Dick Grayson: Robin, Nightwing, Batman, Agent of Spyral Appreciation 2019

[Blue22]

What’s been the worst thing Dc has done to Dick’s character?

Aside from what they're doing now? Probably when he freaked out at Kory for entering a loveless, political, and totally in name only marriage to save her people. The marriage that's literally only binding on her home planet. To a guy who, if I recall, had his own lover so he wouldn't care if Kory was still with Dick.

[dropkickjake]

And the Bat editors can treat him as something more than just another Robin. They used to, they can again. Dick could be handled great under the Bat office if the Bat office wanted to handle him right.

And Dick doesn't *have* to be under the Bat umbrella anyway. For a while he was under Titans editorial, and other legacies like Donna Troy and some of the YJ kids don't fall under their mentors' editorial group either.

I say the Bat and Super offices trade. We'll give Nightwing to Superman, and Batman can have Steel in return. I feel like that might benefit everyone!

Thing is, they should be doing this for all of the former Robins, focusing on their distinctions and what makes them unique. Each one should have their own book with their own distinctive tone and direction. All four of them can hold a solo with decent sales. Tim (IMO) doesn't work as well as a team leader and should have an actual detective book. Jason should be rogue hero/antihero type stuff. Damian doing ninja stuff. And Dick could have several directions fit him, Team Leader, Ace Spy, hell even Space Ranger (though I think we are all partial to spy stuff). All of these could hold their own if the bat office wanted more than one strong character.

[AmiMizuno]

Dc don’t care. They haven’t cared in a long time. Everyone has to be lesser than Batman. Only Batman can save the day. All characters in Batman’s book are written as weak.

[Claude]

Dc don’t care. They haven’t cared in a long time. Everyone has to be lesser than Batman. Only Batman can save the day. All characters in Batman’s book are written as weak.

See, I'm not sure.... I kind of think Dick just missed his shot, really.

It's not that long since "Robin War" and "Batman And Robin Eternal" which - putting aside your thoughts about the quality of those stories - were DC really getting behind Dick Grayson as a story-driving lead character, with a story-driving personal Status Quo, and a major player. When those books were coming out, wasn't it something like a third of all DC's output for three months starred Dick?

But then - and again, leaving personal opinions out of it - those books didn't seem to perform as DC had hoped. And then very quickly the "Grayson" elements were backed up to more neutral "Bat-Family Supporting Character" baseline, and Dick moved from driving events to being lucky to be featured in them.

Oh, for a world where Batman And Robin Eternal turned out better..... I think we'd be in a very different place for Dick now if it had.

[AmiMizuno]

I hope sooner rather than later we get better stories.

[Claude]

I hope sooner rather than later we get better stories.

Amen to that!

[AmiMizuno]

Any ideas for a good story idea?

[Godlike13]

See, I'm not sure.... I kind of think Dick just missed his shot, really.

It's not that long since "Robin War" and "Batman And Robin Eternal" which - putting aside your thoughts about the quality of those stories - were DC really getting behind Dick Grayson as a story-driving lead character, with a story-driving personal Status Quo, and a major player. When those books were coming out, wasn't it something like a third of all DC's output for three months starred Dick?

But then - and again, leaving personal opinions out of it - those books didn't seem to perform as DC had hoped. And then very quickly the "Grayson" elements were backed up to more neutral "Bat-Family Supporting Character" baseline, and Dick moved from driving events to being lucky to be featured in them.

Oh, for a world where Batman And Robin Eternal turned out better..... I think we'd be in a very different place for Dick now if it had.

That doesn’t really follow though, as actually after Grayson and B&RE/Robin War Dick landed a twice mouthy series all his own, Titans, and an else world mini. So his regular production did increase after those. And with Rebirth both books did rather well initially. I think it was a new high for Nightwing even, and Titans creators said repeatedly they weren’t expecting Titans to do what it did.

And here is the thing with Batman and Robin Eternal, Dick was just a view point. It didn’t spin out of Grayson or his story. Bruce was just off the table and they needed someone general readers gave a **** about as a viewpoint, but it was never his story and that became apparent to readers rather fast. He was quickly fed to its true leads of Harper and Cass. He didn’t drive that event or story, it did nothing to expand on his current personal status quo, they just brought him back to Gotham to use him and the Robin anniversary to try and sell their Harper and Cass story despite his personal status quo. Its story lead to nothing for him, or what he was going to do after, and ultimately it just positioned him under two lesser know characters that went nowhere after.
B&RE was exactly what people are saying they shouldn’t be doing with Dick. Portraying Dick as just another Robin, bringing him further into the Bat umbrella just to undermine him and his story to try and prop Batman or other Bat characters. B&RE wasn’t selling him or his story, but Harper and Cass’. He was just there so they can kick his ass and tell everyone how they would have been a better Robin. His character, status quo, and story going forward received no benefit from it.

Whats more Ric is going to out last Grayson, despite being the worst Dick has sold since pretty much ever. And pretty much from the start. So, ya...

[Rac7d*]

Thease appreciation pages
Been pretty depressing

[Valentonis]

Thease appreciation pages
Been pretty depressing

You're right. Let's try to spice things up despite the rough times.

What are your guys' single favorite issues of ol' Dicky G? I think I've mentioned it before in this thread, but I'm partial to Nightwing Rebirth #15, just fun read and a great character study all around. I'm of the mind that a single issue should be able to tell an entire story, and Seeley really nailed it with that one (Up till the cliffhanger ending of course).

[Ascended]

I don't recall the issue number, and there's been a lot of single issues I really enjoyed, but what stands out right now was an early-ish issue from Dixon where Superman shows up to check on Dick and catch up. It was one of the most fun issues Dixon did on the series and he was able to balance the two characters really well, and didn't sacrifice any of Dick's agency for the bigger, more powerful character. Clark *does* help Dick rack up a couple easy wins (Dick has Clark strong arm Blockbuster at one point) but it was tons of fun to read and Dick is the one driving the issue.

This happened during a time in the Super books where Clark was taking over the world (the whole Dominus thing I think it was), and most of the time when Clark showed up during that year or two period, he was kind of an ass. But he shows up in Bludhaven all smiles, knowing (and I think he says as much) that Dick is the one hero Clark knows he doesn't have to worry about.

[Restingvoice]

Broken record here, but Robin Dies At Dawn and We All Die At Dawn. I'll add the issue where he swordfights a Talon... that's so hot, he needs to hold a sword more often... so of course, the other time he holds a sword when he goes all Kill Bill fighting Crazy 88 to rescue Damian.

[K7P5V]

My Top 5 Favorites (chronologically listed):

The Judas Contract (1984)
Prodigal (1994)
A Knight in Bludhaven (1996)
Rough Justice (1997)
Love & Bullets (1998)

[Rac7d*]

Grayson issue 6

So much fun to read on over and over

[Restingvoice]

My Neighbor Batman by doc-squash on Tumblr

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Frigging kawaii