Rachel Summers/Grey Appreciation 2019

[Havok83]

I'm not good with writers and artists. I just remember runs basically. Can you remind me what work Bullen did? I actually didn't mind her portrayal in Gold except for how a rank amateur like Mesmero overwhelmed her.

He wrote the Civil War II and IvX X-men tie-ins which included her

[Celestialbodies]

I think it's true that writers don't have a good (or any) grasp on her character. So she's relegated to background or the same stories over and over again. And when you have a writer that expresses interest in developing her it's 50/50 on the turnout. Guggenheim said he had great things planned for Ray and look what Gold was... A fucking mess. Meanwhile Bullen didn't get the opportunity to utilize her when he wanted and he smashed it out of the park the few times he did.

I can't express in words how disappointing Gold turned out to be, but what he did with Rachel was a travesty he literally dismantled the character to her core only to then sloppily throw her back together.

[sungila]

I can't express in words how disappointing Gold turned out to be, but what he did with Rachel was a travesty he literally dismantled the character to her core only to then sloppily throw her back together.

There are so many reasons I will never ever ever read Gold. Mostly because my personal Kurt Rachel Kitty heart-cannon wouldn't survive the experience. It's so hard to unread and unsee things. So grateful for all the warnings to stay away from that horrible place.

It's still kinda hard though because all the enticing possibility! But exactly that for why NEVER.

It helps me just to imagine what if Seanan McGuire wrote that entire title

[Askani's Flame]

He wrote the Civil War II and IvX X-men tie-ins which included her

He also wrote a good Rachel during the Mojo crossover. He gave us the first real Rachel-Tyke moment.

[Celestialbodies]

There are so many reasons I will never ever ever read Gold. Mostly because my personal Kurt Rachel Kitty heart-cannon wouldn't survive the experience. It's so hard to unread and unsee things. So grateful for all the warnings to stay away from that horrible place.

It's still kinda hard though because all the enticing possibility! But exactly that for why NEVER.

It helps me just to imagine what if Seanan McGuire wrote that entire title

I hung on thinking at least there would be a payoff, only to realize after over thirty issues Guggs only plan for Rachel was to revisit all her greatest hits. Only to do them in literally the worse possible way our first hint should have been he believed Mesmero...MESMERO was a match for Rachel Summers.

He also wrote a good Rachel during the Mojo crossover. He gave us the first real Rachel-Tyke moment.

Bunn did very good by her, but I don't understand why writers are kept from using certain characters yet others are readily available across multiple series.

[Askani's Flame]

I hung on thinking at least there would be a payoff, only to realize after over thirty issues Guggs only plan for Rachel was to revisit all her greatest hits. Only to do them in literally the worse possible way our first hint should have been he believed Mesmero...MESMERO was a match for Rachel Summers.

Actually, he was more than her match. He schooled her several times which makes no sense since he wasn't even a real telepath until this run. For his favorite character, he really ruined Rachel and set her up for even more ruin in Red and Extermination/X-Force.

Bunn did very good by her, but I don't understand why writers are kept from using certain characters yet others are readily available across multiple series.

REASONS........

[Celestialbodies]

Actually, he was more than her match. He schooled her several times which makes no sense since he wasn't even a real telepath until this run. For his favorite character, he really ruined Rachel and set her up for even more ruin in Red and Extermination/X-Force.




REASONS........

Ugh, please don't remind me, haven't I suffered enough having brought it up? I'm trying to understand how he honestly believed that not only would Mesmero be her arch-rival. But that he would humiliate her multiple times even with two power ups, I'm still confused by the story he was trying to tell with her. All I'm coming up with is how "impressive" it was for her to read minds...in literally the next room!


Onto a nicer note, Cable has a new series can we start advocating for her to have appearances in that series?

[RachelGrey]

Ugh, please don't remind me, haven't I suffered enough having brought it up? I'm trying to understand how he honestly believed that not only would Mesmero be her arch-rival. But that he would humiliate her multiple times even with two power ups, I'm still confused by the story he was trying to tell with her. All I'm coming up with is how "impressive" it was for her to read minds...in literally the next room!


Onto a nicer note, Cable has a new series can we start advocating for her to have appearances in that series?

They know that Rachel is Cable's sister. They would have to be living under a rock not to know. The fact that she isn't already in it tells me that no one wants to use her for anything which just pisses me off at this point. Why didn't they just leave her in the future as Mother Askani and just drop her from the line since they have no intention of using her to do anything. At this point I just give up, I don't think any of the writers want to take Rachel on as a character, they have no ideas where she is concerned, and they have no idea of what to do with her going forward. Too many writers have messed up her characterization that all these damn writers just see her as predestined to be someone's slave at this point. Since that seems to be the common feeling of the X-writers then I would rather she get killed off instead of getting turned into a hound again.

[Celestialbodies]

They know that Rachel is Cable's sister. They would have to be living under a rock not to know. The fact that she isn't already in it tells me that no one wants to use her for anything which just pisses me off at this point. Why didn't they just leave her in the future as Mother Askani and just drop her from the line since they have no intention of using her to do anything. At this point I just give up, I don't think any of the writers want to take Rachel on as a character, they have no ideas where she is concerned, and they have no idea of what to do with her going forward. Too many writers have messed up her characterization that all these damn writers just see her as predestined to be someone's slave at this point. Since that seems to be the common feeling of the X-writers then I would rather she get killed off instead of getting turned into a hound again.

Let's not give up hope, over in that thread I stated her fans should be pushing her to writers, not saying it would work or if there's interest. What I do know is that Rachel has a lot of potential she just needs a writer who wants to do something meaningful. For better or worse, and mostly he was worse Aaron's one issue with her during AvX is the kind of TLC she needs and regrettable never gets.

[RachelGrey]

Let's not give up hope, over in that thread I stated her fans should be pushing her to writers, not saying it would work or if there's interest. What I do know is that Rachel has a lot of potential she just needs a writer who wants to do something meaningful. For better or worse, and mostly he was worse Aaron's one issue with her during AvX is the kind of TLC she needs and regrettable never gets.

This is what Marvel Unlimited is for, if I want to read about Rachel Summers I have to read back issues, because I give up on seeing her in Dawn of X and I am tired of trying to get writers to even talk about her. Most of them just think she should go back to being a hound again, or that she just complicates the stories for Jean and Scott too much. Jonathan Hickman did say he wanted to clean up some of the stories, well obviously the best way to clean up Scott and Jean is to just make Rachel cease to be a part of the ongoing narrative. Hence why I would rather they just left her in the future as Mother Askani since they don't want to use her anyway, because I am going to predict that if Rachel shows up again they are going to turn her into a hound once again because they have no idea what else to do with her and they obviously don't want to explore anything Phoenix related with her.

[Havok83]

Controversial opinion in here but I personally never saw it for Rachel. I used to really hated the concept of her existence and thought she was an unnecessary addition to the line especially when the one whom she was a replacement of sorts for, Jean, returned. Its only in recent years that Ive warmed up to and dont mind her. With that said, I still see her primarily as an extension of Scott and Jean and as such a supporting character to them and their development. Unfortunately for Rachel fans, I feel this is a view that most writers have and even less want to use her in that capacity

[phoenixzero23]

This is what Marvel Unlimited is for, if I want to read about Rachel Summers I have to read back issues, because I give up on seeing her in Dawn of X and I am tired of trying to get writers to even talk about her. Most of them just think she should go back to being a hound again, or that she just complicates the stories for Jean and Scott too much. Jonathan Hickman did say he wanted to clean up some of the stories, well obviously the best way to clean up Scott and Jean is to just make Rachel cease to be a part of the ongoing narrative. Hence why I would rather they just left her in the future as Mother Askani since they don't want to use her anyway, because I am going to predict that if Rachel shows up again they are going to turn her into a hound once again because they have no idea what else to do with her and they obviously don't want to explore anything Phoenix related with her.

Cheer up RachelGrey. I understand you are very passionate about the topic but you don't need to torture yourself being so pessimistic.
I don't think anybody is trying to erase her.

[Celestialbodies]

Controversial opinion in here but I personally never saw it for Rachel. I used to really hated the concept of her existence and thought she was an unnecessary addition to the line especially when the one whom she was a replacement of sorts for, Jean, returned. Its only in recent years that Ive warmed up to and dont mind her. With that said, I still see her primarily as an extension of Scott and Jean and as such a supporting character to them and their development. Unfortunately for Rachel fans, I feel this is a view that most writers have and even less want to use her in that capacity

If you don't mind could you elaborate on those feelings a little more? I only ask because I used to feel ambivalent towards her especially in Jean's absence, but then Cable was running around, and so was X-man, then Hope, then all of these characters with connections to Jean/Scott yet they were allowed to function in their own unique spaces. Even now I don't understand why or how the daughter of two of the most prominent members in the X-men isn't snatched up more by writers to do a variety of things.

The only thing I can see that held/holds Rachel back is how so much of her character had been existing in Jean's legacy ie. powers, costumes. But currently there seems to be so much potential there, I mean she could literally be anything if given the opportunity.

[Havok83]

If you don't mind could you elaborate on those feelings a little more? I only ask because I used to feel ambivalent towards her especially in Jean's absence, but then Cable was running around, and so was X-man, then Hope, then all of these characters with connections to Jean/Scott yet they were allowed to function in their own unique spaces. Even now I don't understand why or how the daughter of two of the most prominent members in the X-men isn't snatched up more by writers to do a variety of things.

The only thing I can see that held/holds Rachel back is how so much of her character had been existing in Jean's legacy ie. powers, costumes. But currently there seems to be so much potential there, I mean she could literally be anything if given the opportunity.

My earliest exposure to her was primarily Claremont and I hated how he wrote her. The whining and crying about Jean and Scott was bad in the 80s and worse in the 00s. She simply wasnt appealing. She seemed to be created to be Phoenix bc Jean wasnt around. I didnt read Excalibur bc it was so removed from the X-books, making her and stories feel overall irrelevant in the greater scheme of things. I did like her appearance in Cable's series in the late 90s but that went nowhere and she wasnt developed much from that.

I think I stopped disliking her after she returned to the X-men after her space adventure. She had the PF removed from her and under different writers which didnt emphasize her parentage, she started to feel like her own person for once. It was refreshing. Hated everything about Gold but I didnt dislike Prestige on principle bc Rachel taking an active step to not simply be a Jean legacy character was very much needed for her. Too bad the execution was so poorly handled.

With all that said, I have warmed up to her connections to Scott and Jean, although I dont think or need them to be close. Im more interested in exploring Rachel's connection to the younger generation of Summers/Greys aka Cable, X-man and Hope, but outside of Cable, there's been little to no interest there by the writers.

Currently with so many books, it would be great for her fans if she found a regular home but Im indifferent to that. There used to be a time where Id have hated for her to be in a book that I read, but now I dont mind.

[Scott402]

My earliest exposure to her was primarily Claremont and I hated how he wrote her. The whining and crying about Jean and Scott was bad in the 80s and worse in the 00s. She simply wasnt appealing. She seemed to be created to be Phoenix bc Jean wasnt around. I didnt read Excalibur bc it was so removed from the X-books, making her and stories feel overall irrelevant in the greater scheme of things. I did like her appearance in Cable's series in the late 90s but that went nowhere and she wasnt developed much from that.

I think I stopped disliking her after she returned to the X-men after her space adventure. She had the PF removed from her and under different writers which didnt emphasize her parentage, she started to feel like her own person for once. It was refreshing. Hated everything about Gold but I didnt dislike Prestige on principle bc Rachel taking an active step to not simply be a Jean legacy character was very much needed for her. Too bad the execution was so poorly handled.

With all that said, I have warmed up to her connections to Scott and Jean, although I dont think or need them to be close. Im more interested in exploring Rachel's connection to the younger generation of Summers/Greys aka Cable, X-man and Hope, but outside of Cable, there's been little to no interest there by the writers.

Currently with so many books, it would be great for her fans if she found a regular home but Im indifferent to that. There used to be a time where Id have hated for her to be in a book that I read, but now I dont mind.

I think considering what her character was coming from and her need for a relationship with her family the whining was justified when she was introduced into the books. I was always a fan as soon as it became clear she was Scott's and Jean's daughter it solidified for me. Her run in Excalibur still to this day is the best depiction of her in my eyes but to me that was her late teenage years and now we should be in her early to mid twenties. She should be recognized as one of the more established characters in the books having been around and experienced more then her fair share.

I reiterate that I think if she is going to be a background character in the X books then she should be elsewhere maybe in space as has been suggested but I really think there is a good spot available for her with the first family of the marvel universe. With the Fantastic Four she would be very good and she could serve as a bridge between mutants and the greater superhero community. An Uncanny Avengers run again would also serve her well. I always think back to AvX when she was fighting Cap and he says something along the lines of he thought she would be great and she responds with I already am. I thought that was a great example of her confidence and his belief in her power and character.