Dick Grayson: Robin, Nightwing, Batman, Agent of Spyral Appreciation 2019

[Restingvoice]

I decided to search for it myself. Got nothing on the apartment yet, but CBR made an article on what happened to Nightwing around the time of his marriage to Kori, which apparently took place around KnightQuest/KnightSend as Bruce couldn't attend because of his injury from Bane.

"After his marriage to Starfire in New Titans #100 in 1993 was interrupted, he was sort of in limbo for a year, with a few guest appearances here and there.
And after he was completely written out of New Titans, he had a storyline filling in for Batman post-Knight's End and Zero Hour. And then he was back to limbo for most of 1995 until finally he got a new costume and his first mini-series in late 1995. It was still another year before he gained his own ongoing series in late 1996.

However, a lot of the reasons for why Nightwing was in such a state of limbo state in the beginning of the 90s was because the original plans for the character fell through.

Originally, writer/artist Art Thibert was going to do a Nightwing mini-series that would run in 1992, concurrently with New Titans #93-99.

The series, co-written with Pamela Winesette, was about an alien invasion of Earth that led to Starfire being captured and Nightwing has to save her. The main point of the series was to establish Nightwing as an extremely competent hero, and to do so on the largest of scales - in front of the entire superhero community.

At the end of the series, Dick would have a newfound confidence and would ask Starfire to marry him, she'd accept, and this would all lead into New Titans #100, which would be the marriage of Nightwing and Starfire, which would be handled much like Donna Troy and Terry Long's marriage in Tales of the New Teen Titans #50.

Of course, the best-laid plans of mice and men often go awry, and in this instance, the editor who was driving the project, Jonathan Peterson, left DC for Image Comics in 1992. Thibert had already put off doing the mini-series for a time because of a commitment to Marvel for a Cable ongoing series, but he ended up dropping both series to ALSO go to Image Comics.

So the new editors instead had New Titans writer Marv Wolfman have a wedding ceremony go awry in New Titans #100 (the minister was murdered by a newly-evil Raven) and the character of Nightwing had a bit of a delay on his road to prominence."

https://www.cbr.com/comic-book-legends-revealed-195/2/
https://womenwriteaboutcomics.com/20...and-nightwing/

That's a lot more behind the scenes than I thought, and wow were they unlucky that Nightwing editor and artist just have to leave, but I wonder when Batfamily editor's plan to bring Nightwing back to their department comes in because Wolfman didn't have to break them up.

[AmiMizuno]

Who should be Nightwing's editor?

[Restingvoice]

"The weird part was that there was no 'official" breakup. After the wedding fiasco, they were supposed to have a rooftop meeting and talk it out but Kory just didn't show up.

She flew off, apparently to the Amazon, because she was going through some sort of Tamaranian coming of age event, which involved her flipping out and becoming more feral. She even burned off most of her hair with a star bolt, so for a short time, she had shorter hair.

Dick Grayson tracks her down and she doesn't remember him.

She eventually leaves the planet, marries a Tamaranian general; at one point she says she's in love with him, and at another, she said it was sort of political.

At one point in the story she is supposed to be pregnant (presumably her husband's child, but then it is retconned to be the good bit of Raven's soul, which was transmitted when Raven attacked/ kissed her at the wedding.

The book was going downhill at the time, so it's hard to remember exactly what happened."

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/starf...eak-up-601234/

Wow, that's a whole lotta stupid. No wonder the book's going downhill.

Edit:

"The plan for the rooftop meeting was after the Tamaranian coming of age event

It was not before

She regained her memory after she was kissed by a hero

She was being attacked and she was rescued and taken to the ship, and the crew eventually helped her regain her memories

after that, she realized that she and Dick were not ready to be marred and too young

she also felt that Earth was no longer her home for she belongs in Tamaran"

Okay, that's a bit better, but now I don't know where to start.
The reason I'm looking for this is because I'm making my own story. What would happen? How would it happen?

But before that, I need to know when or where the interference started to come in. I don't have a problem if they change plans because real-life problems affect the plot, my problem is with deliberate interference, such as editorial forcing an edict that doesn't match the character's actions, or if the writers are writing out of character.

[AmiMizuno]

I wish they would have done the wedding. Maybe one day.

[Restingvoice]

"The Conclusion of the Titan Hunt in The New Titans issue #84 had Dick reunited with Kory and other captured Titans in Azarath, but Raven is completely taken over by Trigon.

Dick and Kory's relationship goes downhill with Kory still being affected by what happened to her in Azarath and Mirage disguising herself as Kory and having sex with Dick. After the events with Mirage, Kory feels insecure about Dick's love for her even though Dick is still in love with her. Still feeling hurt and hating he didn't know he had been with Mirage and she can recognize everything about him, she breaks up with him in New Titans issue #97.

In the New Titans issue #99, Dick desperately tries to get back together with Kory and he even goes to a club dressed up as Nightwing and tries to talk to her when Kory was with a friend watching a show. Kory doesn't want to talk to him until later. Nightwing comes off a bit possessive, and her friend intervenes. Nightwing gets violent with him. Kory blasts him with a star bolt. Not long after, he shows up at Kory's apartment at 3:30 AM and tells Kory that he loves and needs her, admitted that he was thinking with his hormones and not his head in regards to not being able to know that he was having sex with somebody disguised as Kory, saying his morality makes him a one-woman man and that she's that woman and will always be, and asking her to marry him leading to the last page of Dick and Kory in each other's arms kissing. Obviously, Kory accepted Dick's marriage proposal."

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/starf...eak-up-601234/

That rape was the lead up to the marriage?! Wow, that's bad.

"Before Dick was taken from the Titans office, there was an original plan of a Nightwing mini-series that establishes Dick's greatness among the superhero community.

The Mirage stuff,Kory breaking up with Dick,and Dick's desperate marriage proposal seem to be events that were created to lead up to the disastrous wedding and their breakup."

There it is! I mean it's speculation but I won't be surprised if it's true since that sounds similar to what Didio did to Steph leading up to her death. Making things deliberately bad.

Edit:
http://www.titanstower.com/nightwing...es-plans-1991/
They got the approval of Marv Wolfman to marry Dick and Kori and launch a Nightwing mini. He's enthusiastic.
Then it all went to *****
Yeah, that whole Mirage and Marriage thing sounds definitely enforced now.

So I guess what would've happened is that. Dick will have his first series as a married couple with Kori and stays in the Titans editorial.

How would the history of DCU have been much different then? We know now his first solo series will have him as a couple with Kori, but would he have gone back to Gotham to do Prodigal? I think so, it makes sense to his character.

So now that's all over, my next question is, how did Bludhaven came in?

[Jackalope89]

Bludhaven? Eh. Probably so editorial could give the illusion of Dick being on his own, but obviously close enough to still be dragged back into the Bat fold when demanded.

[AmiMizuno]

Bludhaven? Eh. Probably so editorial could give the illusion of Dick being on his own, but obviously close enough to still be dragged back into the Bat fold when demanded.

Which is why it would be easier to change the personality of the city. It can't be Gothman since Dick isn't always angry and grim. Somewhere where there is happiness. But there is corruption. The vegas setting makes sense.

[Restingvoice]

"When the mastermind Blockbuster started making moves into Blüdhaven, so too did Nightwing who was following up on the murder of 21 gang members who had washed up in Gotham City's estuary."

https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Bludhaven

"Approximately 33 minutes' drive from Gotham City, Nightwing moved here initially to help Batman solve a string of murders related to a thoroughly corrupt police force, only to remain there to carve out his own reputation away from either Batman or the Titans."

https://batman.fandom.com/wiki/Bl%C3%BCdhaven

So that's the in-story reason for the move.
Heh.
Well, it's different from Titans, sure but it fails on the Batman part, at least visually.

Would he have moved to Bludhaven with Kori if they're happily married in... let's just say New York until I confirm where they live during the days leading up to their wedding

Wait, back up a bit

Would he have played Batman during Prodigal after he's married? I think he would. He's not gonna stop helping Bruce just because he's married. He's his dad.
He might not say "I would die for you, Bruce" so easily now that he has a wife, but he's still gonna help. After that though, he'll go back to Kori.

[Jackalope89]

"When the mastermind Blockbuster started making moves into Blüdhaven, so too did Nightwing who was following up on the murder of 21 gang members who had washed up in Gotham City's estuary."

https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Bludhaven

"Approximately 33 minutes' drive from Gotham City, Nightwing moved here initially to help Batman solve a string of murders related to a thoroughly corrupt police force, only to remain there to carve out his own reputation away from either Batman or the Titans."

https://batman.fandom.com/wiki/Bl%C3%BCdhaven

So that's the in-story reason for the move.
Heh.
Well, it's different from Titans, sure but it fails on the Batman part, at least visually.

Would he have moved to Bludhaven with Kori if they're happily married in... let's just say New York until I confirm where they live during the days leading up to their wedding

Wait, back up a bit

Would he have played Batman during Prodigal after he's married? I think he would. He's not gonna stop helping Bruce just because he's married. He's his dad.
He might not say "I would die for you, Bruce" so easily now that he has a wife, but he's still gonna help. After that though, he'll go back to Kori.

And he could still mentor Damian in Bruce's absence. He just would have Kori there as well. Which would make for some interesting scenes too.

[K7P5V]

Which is why it would be easier to change the personality of the city. It can't be Gothman since Dick isn't always angry and grim. Somewhere where there is happiness. But there is corruption. The vegas setting makes sense.

Agreed. Seemingly, that Vegas set-up for Bludhaven had a lot of potential.

[Restingvoice]

"Contrary to what you might expect, Dick’s exodus from Gotham actually had nothing to do with any bad blood with Bruce. Quite the opposite—Dick’s move to Blüdhaven was actually done as a favor to Bruce.

The move itself happened officially on the pages of NIGHTWING #1 back in 1996. This was Dick’s first ever solo ongoing series, coming hot on the heels of a handful of one shots and limited series, and massive Batfamily events like “Contagion.” All things considered, this was a pretty healthy time as far as family relationships were concerned through the entire family, and despite the occasional near death experience and world-threatening catastrophe, things between Nightwing and Batman were pretty good.

So, it’s in the spirit of this relative goodwill that Bruce decides to send Dick on what will undoubtedly prove to be one of the most challenging solo missions of his superheroic career. A string of murdered corpses have washed up in Gotham’s bay, and the trail leads right back down the coast to—you guessed it—Blüdhaven. What’s worse, the murders all have the makings of a major shift in the power scheme of the underworld, and it looks like they might all lead back to the dangerous super villain Black Mask."

https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2016/1...n-to-bludhaven

There it is. Going to Bludhaven was actually a mission from Bruce, or at least something he offers, that he asked Dick to help, even if he decides to stay later on to make something of himself, on top of the fact that he's fully part of the Batfam now.

That's why they didn't make much of an attempt to differentiate Bludhaven and Gotham. Since it's part of the same family, branding wise it's actually more beneficial to have it's similar to Gotham, much like why Nightwing's costume is black and blue following Bruce's own dark and blue. It makes them part of the same group, the same world. That costume was designed post-wedding, post-Prodigal when Dick is already fully part of the Batman family.

So now that I fully understand the how and why they're all designed that way...

I have no problem with Bludhaven being as it was in the 90s, as it was designed to fit the Batman family in mind. There is no plan to make Nightwing stand out from the family, it's to blend him in aesthetically and branding-wise, while at the same creating a narrative that fits a young adult trying to make a name of himself. There's nothing wrong with that... back then.

Now though, now that he's been Robin, Nightwing, Titans leader, Batman, League leader, and secret agent, I feel like he's more than Bludhaven, more than someone who should be similar to Batman or someone who should stay in a city that's uniform to Batman, and definitely shouldn't be under Batman.

I've decided. I don't want Bludhaven. Vegas Bludhaven doesn't match the name anyway. Dark Bludhaven fits the name better, but that was then, designed for Dick's life story and state back then. If we go by everything is canon, then Dark Bludhaven should've been a chemo crater by now anyway. It's not something a Dick-of-Every-Canon can go back to.

So... now what?

When he returned from Spyral, he stays at his apartment in Gotham, but with Titans reestablished, I think for now he should go stay in New York at Titans Tower with them.
...
I think we're back where we started before Dick married Kori. Huh. Neat.

...but if you want his own independent city, then I want to design it from the ground up.
Something that can exist between Titans/League, Batman family and Spyral

[AmiMizuno]

Agreed. Seemingly, that Vegas set-up for Bludhaven had a lot of potentials.

The thing is now Las Vegas and Bludhaven. Where do similarities start and end? We need to make sure yea it's Las Vegas inspired but it's not Las Vegas.

[K. Jones]

Dick had his Nightwing garb all through Doomsday Clock. Nothing about it's wrap up indicates that it takes place "after" the rest of the DCU catches up anymore so I think it's fair to figure Snyder era New Justice books and Bendis Super books, and the Ric Grayson ... Err ... "Saga" ... Are after Manhattan reverses Rebirth.

Everyone welcoming back the JSA in DC then forgetting them during Snyder Crisis can be chalked up to a hiccup in time resetting.

[Restingvoice]

Speaking of Doomsday Clock, with JSA and Wonder Woman restored to the timeline of this Earth as participating in World War II, we're in the new timeline.

In Dick's case, his canon status now is becoming Robin in Year 3, formed the original Teen Titans a year later, met Barbara a few years later, formed New Teen Titans, became Nightwing in The Judas Contract around the same time Jason became Robin, went through No Man's Land, Infinite Crisis, then after Final Crisis and Flashpoint he became Batman for a year, return as Nightwing, went through the Court of Owls, and now here we are with Hell Arisen.

[Badou]

I don't think that canon is correct. Judas Contract is still a story that doesn't fit in with modern canon. I guess if Priest's Lazarus Contract story is erased now from the current canon then maybe a version of some type of Judas Contract story happened, but then does that mean Terra is dead again now? Is Beast Boy still as young as he is in Rebirth? Is Rose missing an eye again? Has Dick been to Bludhaven before Seeley's Rebirth story? Does Dick become Batman after Flashpoint make sense if Bruce was already back at the end of Flashpoint? And so many more things that kind of don't fit together.