I feel like nearly every Nightwing story is this. Part of what made the Grayson series so good is that Dick actually got to be a fucking badass for a change and felt capable. It wasn't them just beating down the character over and over and having him struggle through every encounter. Even though I wouldn't say no to a Priest he would probably do the exact same thing with beating down the character that we've read so many times before.

    Then again Higgins is the biggest Nightwing fan and his whole run was basically seeing how much he could torture the character and how miserable he could make him. So I guess in the end it won't matter.
    I think the "break down the character" thing is one of the biggest problems. Don't know why so many writers want to torture and take the character they are given to their absolute lowest, with plans to rebuild. I am guessing it is this obsession with "leaving a mark" on the character, which just doesnt work out as they plan. For one, their time on the book is limited and when they take forever to take the character down (which they do) it turns the readers away from the title. Second, even if readership persevered through the "torture the character" crap, the editorial usually has some other stuff going on and intervene on their on-going story and/or take them off the title before they can get to the "rebuild" phase. Why is it just not enough for writers to write enjoyable, fun adventures for the characters I will never know. they can be quite memorable too if done right. You don't need angst and depression and torture and all doom and gloom. And if you absolutely have to do the break down thing dont spend 20-30 issues doing it. Gee.

  4. #4069
    Astonishing Member Fergus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    But the main reason Ric has gone on as long as it has is to facilitate King's Batman story. King shot Dick for shock value and then wanted the character out of the way to drive Bruce into madness for his whole story post the failed wedding issue as part of Bane's plan. That is the reason they isolated Dick to Bludhaven and wrote him out of all the ongoing Batman stories by giving him amnesia. Sure, Lobdell stupidly campaigned to have the Ric story last longer then bailed after one arc, but in the end King pretty much just ignored everything that happened with Dick and made his whole reason for shooting him in the first place kind of irrelevant. You could completely remove the Dick getting shot by KGBeast story from King's run and it wouldn't read any differently because Dick's character was completely ignored in the dozens of issues after the shooting.


    Disagree on this. Shooting Dick was for shock and to bench him. It was never about breaking Bruce [Bane thought it would] King made that clear when he wrote that Bruce hadn't smiled since the day his folks died.

    If Bruce never had a moment of happiness in all the decades he raised, worked with and lived with Dick then him getting shot is about as impactful as a co-worker getting shot. Bruce reacted and then moved on. The Annual takes care of why that plot was ignored.

    It was just a thing that happened that explains why there was no one mature, competent and respected enough who could take command and make sure things didn't get as bad and stupid as they did.

    King needed all the grown ups gone so he could party and he burned down the house

  5. #4070
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schumiac View Post
    See, that's the thing though. NONE of the writers could do any of that to Dick if DC editorial didn't let them.
    Exactly.

    Even the best writer is going to come up with a bad idea every now and then. It's editorial's job to say "no" when that happens. Hell, that's why there are editors in the first place; it's not just checking grammar. King wanted to mess with Bruce by shooting Dick, but it's his editors who allowed him to write that story, allowed it to upend Percy's plans, and gave the green light to this Ric nonsense rather than spin the story a different way (or handwave it away with a "six months later" caption).

    Do you know what I would have said if I had been King's editor? I'd have said no. Because Nightwing has a solo title and its writer has plans already. It's King's editors said yes.

    The only way this isn't on the editors is if they've been given their marching orders from above.

    Actually, scratch that. We can probably blame DC's whole corporate culture for this. That's what allows writers to have more control than they should, that's what allows viable properties to be shelved and sabotaged instead of invested in, etc.
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  6. #4071
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    I'd say yes because Bane hiring The Beast to shoot Dick makes sense for what he's trying to do, but the Nightwing and Titans series will continue with stories either set after he recovered in the future or a collection of stories set in the past since it won't wreck ongoing continuity.

    Also, having him recover at the tail end of Sad Batman Parade or whatever that arc is called right before The City of Bane would be enough since by that time the goal of having Sad Batman is fulfilled, and his presence with the Batfam team won't change a thing. They're still gonna be trounced by Thomas and brainwashed by Pirate, and I still won't read it, but at least I still have Nightwing in Nightwing comic... assuming the story's good.

  7. #4072
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Titans sucked and Dick needed to be pulled away from Abnett. They just needed to better coordinate with his current creators to find a story they would want to tell with it, and if not then go out and find other creators to pitch who maybe has a story. But no, and this is why the current editorial is bad, when they couldn't make it work for the guy on the book they just threw it to the worst performing guys in the office cause they can do something fast.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 12-06-2019 at 06:25 PM.

  8. #4073
    Incredible Member Drako's Avatar
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  9. #4074
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Random question - how many issues has Dick had as Nightwing, if you add them all together? Asking because I want Nicola Scott to use her Nightwing cover similar to the Tec, Action, and Wonder Woman covers.

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  10. #4075
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Ballpark guess is like 250+.

  11. #4076
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drako View Post
    Ooh nice colors. Glowy

  12. #4077
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    Random question - how many issues has Dick had as Nightwing, if you add them all together? Asking because I want Nicola Scott to use her Nightwing cover similar to the Tec, Action, and Wonder Woman covers.

    His 1996-2009 Nightwing run had 153 issues.
    His New 52 2011-2014 run had 30 issues.
    His Rebirth 2016-2019 run is at 66 issues.

    So we are at 249 issues. This isn't counting the original pre 1996 mini series or the special Nightwing issues like Nightwing 1000000 or Annuals. Also not including the Grayson series.

    A bit unfortunate that we hit issue #250 during this Ric Grayson story. :/
    Last edited by Badou; 12-06-2019 at 11:31 PM.

  13. #4078
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    What's his Robin solo/feature series called in the 40s/60s? Something Star... kinda like All-Star Comics. Was he the only main character in that series, or is it an anthology? As in, can we count that?

    Grayson has 20, was it? Plus 3 annuals? Yes. 23.

  14. #4079
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    I love the love DCuniverse gives him, I will stay lloyal to them until they dont


    Last edited by Rac7d*; 12-07-2019 at 12:07 PM.

  15. #4080
    Mighty Member WonderNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    I love the love DCuniverse gives him, I will stay lloyal to them until they dont


    the DC universe gives him love because he's bringing in the money. This is what happens when he's not being treated as a second class hero.

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