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  1. #2071
    Astonishing Member AbnormallyNormal's Avatar
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    Glad Rachel was in an issue

    But her characterization was so off and weird to me

    I'm chalking it up to "PTSD after being with Ahab"

    I also want them to explain how she even got out of that situation lol... still hasn't been done.

    Hoping for more with her, because yeah she came off a bit "weak" (so did her bro of course)
    "So many killers... so much screaming... so many dying. I didn't know where to turn, who to help - which sentinel to stop first. And with the accusations of human judgement screaming in my ears... all I could think was that he was right. MAGNETO HAD BEEN RIGHT ALL ALONG!"

  2. #2072
    Astonishing Member Askani's Flame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbnormallyNormal View Post
    Glad Rachel was in an issue

    But her characterization was so off and weird to me

    I'm chalking it up to "PTSD after being with Ahab"

    I also want them to explain how she even got out of that situation lol... still hasn't been done.

    Hoping for more with her, because yeah she came off a bit "weak" (so did her bro of course)
    You mean outside of X-Force? Because they showed how Stryfe broke her hound conditioning with his Krang-trio of telepaths, and then the astral form of Mother Askani came to Rachel and empowered her to break free.

  3. #2073

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    Quote Originally Posted by Askani's Flame View Post
    You mean outside of X-Force? Because they showed how Stryfe broke her hound conditioning with his Krang-trio of telepaths, and then the astral form of Mother Askani came to Rachel and empowered her to break free.
    Well technically they didn't break her conditioning they broke her connection to Ahab so that they could control her instead. I am pretty sure Stryfe wanted to keep her as a hound indefinitely if he could, he just need to break her connection to Ahab because she wouldn't obey anyone else!

    Personally I think Rachel actually died in X-Force 9, the strain put on her by the Krangs to keep her under control, I think it killed her, and when she resurrected the Mother Askani consciousness was able to reach her inner mind and wake her up from the conditioning. At the very least Rachel reached a point where own astral from was unlinked from her body for a moment in time and it allowed Mother Askani to touch her mind and they could talk to each other. I also think Mother Askani gave Rachel all the memories so now Rachel has an entire lifetime of knowledge inside her of being Mother Askani. I really hope that Rachel changes her name to Askani at some point in the current Dawn of X!
    We are MUTANT..Krakoa, FOREVER!!! “Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité”

  4. #2074

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    Quote Originally Posted by Askani5 View Post
    Sometimes it’s best to just accept their new characterization to better appreciate the story. The X-Men have a very rich complicated history and every so often a new writer would come in and spice things up. Before I would get frustrated because there are always some discrepancy or inconsistency with the characterization or the history. The truth is it’s a lost cause, the new writer will do whatever they want lol. I’m just glad she’s not brainwashed, tortured and imprisoned. It’s good that she is portrayed with limitations and flaws because it give her enough room to grow. Besides, I’m glad to see her have some family time. She’s been complaining about spending time with her mom and dad for decades. One of the Summers is always dead or on the brink of it, I’m glad they finally have some time to be a dysfunctional family just like the rest of us.

    What?! Isn't this the making of a terrible writer, I mean sure writers and authors interpret characters and situations differently. But the past or actual stories of a character should influence how their portrayed, if Rachel has been supplanted with a new personality we as fans should comment on it. These sentiments seem to be shared by multiple readers because they like Hickman. But many of his character voices have been off, and not in the good way!!

  5. #2075
    Astonishing Member Askani's Flame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RachelGrey View Post
    Well technically they didn't break her conditioning they broke her connection to Ahab so that they could control her instead. I am pretty sure Stryfe wanted to keep her as a hound indefinitely if he could, he just need to break her connection to Ahab because she wouldn't obey anyone else!
    Well that's the thing, the hound programming is conditional to Ahab. They the Krang-trio made it clear that they couldn't control Rachel to be their pawn until they broke the hound conditioning which would always supplant their attempts. Once they broke the conditioning they could commandeer her for their use but only if they stopped controlling the other mutants as she was fighting them every step of the way. Stryfe had no use for her once he used her to ferret out the Askani, and made it clear as they stopped maintaining control over her assuming she was a non threat.

    Personally I think Rachel actually died in X-Force 9, the strain put on her by the Krangs to keep her under control, I think it killed her, and when she resurrected the Mother Askani consciousness was able to reach her inner mind and wake her up from the conditioning. At the very least Rachel reached a point where own astral from was unlinked from her body for a moment in time and it allowed Mother Askani to touch her mind and they could talk to each other. I also think Mother Askani gave Rachel all the memories so now Rachel has an entire lifetime of knowledge inside her of being Mother Askani. I really hope that Rachel changes her name to Askani at some point in the current Dawn of X!
    Only Brisson can tell us what happened between Mother Askani and Rachel (i.e. memory exchange and such). I don't share your belief of her death in X-Force as nothing in the books or dialogue support her actually dying. In fact, Mother Askani made it very clear that she was still being used while they were conversing and needed to fight back. I do think that Mother Askani reached out to Rachel, as she has been shown to exist outside of time and space as a non-corporeal psychic entity, in order to preserve the timeline and save Rachel. It would be interesting if Rachel did have her memories and experiences, but I highly doubt Hickman will pick up on that.

  6. #2076
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    yeah I never read that as Rachel dying. I think a bigger deal would have been made. She fought back; she wasnt resurrected

  7. #2077
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    Brisson shoul've used Madame Sanctity instead of those Krangs

  8. #2078
    Astonishing Member Askani's Flame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerridwen View Post
    Brisson shoul've used Madame Sanctity instead of those Krangs
    Well the problem is that Sanctity had finished betraying Strfye by this point so he won't work with her either.

    Meanwhile, I don't think this future can exist anymore with how drastically Hickman has changed the future with his world building.

  9. #2079

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    Quote Originally Posted by niconico00 View Post
    "Right. Good idea. I should've thought of that": this line is hilarious...
    Apparently Rachel forgot that she's a telepath...

    Anytime a character forgets to use their powers in a logical or reasonable context, an eye-roll is usually my response. How does a telepath who helped teach an entire island a language forget that she could use this ability against an enemy?

  10. #2080
    Incredible Member ClanAskani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celestialbodies View Post
    What?! Isn't this the making of a terrible writer, I mean sure writers and authors interpret characters and situations differently. But the past or actual stories of a character should influence how their portrayed, if Rachel has been supplanted with a new personality we as fans should comment on it. These sentiments seem to be shared by multiple readers because they like Hickman. But many of his character voices have been off, and not in the good way!!
    This is where there needs to be an editor who does more than just correct typos and send the book to the printer. The editor should serve as a story editor who would tell a tv writer that they aren't being consistent. But with comics now, writers get to set their own new status quo and do whatever they want.

    The issue wasn't bad but I wish Hickman was a better writer since we get so little of Rachel, Scott and Nathan together that it's disappointing that there wasn't better writing.

  11. #2081
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClanAskani View Post
    The issue wasn't bad but I wish Hickman was a better writer since we get so little of Rachel, Scott and Nathan together that it's disappointing that there wasn't better writing.
    It could have been better but what is important is that it sets a precedent of them acting as a family. They are not strangers anymore
    Other writers on the future can use this to write them together.

    I just hope Marvel doesn't forget about Jean interacting with Rachel and Cable too.
    Last edited by phoenixzero23; 11-16-2019 at 01:13 PM.
    My opinions are my own

  12. #2082
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    It could have been better but what is important is that it sets a precedent of them acting as a family. They are not strangers anymore
    Other writers on the future can use this to write them together.

    I just hope Marvel doesn't forget about Jean interacting with Rachel and Cable too.
    These characters werent strangers before. The only relationship thats really been underdeveloped has been Jean and Rachel, and well Jean wasnt here

  13. #2083
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    These characters werent strangers before.
    They weren't strangers but they didn't have the time to act like they were related much before, now they do, now they recognize the other as family without doubt. I remember people questioning Rachel's parentage or if Cable counted as Jean's son. Those things are now set on stone, they love each other.

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    The only relationship thats really been underdeveloped has been Jean and Rachel, and well Jean wasnt here
    Yes, It has been underdeveloped and Jean is finally here. Marvel should let them interact more too.
    Last edited by phoenixzero23; 11-16-2019 at 04:14 PM.
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  14. #2084

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    Maybe Jean will take Rachel on a mission with her in X-Force eventually and then we can get some interactions with them. I will keep my fingers crossed. X-Men is centred on Scott so when Rachel appears there it will most be in the roll of Scott's daughter, my feeling is even when Rachel rotates onto X-Men occasionally she will mostly interact with her Dad there.

    I don't actually expect Rachel to get much character development, I think she is going to be nothing more than Scott and Jean's daughter and they probably won't explore much of her current psychological state or her own current thoughts on things. Rachel is going to be a periphery character that exists to further Scott, Jean, and Nathan's story!
    We are MUTANT..Krakoa, FOREVER!!! “Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité”

  15. #2085
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    I think it is better than being out of the books, I still hope there is something with a bit more focus on here but it doesn't seem likely at the moment.
    My opinions are my own

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