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  1. #76
    Incredible Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Oh yeah, McDaniel was the first artist I saw who really made me think "Yeah, this guy is an acrobat!" He really pulled out some great visuals and made Nightwing's movement and fighting style stand out from the rest of the Bat-pack. Looking back, a lot of the ways McDaniel handled Nightwing's fight scenes reminds me of how Kirby would handle Captain America. For my money, McDaniel is one of the definitive Nightwing artists.
    I agree completely and it's a shame that his work is overlooked these days. The Dixon run in general doesn't seem to get mentioned much at all and there's a lot to like in it.

  2. #77
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    McDaniel was great, no doubt.
    Now that Titans has proved itself, I am hoping Dick will have a more acrobatic fighting style like that, as opposed to him being the bruiser he is now.

  3. #78
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    Don't forget Perez, the way he drew Dick flipping around or leaping through the air was incredible. Not as fluid as McDaniel but it just feels solid like they are still frames of an acrobat in motion.
    "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does? - Gaff Blade Runner

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  4. #79
    Incredible Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by byrd156 View Post
    Don't forget Perez, the way he drew Dick flipping around or leaping through the air was incredible. Not as fluid as McDaniel but it just feels solid like they are still frames of an acrobat in motion.
    I think the main difference is that Perez will never be forgotten with respect to his contribution to Nightwing as a character. McDaniel is often overlooked in most discussions and it's criminal. That said, I agree entirely that Perez rendered Dick's agility wonderfully.

  5. #80
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    I think the main difference is that Perez will never be forgotten with respect to his contribution to Nightwing as a character. McDaniel is often overlooked in most discussions and it's criminal. That said, I agree entirely that Perez rendered Dick's agility wonderfully.
    And like I said, McDaniel was the first artist *I* saw who pulled off the acrobatics to such a high degree. Perez did a great job but I wouldn't read his NTT until several years after the Dixon-McDaniel era of Nightwing had ended. I got into comics in the early 90's, wouldn't discover the Titans until Zero Hour, and then Dick was off the team and I wouldn't see him return until....JLA/Titans, I guess?

    And I think Perez does a great job; the guy's talent cannot be oversold. I mean, he's a living legend in the field. but McDaniel made Dick straight up kinetic. In the same way that some artists can make Superman look like he can knock over a mountain while standing still, McD made Nightwing look like there was no feat of agility he couldnt perform; he was right up there with Spider-Man in terms of raw, OG parkour.

    As for the Dixon run....I think maybe a lot of old Titans fans were rubbed wrong but the way the series abandoned everything about Dick except for the Bat parts. We barely saw any of Wally or Roy, I don't think we saw Kori at all, and Dick was dealing with street level issues instead of the wider range of threats we saw in NTT. And if you weren't there at the time, to go back and read the Dixon run now.....it probably doesnt look all that impressive. It wouldn't stand out today like it did then because we've had virtually nothing except street level from Nightwing ever since.
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  6. #81
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    And like I said, McDaniel was the first artist *I* saw who pulled off the acrobatics to such a high degree. Perez did a great job but I wouldn't read his NTT until several years after the Dixon-McDaniel era of Nightwing had ended. I got into comics in the early 90's, wouldn't discover the Titans until Zero Hour, and then Dick was off the team and I wouldn't see him return until....JLA/Titans, I guess?

    And I think Perez does a great job; the guy's talent cannot be oversold. I mean, he's a living legend in the field. but McDaniel made Dick straight up kinetic. In the same way that some artists can make Superman look like he can knock over a mountain while standing still, McD made Nightwing look like there was no feat of agility he couldnt perform; he was right up there with Spider-Man in terms of raw, OG parkour.

    As for the Dixon run....I think maybe a lot of old Titans fans were rubbed wrong but the way the series abandoned everything about Dick except for the Bat parts. We barely saw any of Wally or Roy, I don't think we saw Kori at all, and Dick was dealing with street level issues instead of the wider range of threats we saw in NTT. And if you weren't there at the time, to go back and read the Dixon run now.....it probably doesnt look all that impressive. It wouldn't stand out today like it did then because we've had virtually nothing except street level from Nightwing ever since.
    Dick is just as much a DC/Titans character as his a Bat character. I think he needs a Dixon like execution to return to a more middle ground of these two worlds. A lot of modern Dick especially in solo stories lean too much in the Bat direction.

    Dick needs a new solo that really pushes him more into the DCU but I can't see something like this happening with the current management.
    "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does? - Gaff Blade Runner

    "In a short time, this will be a long time ago." - Werner Slow West

    "One of the biggest problems in the industry is apathy right now." - Dan Didio Co-Publisher of I Wonder Why That Is Comics

  7. #82
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by byrd156 View Post
    Dick is just as much a DC/Titans character as his a Bat character. I think he needs a Dixon like execution to return to a more middle ground of these two worlds. A lot of modern Dick especially in solo stories lean too much in the Bat direction.

    Dick needs a new solo that really pushes him more into the DCU but I can't see something like this happening with the current management.
    Agreed on all points. Including, regretfully, the last.

    Anyone have Didio's number? Give me an hour and I can sell him on Dick Grayson. I have a lot of experience in sales (Im actually pretty impressive there) and I'm pretty good with marketing and business theory. I can convince him to let Nightwing fly free.

    I think what Dick could benefit from right now is an approach in the vein of that Batman: Brave & The Bold cartoon from some years ago. That put Bruce in all kinds of crazy Silver Age-ish adventures and he would travel space, time, go to other dimensions, and exotic locations around the DCU. You barely saw the guy in Gotham and he'd fight vampires, metahumans, aliens, monsters, and gods just as often (if not more) than thugs, bank robbers, terrorists and psychopaths. I think Nightwing could fill such a role very easily, I think it'd fit him like a glove, and I dont think we really have a book like that in DC's schedule. We have a few characters like Superman who hit many of those notes, but no one without powers even comes close, really, with the occasional exception of Bruce and that's mostly tied to the League, and thus doesnt totally count. Combine all that with a unique niche and role for Dick (like being the DCU super-spy we always talk about) and you've got a formula that just might get Nightwing over the sales ceiling he's currently limited by.

    As for Dixon.....when he took the character on Dick had just returned to the Bat office, and they were trying to distance the character from the declining Titans franchise. I get why they forced Nightwing back into street level and pushed his ties with the Bat and Gotham while ignoring almost everything else. At the time it was kind of novel and new because we hadn't seen Dick like that in a long time. It fit the gritty 90's, especially with the Titans burning away into irrelevance. But that was two decades ago and it's past time to let Dick stretch his wings again.

    #MakeNightwingFlyAgain
    Last edited by Ascended; 01-05-2019 at 08:02 PM.
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  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Agreed on all points. Including, regretfully, the last.

    Anyone have Didio's number? Give me an hour and I can sell him on Dick Grayson. I have a lot of experience in sales (Im actually pretty impressive there) and I'm pretty good with marketing and business theory. I can convince him to let Nightwing fly free.
    If you can sell Didio on Dick Grayson, I'll buy you a plane ticket to the DC offices.

  9. #84
    Mighty Member dropkickjake's Avatar
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    So I finally read Nightwing: The Untouchable

    That was so much better than I expected it to be. Don't know why I didn't give it a chance sooner. I really liked the Judge. I really liked Lucy. I really liked how central the Vegas feel of Bludhaven was to the story. Wish Humphries had stayed on, actually.

  10. #85
    Incredible Member Avi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dropkickjake View Post
    So I finally read Nightwing: The Untouchable

    That was so much better than I expected it to be. Don't know why I didn't give it a chance sooner. I really liked the Judge. I really liked Lucy. I really liked how central the Vegas feel of Bludhaven was to the story. Wish Humphries had stayed on, actually.
    I read it all in one go as well and I guess it dpes read better that way, especially with the knowledge that Humphries was not writing for the long run.

    The Judge is still a compelling villain, that could be used by others again.

    Blüdhaven had more of a Vegas vibe tham even under Seeley and the glittery inner city was in beautiful contrast to the sunken city of its past.

  11. #86
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oasis1313 View Post
    If you can sell Didio on Dick Grayson, I'll buy you a plane ticket to the DC offices.
    I think the hard part would be getting *into* the office to talk to the man. But I'm willing to bet I could talk Didio into treating Dick better. He's listened to reason in the past and I think I could get him to listen to me now. I've had to deal with harder clients.
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  12. #87
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I think the hard part would be getting *into* the office to talk to the man. But I'm willing to bet I could talk Didio into treating Dick better. He's listened to reason in the past and I think I could get him to listen to me now. I've had to deal with harder clients.
    No need for the office, just ask him at the next con QnA

  13. #88
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dropkickjake View Post
    So I finally read Nightwing: The Untouchable

    That was so much better than I expected it to be. Don't know why I didn't give it a chance sooner. I really liked the Judge. I really liked Lucy. I really liked how central the Vegas feel of Bludhaven was to the story. Wish Humphries had stayed on, actually.
    My one real issue with that story was that Dick’s character didn’t really get anything out of it. Nothing culminated for him or his character.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 01-06-2019 at 07:16 PM.

  14. #89
    Mighty Member dropkickjake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    My one real issue with that story was that Dick’s character didn’t really get anything out of it. Nothing culminated for him or is character.
    I dont think he needs to "get" anything out of it. He was a good detective and took down a pretty well developed villain. I enjoyed the worldbuilding of this graphic novel way more than the world building Seeley did in Bludhaven. Plus, Judge was a good foil villain for Dick. I also liked his zany backstory. Lots to like in the story overall.

  15. #90
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    No need for the office, just ask him at the next con QnA
    A con isn't the place for the conversation this would require, I think. There'd be really boring, dry business elements to discuss that have little place at a panel and 95% of the people there wouldn't understand a word of it. Plus, a panel is supposed to be fun, where the creators and fans talk about what they're excited about. Didio wouldn't thank me for telling him, publicly, that the company is undervaluing one of their IP's, and certainly wouldn't want to hear any solutions I might cook up after embarrassing him like that. I'd be lucky if he didn't have me thrown out on my ass, and rightfully so if I ambushed him like that.

    Not to mention it's a conversation that would take more than the couple minutes and two sentence answers cons usually give.

    And that's all assuming, of course, that I have as firm a grip on the business side as I think I might and Dick actually *is* being undervalued. The data we have access to leads me to believe it (as well as my own bias, let's be honest here ) but just because I don't have access to that data doesn't mean it's not there and doesn't prove my opinion wrong.

    No, what I'd need is to stumble on Didio at a bar afterwards where it'd be less public, we'd have more time to talk, and I could outline the details on how I think Dick could become more profitable without stepping on Batman's revenue. Assuming he'd even listen to some random dude telling him his business. And while I might be a pretty solid business student, the emphasis there is on *student* and despite my managerial experience I dont work in publishing and there's tricks to that industry I don't know about. Honestly, even if I'm 100% right about all of it, Didio would be foolish to give me the time of day. I have no pedigree here. Im just talking mostly out of my own ass.
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