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  1. #691
    Spectacular Member askani_son's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    Cable (2018) #10 - SERIES FINALE!!!
    X-FORCE #10
    MAY190901
    (W) Ed Brisson (A) Dylan Burnett (CA) Valerio Schiti
    With Rachel Summers under his control, Stryfe and his Mutant Liberation Front finally have the power to secure their futures - at the cost of everyone else's. Will Cable and his X-Force be able to stop them, or will the time stream be forever altered? Find out in this final showdown!

    Yes, I dont know if I must cry, will return Rachel in this issue?

  2. #692

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    Quote Originally Posted by askani_son View Post
    X-FORCE #10
    MAY190901
    (W) Ed Brisson (A) Dylan Burnett (CA) Valerio Schiti
    With Rachel Summers under his control, Stryfe and his Mutant Liberation Front finally have the power to secure their futures - at the cost of everyone else's. Will Cable and his X-Force be able to stop them, or will the time stream be forever altered? Find out in this final showdown!

    Yes, I dont know if I must cry, will return Rachel in this issue?
    I think this is the end of Rachel for a long time. She will either get killed, depowered, or just left in the future. From this description I think she only appears in HoX/PoX as a flashback memory of being one of the Phoenix hosts and nothing more than that. She has absolutely no agency in this story, and that tells me the writer doesn't want to give her agency at all, so she is going to end this story with no power over her own fate.

  3. #693
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    Quote Originally Posted by RachelGrey View Post
    I think this is the end of Rachel for a long time. She will either get killed, depowered, or just left in the future. From this description I think she only appears in HoX/PoX as a flashback memory of being one of the Phoenix hosts and nothing more than that. She has absolutely no agency in this story, and that tells me the writer doesn't want to give her agency at all, so she is going to end this story with no power over her own fate.
    It was pretty obvious since Jean's return that she would be shafted. It was always a matter of when.

  4. #694
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaishakh View Post
    It was pretty obvious since Jean's return that she would be shafted. It was always a matter of when.
    They don't want them to coexist at the same time! Rachel just came back after Jean's death, there's no reason for them to keep her now that Jean is back to keep her around. That's always been that way, and looks like it will always be, hence the handful of times they met and their sad absence of relationship.

  5. #695
    Mighty Member Maestro 216's Avatar
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    Ugh we only had Jean Rachel moments in Red and Extermination.

  6. #696
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mogwen View Post
    They don't want them to coexist at the same time! Rachel just came back after Jean's death, there's no reason for them to keep her now that Jean is back to keep her around. That's always been that way, and looks like it will always be, hence the handful of times they met and their sad absence of relationship.
    Not really. They both coexisted for about a decade the last time Jean came back from the dead

  7. #697
    Astonishing Member Askani's Flame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Not really. They both coexisted for about a decade the last time Jean came back from the dead
    Depends on your definition of co-existence. Were they both in comic books during the same period of time? Yes. Were they in the same line of comics and allowed to interact or acknowledge each other? No, not at all. If not for Claremont's continual pushing we would not have had any interaction for longer than what we got. It's always been a cycle where if Jean returns, Rachel goes away for a period of time and then moves to wallpaper or an outlier group so that they don't have to co-exist within the same team or homefront. Happened when Jean first came back - Rachel goes to Mojo-verse and then comes back to form Excalibur based across the ocean from Jean. No interactions allowed until Days of Future Present. Then Rachel goes back to the UK until right before the wedding and then boom shunted to the future. This is when Excalibur becomes more ingrained with X-events, so go figure. Jean dies, Rachel comes back. Hope/Jean is coming back, Rachel goes to space. Rachel comes back, she's moved away from Hope (almost the same treatment as Jean lol). Jeen arrives, Rachel disappears for several issues of WatX so they don't interact. Then Jeen goes to Canada so no more interacting. Rachel returns to X-Men after IvX because Jeen moves to Madripoor. Jean returns in shortly after Rachel becomes a punching bag and then is made a hound and goes away. To be clear, this has nothing to do with Jean as a character but the fact that writers and editors make choices to keep them separate and it just looks bad.

    And I agree, I don't think that issue 10 will be a good sign for Rachel. If the past two years is any indication they do not have any interest in her as a character and she will disappear by the end of 10, whether to re-establish a timeline for a lame reason or through death.

  8. #698
    Astonishing Member Askani's Flame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maestro 216 View Post
    Ugh we only had Jean Rachel moments in Red and Extermination.
    Correction, we only had Jean-Rachel moments in Red or Gold. Jean did not interact with Rachel in any meaningful way in Extermination. They only time they spoke to each other was when Rachel tried to correct Jean that this wasn't Ahab who killed Cable. Otherwise Jean took no interest in talking to or interacting with Rachel. And we all know how the last panel was read, so again I say nothing in Extermination. You want good interactions, see Red and Red Annual. You want bad ones, see Gold or Extermination.

  9. #699
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Askani's Flame View Post
    Depends on your definition of co-existence. Were they both in comic books during the same period of time? Yes. Were they in the same line of comics and allowed to interact or acknowledge each other? No, not at all. If not for Claremont's continual pushing we would not have had any interaction for longer than what we got. It's always been a cycle where if Jean returns, Rachel goes away for a period of time and then moves to wallpaper or an outlier group so that they don't have to co-exist within the same team or homefront. Happened when Jean first came back - Rachel goes to Mojo-verse and then comes back to form Excalibur based across the ocean from Jean. No interactions allowed until Days of Future Present. Then Rachel goes back to the UK until right before the wedding and then boom shunted to the future. This is when Excalibur becomes more ingrained with X-events, so go figure. Jean dies, Rachel comes back. Hope/Jean is coming back, Rachel goes to space. Rachel comes back, she's moved away from Hope (almost the same treatment as Jean lol). Jeen arrives, Rachel disappears for several issues of WatX so they don't interact. Then Jeen goes to Canada so no more interacting. Rachel returns to X-Men after IvX because Jeen moves to Madripoor. Jean returns in shortly after Rachel becomes a punching bag and then is made a hound and goes away. To be clear, this has nothing to do with Jean as a character but the fact that writers and editors make choices to keep them separate and it just looks bad.

    And I agree, I don't think that issue 10 will be a good sign for Rachel. If the past two years is any indication they do not have any interest in her as a character and she will disappear by the end of 10, whether to re-establish a timeline for a lame reason or through death.
    always a cycle? Jean's only had 2 major returns and yes Im talking about being in the books at the same time. Heck, Rachel was kept around when they brought Jean back for All New X-men. Rachel had a lengthy, productive stint in Excalibur whereas all she had was Gold and may likely have none in the coming months. Thats quite different than how she was handled in the mid 80s

  10. #700
    Incredible Member Alphaxman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    always a cycle? Jean's only had 2 major returns and yes Im talking about being in the books at the same time. Heck, Rachel was kept around when they brought Jean back for All New X-men. Rachel had a lengthy, productive stint in Excalibur whereas all she had was Gold and may likely have none in the coming months. Thats quite different than how she was handled in the mid 80s
    I always wanted to know why Excalibur didn't interact with the X-Men and X-Factor during Inferno. I know the New Mutants didn't didn't either, and I guess Chris still wanted most of the world to think the X-Men dead, but I thought it was a wasted moment. Rachel had the Phoenix force, and the force was involved in that Jean/Madelyne bonding thing, so I can't see why Rachel couldn't sense her former friends were there after she was freed from the mannequin.

  11. #701
    Extraordinary Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alphaxman View Post
    Rachel had the Phoenix force
    When the X-Men have access to a trump card like a Phoenix, you can't tell stories about demons and magic when a cosmic goddess can curbstomp anything in her way.

  12. #702
    Astonishing Member Askani's Flame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    always a cycle? Jean's only had 2 major returns and yes Im talking about being in the books at the same time. Heck, Rachel was kept around when they brought Jean back for All New X-men. Rachel had a lengthy, productive stint in Excalibur whereas all she had was Gold and may likely have none in the coming months. Thats quite different than how she was handled in the mid 80s
    Yeah, I'd say a cycle would accurately describe it for me. Adult Jean only has come back twice, which is correct. I also count the lead-in to Hope as it was another red-headed Phoenix character coming on the scene.Rachel was super productive, but they were purposely kept completely separate. Excalibur was sent across the multiverse so they could not interact or affect any mutant storylines happening on the X-front. They were ancillary involved with Inferno, but not allowed to interact with the X-Men or X-Factor. It wasn't until after Rachel returned being healed that they slowly became more involved with the X-verse. And as soon as the wedding hit, poof she was gone.

    As for all All New X-Men - Rachel became a ghost in her own book where she was limited in being shown to being described as being out on a mission while everyone was interacting with the Teen O5. The MOST they ever interacted during the time that teen O5 were living at the mansion were the two hallway run-ins and the one time where Rachel forced a TP skill on Jean in BotA. Otherwise as soon as BotA finished there was a new base so Rachel could come back to WatX because Jean was gone. Again, she was made an outlier or wallpaper until Jean moved away. Writer mandated. Bendis didn't want to write anything for Rachel and Jean and he got so much fan pressure made a mock issue just to shut us up which was a repeat performance of Jean pushing Rachel away.

  13. #703
    Astonishing Member Askani's Flame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alphaxman View Post
    I always wanted to know why Excalibur didn't interact with the X-Men and X-Factor during Inferno. I know the New Mutants didn't didn't either, and I guess Chris still wanted most of the world to think the X-Men dead, but I thought it was a wasted moment. Rachel had the Phoenix force, and the force was involved in that Jean/Madelyne bonding thing, so I can't see why Rachel couldn't sense her former friends were there after she was freed from the mannequin.
    She knew they were there, she decided to keep that to herself. There was that follow-up issue in Excalibur when she's playing with NC through a window and avoiding being found by Jean. They never gave a good reason why she didn't say anything, but really it was because the writers didn't want the Phoenix involved with their stories so they sent Excalibur packing across the multiverse in the Cross-Time Capers.

  14. #704
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Askani's Flame View Post
    Yeah, I'd say a cycle would accurately describe it for me. Adult Jean only has come back twice, which is correct. I also count the lead-in to Hope as it was another red-headed Phoenix character coming on the scene.Rachel was super productive, but they were purposely kept completely separate. Excalibur was sent across the multiverse so they could not interact or affect any mutant storylines happening on the X-front. They were ancillary involved with Inferno, but not allowed to interact with the X-Men or X-Factor. It wasn't until after Rachel returned being healed that they slowly became more involved with the X-verse. And as soon as the wedding hit, poof she was gone.

    As for all All New X-Men - Rachel became a ghost in her own book where she was limited in being shown to being described as being out on a mission while everyone was interacting with the Teen O5. The MOST they ever interacted during the time that teen O5 were living at the mansion were the two hallway run-ins and the one time where Rachel forced a TP skill on Jean in BotA. Otherwise as soon as BotA finished there was a new base so Rachel could come back to WatX because Jean was gone. Again, she was made an outlier or wallpaper until Jean moved away. Writer mandated. Bendis didn't want to write anything for Rachel and Jean and he got so much fan pressure made a mock issue just to shut us up which was a repeat performance of Jean pushing Rachel away.
    Rachel had two books when Jean was brought in during ANX. She may have had a diminished role in WATX, but she was featured prominently in the all female X-men v4 book

  15. #705
    Incredible Member Alphaxman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    When the X-Men have access to a trump card like a Phoenix, you can't tell stories about demons and magic when a cosmic goddess can curbstomp anything in her way.
    The Cross Time Caper showed that Rachel had problems with magic and wasn't the go-to problem solver. Chris did extremely well limiting what Rachel could do with the Phoenix. And I really was talking about after Kitty freed Rachel from the mannequin. By that time the X-Men and X-Factor were still at the Empire State building and Excalibar were across the street or a few blocks away (I can't remember how far she'd bounced after being blasted by the Goblin Queen. Remember, her brother's well being was the reason Rachel raced to New York and the first place.
    And I know she found him later on a plane with Scott and Jean and she placed a physic bond with him. As a kid I just thought she would have raced up there immediately after being freed. Like her first thought would be to see about Chris (Nate), and then be like, "OMG... Storm, Peter, Rogue... you're alive?!?" And then blast Logan of the building for gutting her before. Well maybe not the last part. But I would have loved to see it.

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