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  1. #2101
    Astonishing Member Askani's Flame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Im drawing blanks outside of Claremont's run which was almost 15 years ago. I dont recall them interacting during the Bendis/WATX era nor IvX, which would be the only time they'd have had any singificant overlap in the books
    They interacted at the start of WaxT where Emma was being snarky to both her and Kitty, and Rachel and Kitty threatened to make diamond earrings out of her. I think the next time they interacted was either during BotA and/or during the Matthew Mallory run. Again, snarky to each other. But those were the limited interactions. Rachel was essentially not allowed to play with Bendis toys (Emma, Jeen, Tyke, Cyke, etc) and that carried through Gold until Bunn was adamant about using Rachel and Tyke together.

  2. #2102
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    I wonder why marvel treats Rachel's interactions with Scott and Jean so different.
    I mean Cyclops is not the father of the year but he is not bad with Rachel, he has been pretty acceptive with her. And writers have never screw their interactions too much. Even with Tyke, they didn't interact much, like only two times but it was nice.
    And now adult Cyclops is trying to be a good dad for Rachel.

    Meanwhile with Jeen they mostly avoided eachother. I seriously hope Marvel doesn't forget or avoids their interactions again now with adult Jean. They don't have to be huge but something even small would be cute
    Last edited by phoenixzero23; 12-02-2019 at 12:23 PM.

  3. #2103
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    I wonder why marvel treats Rachel's interactions with Scott and Jean so different.
    I mean Cyclops is not the father of the year but he is not bad with Rachel, he has been pretty acceptive with her. And writers have never screw their interactions too much. Even with Tyke, they didn't interact much, like only two times but it was nice.
    And now adult Cyclops is trying to be a good dad for Rachel.

    Meanwhile With Jeen they mostly avoided eachother. I seriously hope Marvel doesn't forget or avoids their interactions again now with adult Jean. They don't have to be huge but something even if small would be cute
    I think it all goes back to Jean's first reaction to Rachel. Jean is supposed to have been past that since the '90s but some writers don't get the memo.

  4. #2104
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    I wonder why marvel treats Rachel's interactions with Scott and Jean so different.
    I mean Cyclops is not the father of the year but he is not bad with Rachel, he has been pretty acceptive with her. And writers have never screw their interactions too much. Even with Tyke, they didn't interact much, like only two times but it was nice.
    And now adult Cyclops is trying to be a good dad for Rachel.

    Meanwhile with Jeen they mostly avoided eachother. I seriously hope Marvel doesn't forget or avoids their interactions again now with adult Jean. They don't have to be huge but something even small would be cute
    Cyclops interacting with Rachel in the capacity as a family member is a relatively recent thing in her history and this only happened after Jean died. Jean is alive now and Marvel hasnt ignored their relationship as they've been interacting as well. Maybe not as much as many would like but 2018-2019 was more than they had from 1986-2004

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    I think it all goes back to Jean's first reaction to Rachel. Jean is supposed to have been past that since the '90s but some writers don't get the memo.
    IDA. Jean is not hostile towards Rachel as she was in DOFP. People like to go to one panel in Gold which I took it as playful snark that Jean throws back at Rachel, whom initiates it. They were just having positive interactions at the wedding together (along with teen Jean) and if Jean didnt care about Rachel's well being, she'd have told Kitty she were busy and to get Psylocke to do a TP check on her
    Last edited by Havok83; 12-02-2019 at 12:33 PM.

  5. #2105
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    IDA. Jean is not hostile towards Rachel as she was in DOFP. People like to go to one panel in Gold which I took it as playful snark that Jean throws back at Rachel, whom initiates it. They were just having positive interactions at the wedding together (along with teen Jean) and if Jean didnt care about Rachel's well being, she'd have told Kitty she were busy and to get Psylocke to do a TP check on her
    On both Extermination and the Gold wedding issue, Jean is more concerned and pays more attention to Jeen than Rachel. Of course Jean is not hostile, but I think some writers take her first reaction as a sign that she would never accept Rachel as her daughter. So the idea is that she's not freaking out about it anymore but she's more like apathetic towards her.

  6. #2106
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    Jean was pretty nice to Rachel on X-men Red that is her best and most important portrayal in ages.

    I think that Jean was very confused when she met rachel but she didn't have any ill will. She had just come back from the death and suddenly she was taking care of baby Cable and also had an evil clone. Those are like three big issues, She was a bit confused about where she was and where was her life going.

    It is weird that some people make Jean of all people be the problematic one when she is what people would call of "the motherly type"
    Last edited by phoenixzero23; 12-02-2019 at 01:05 PM. Reason: So many mistakes

  7. #2107

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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    Jean was pretty nice to Rachel on X-men Red that is her best and most important portrayal in ages.

    I think that Jean was very confused when she met rachel but she didn't have any ill will. She had just come back from the death and suddenly she was taking care of baby Cable and also had an evil clone. She was a bit confused about were she was and were was her life going.

    It is weird that some people make Jean of all people be the problematic one when she is what you call of "the motherly type".
    I think some of the posters are right. They remember Jean and Rachel's interaction from Days of Future Present and they don't know about the rest.

    Jean reconciled with and accepted Rachel in Excalibur and in the Wedding issue that occurred just before Rachel was lost in time. Then again in "The Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix" mini series too.

    And you are right of course, they were portrayed as close to each other in X-Men Red under a different writer. It was the writer of Gold who wrote them as estranged and I think because he didn't really care about canon history at all and just wrote what he wanted for certain characters.
    We are MUTANT..Krakoa, FOREVER!!! “Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité”

  8. #2108
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RachelGrey View Post
    And you are right of course, they were portrayed as close to each other in X-Men Red under a different writer. It was the writer of Gold who wrote them as estranged and I think because he didn't really care about canon history at all and just wrote what he wanted for certain characters.
    He only cared about '80s Claremont continuity and was purposefuly trying to reash it. He constantly bragged about how Rachel and Kurt came from Claremont, not to mention the Claremont lineup, Kitty/Piotr, etc lol.

  9. #2109
    Astonishing Member Askani's Flame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    I wonder why marvel treats Rachel's interactions with Scott and Jean so different.
    I mean Cyclops is not the father of the year but he is not bad with Rachel, he has been pretty acceptive with her. And writers have never screw their interactions too much. Even with Tyke, they didn't interact much, like only two times but it was nice.
    And now adult Cyclops is trying to be a good dad for Rachel.

    Meanwhile with Jeen they mostly avoided eachother. I seriously hope Marvel doesn't forget or avoids their interactions again now with adult Jean. They don't have to be huge but something even small would be cute
    I think that because Rachel and Scott were teammates before she revealed herself to be his daughter, helps a little. But Rachel returning just as they were killing off Jean essentially gave writers the opportunity to have them interact in ways they never did before. Granted it wasn't a lot, sadly, but Scott had opportunities to spend time with her. Granted, Rachel was acting very much like a scorned child when Claremont brought her back so she wasn't having it with him and Emma. I think the best moment, which was never followed up on, was when her astral form was fading and he promised to save her. It was really touching but then it went nowhere. Granted Carey was sending Rogue and co, but sometimes it just takes a panel saying they were trying to make readers believe it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Cyclops interacting with Rachel in the capacity as a family member is a relatively recent thing in her history and this only happened after Jean died. Jean is alive now and Marvel hasnt ignored their relationship as they've been interacting as well. Maybe not as much as many would like but 2018-2019 was more than they had from 1986-2004



    IDA. Jean is not hostile towards Rachel as she was in DOFP. People like to go to one panel in Gold which I took it as playful snark that Jean throws back at Rachel, whom initiates it. They were just having positive interactions at the wedding together (along with teen Jean) and if Jean didnt care about Rachel's well being, she'd have told Kitty she were busy and to get Psylocke to do a TP check on her
    I don't use the Gold banter as what I go to. I use Extermination, the Exterminated, and other smaller moments during the failed wedding as signs that writes didn't care to read Red. Jean comes off exceedingly apathetic to Rachel in those moments. It is jarring as we saw some GREAT moments in red between the two of them, but again it was what the writers choose to do with them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    On both Extermination and the Gold wedding issue, Jean is more concerned and pays more attention to Jeen than Rachel. Of course Jean is not hostile, but I think some writers take her first reaction as a sign that she would never accept Rachel as her daughter. So the idea is that she's not freaking out about it anymore but she's more like apathetic towards her.
    Yes, I agree with you.

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    Jean was pretty nice to Rachel on X-men Red that is her best and most important portrayal in ages.

    I think that Jean was very confused when she met rachel but she didn't have any ill will. She had just come back from the death and suddenly she was taking care of baby Cable and also had an evil clone. She was a bit confused about were she was and where was her life going.

    It is weird that some people make Jean of all people be the problematic one when she is what people would call of "the motherly type
    I totally agree with you on what Jean's headspace was when "Days of Future Present" happened. So much had transpired and to add a future daughter Jean was overwhelmed. As Jean said herself, she lashed out when she meant to embrace because she felt like her future was solidfied for her without any choice.

    I think Rachel and Jean have both contributed to the awkwardness of their relationship. Rachel being written as Jean-obsessed and momma's girl throwing tantrums if she isn't the apple of Jean's eye. Jean (and Jeen) lashing out and ignoring her because she's problematic to how they envision their future. but Jean is subjective in her mothering. I saw more of a motherly attitude to Nate Grey throughout the lead-in and exit of Age of X-Man than the one interaction with Rachel in Red or any other Jean-Rachel moment. It's not because Jean isn't motherly, it's because the writer's are making a choice for her. And writers still buy into the "Rachel and Jean can't co-exist with each other". I think Guggenheim can break that, if he writes Rachel again or properly.

  10. #2110
    Chris-chan of X-fans Maestroneto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    He only cared about '80s Claremont continuity and was purposefuly trying to reash it. He constantly bragged about how Rachel and Kurt came from Claremont, not to mention the Claremont lineup, Kitty/Piotr, etc lol.
    Kurchel is from ‘00s Claremont continuity lol.

  11. #2111
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maestroneto View Post
    Kurchel is from ‘00s Claremont continuity lol.
    Ok, I didn't read that. I didn't read much Excalibur either so I thought it was from that. Still, he was obviously just trying to rehash Claremont stuff.

  12. #2112
    Ultimate Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Askani's Flame View Post
    I think Rachel and Jean have both contributed to the awkwardness of their relationship. Rachel being written as Jean-obsessed and momma's girl throwing tantrums if she isn't the apple of Jean's eye. Jean (and Jeen) lashing out and ignoring her because she's problematic to how they envision their future. but Jean is subjective in her mothering. I saw more of a motherly attitude to Nate Grey throughout the lead-in and exit of Age of X-Man than the one interaction with Rachel in Red or any other Jean-Rachel moment. It's not because Jean isn't motherly, it's because the writer's are making a choice for her. And writers still buy into the "Rachel and Jean can't co-exist with each other". I think Guggenheim can break that, if he writes Rachel again or properly
    .
    why would you want that? seriously

  13. #2113
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Askani's Flame View Post
    I totally agree with you on what Jean's headspace was when "Days of Future Present" happened. So much had transpired and to add a future daughter Jean was overwhelmed. As Jean said herself, she lashed out when she meant to embrace because she felt like her future was solidfied for her without any choice.

    I think Rachel and Jean have both contributed to the awkwardness of their relationship. Rachel being written as Jean-obsessed and momma's girl throwing tantrums if she isn't the apple of Jean's eye. Jean (and Jeen) lashing out and ignoring her because she's problematic to how they envision their future. but Jean is subjective in her mothering. I saw more of a motherly attitude to Nate Grey throughout the lead-in and exit of Age of X-Man than the one interaction with Rachel in Red or any other Jean-Rachel moment. It's not because Jean isn't motherly, it's because the writer's are making a choice for her. And writers still buy into the "Rachel and Jean can't co-exist with each other". I think Guggenheim can break that, if he writes Rachel again or properly.
    there's also the fact that Rachel was a hound and bonded with the Phoenix Force. Jean was trying to make sense of that as she's heard plenty of awful stories of Dark Phoenix and had the memories of it within her so she experienced the destruction and it caused when it wore her face. She thouhgt everything with the Phoenix was resolved with Inferno/Judgement War and then we have a twisted Hound version of Rachel with the Phoenix raptor approaching Jean, claming to be her child. It was alot to take in that moment

  14. #2114
    Extraordinary Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    Kurchel is gross.

    Rachel’s partners need to be stolid.

  15. #2115
    Astonishing Member Askani's Flame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    why would you want that? seriously
    OH GOD!!!

    I meant Hickman! Strike me down if that filth every really came out of my mouth.

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