Rachel Summers/Grey Appreciation 2019

[WallStreeter]

I think it has more to do with Rachel opening herself to the Phoenix more than Jean ever did. Her symbiotic relationship was stronger.

Jean didn’t go crazy the second time around. Really Dark Phoenix just burned away what doesn’t work. So she wasn’t crazy, the Phoenix just took complete control of her and she fulfilled a cosmic mission.

[RachelGrey]

It makes Rachel weird. No father. Her mother got herself pregnant. There’s absolutely no reason to go for the most ridiculous and convoluted theories. It’s established Cyclops his her father, biologically speaking.

I agree, 811 Jean Grey and Scott Summers are Rachel's parents. Mother died when she was 6, Father died when she was 10.

Technically 616 Jean and Scott are not her parents, it's just that Rachel wants them to be because she has the same longing every kid has to have their parents back after they have died. 616 Scott has been a bit more willing to "be" Rachel's father, 616 Alex also seems willing to be Rachel's uncle. 616 Jean has always been a bit reluctant about being Rachel's mother. I think Jean was in a bad space when she came back from her Phoenix cocoon and everyone telling her about all these events and experiences with fake Phoenix Jean. Rachel was one more stress that she wasn't ready to deal with, first Scott was pretty much ready to get married to Phoenix Jean, then he married Madelyne after Phoenix Jean died, then left Madelyne for true Jean. Then Rachel comes along and says that Jean is her mom, which puts pressure on Jean that in order to make this daughter real she has to marry Scott and have a baby girl. I felt bad for Rachel but I can understand why Jean was having trouble with the whole mother thing when she first found out.

Scott does win in one respect he doesn't ever tell Rachel that he's not her father, he just accepts that Rachel is going to always see him as her dad and he only has one choice, accept it or not, and he chooses to accept it. Scott did do one thing during the AvX, he kept asking Rachel to track people for him even though she told him it was upsetting her and making her feel like a hound. Of course he was also hosting the Phoenix so maybe it made him a bit colder and less compassionate to her than he normally would have been.

Current Jean wavers on whether she is willing to be Rachel's mom, and this could be inconsistent writing because I thought Jean resolved this with Rachel way back in Excalibur when she visited them on Muir Island for the 2nd time. Also, when Jean died in New York by Xorn, Jean left a message for Rachel in the holoempathic crystal. After Jean's return in the X-Men Red annual it seemed like they understood each other, but then when Mesmero messed with Rachel and made her think she was a hound again, in the hospital Jean said to Rachel that she is not her mother when Rachel called her Mom. Of course that was X-Men Gold which had inconsistent writing at the best of times. I think in X-Men Red Jean was pretty consistent on referring to Rachel as her daughter.

Sometimes the writing on the comics is so awful and inconsistent. In the Red annual and in the issues involving Cassandra Nova controlling Rachel, Jean was all in on being Rachel's mom, and she was ready to trade her life for Rachel if necessary. Then along comes Extermination and Jean barely talks to Rachel, doesn't acknowledge Rachel's grief over her brother Cable, and barely even cares that Rachel was taken by Ahab at the end. Just bad writing.

So Jean is a good mom if a good writer is writing Jean, and a bad mom if a horrible writer is writing Jean.

[Omega Alpha]

It makes Rachel weird. No father. Her mother got herself pregnant. There’s absolutely no reason to go for the most ridiculous and convoluted theories. It’s established Cyclops his her father, biologically speaking.

It adds even more convolution to an already convoluted background (and franchise), not to mention the religious/political implications of this would create controversy for no reason.

[CRaymond]

It adds even more convolution to an already convoluted background (and franchise), not to mention the religious/political implications of this would create controversy for no reason.

Well obviously the reasoning is self-serving. A lot of fans want to see their faves granted godlike power, as though that solves problems and creates peace. Making Rachel divine offspring makes the connection to the Phoenix entity stronger than Jean’s, and the more likely inheritor than a mere “host”.

These folks have a pale understanding of the Phoenix, and I can’t blame them. My own understanding is almost entirely Morrisonian, and Rachel’s Phoenix history is Davis’ best attempt at no-prizing. Things like Phoenix Echoes is just the work of a poor imagination.

The volatile, traumatized daughter of Xavier’s favorite students is a horror for the X-Men, and potentially their greatest success.

[WallStreeter]

Yeah, we won't know for sure till next issue. Right now with X-Force 9 it could either be she tapped into some part of the Phoenix still inside her when she woke up, or when she merged with the Mother Askani consciousness she went complete Omega Telepath GodMode. Her eyes are glowing and her hair looks like it might be on fire in the last panel.

The Mother Askani always had some Phoenix power. Truthfully Rachel herself always was shown to have some. At times when she fought baby Xavier we saw a fiery aura.

She’s speaking in the Phoenix voice too.

[RachelGrey]

The Mother Askani always had some Phoenix power. Truthfully Rachel herself always was shown to have some. At times when she fought baby Xavier we saw a fiery aura.

She’s speaking in the Phoenix voice too.

It's not so much that Phoenix gave birth to her, it's more that she adjusted Rachel after the first time Rachel died. That is what I believe anyway. Phoenix rebuilt Rachel from her ashes after she died fighting Necrom and infused Rachel with a portion of her power. As Askani when she first started the Clan Askani resistance Rachel died several times in her war with the Acolytes and kept resurrecting from her own ashes. At the time she believed she got rid of the last of the Phoenix force when she forced all of her power into the Acolyte Diamandra to defeat her. Of course when Mother Askani died of old age her consciousness remained connected to all of her followers a little bit like a Goddess. The young Rachel who returned to the present day always shows signs of exceptional power when she was pressed hard enough. Often when she draws on that high level of power it would take a form very similar to the Phoenix effect but different, Rachel's own version of it. Now that Rachel and Mother Askani have joined together I am not sure what that means, is she fully restored to the state she was in when the Phoenix first reconstituted her with part of it's power, then technically she is in effect a "baby Phoenix" or the Starchild.

In the end this doesn't take away from the fact that Jean and Scott are her genetic and biological parents. The 616 Jean and Scott are physically and genetically the same as 811 Jean and Scott, and if you ran a paternity and maternity test on Rachel, 616 Jean and Scott would come up as her parents.

[JudicatorPrime]

I think it has more to do with Rachel opening herself to the Phoenix more than Jean ever did. Her symbiotic relationship was stronger.

Jean saw what the PF did as a simulacrum of herself. Can't really blame her for being hesitant...although becoming a White Phoenix of the Crown says something. Not every PF host achieved that degree of mastery and "oneness" with the PF. Not even Rachel. I'd like to think that Rachel has been quite comfortable with wielding tremendous amounts of power. Between her own mutant ability and Franklin Richards', working to avoid the whole "absolute power corrupts absolutely" nonsense must have been their daily calisthenics.

[PsychoEFrost]

Jean saw what the PF did as a simulacrum of herself. Can't really blame her for being hesitant...although becoming a White Phoenix of the Crown says something. Not every PF host achieved that degree of mastery and "oneness" with the PF. Not even Rachel. I'd like to think that Rachel has been quite comfortable with wielding tremendous amounts of power. Between her own mutant ability and Franklin Richards', working to avoid the whole "absolute power corrupts absolutely" nonsense must have been their daily calisthenics.

Rachel opened herself up more, but Jean had a stronger natural bond from the depth of her powers. That depth, the ability of psychics to see beyond the realms of life and death, is what draws the Phoenix to psionic persons.

[RachelGrey]

Rachel opened herself up more, but Jean had a stronger natural bond from the depth of her powers. That depth, the ability of psychics to see beyond the realms of life and death, is what draws the Phoenix to psionic persons.

That's because the psionic mutants are just that awesome (Jean, Rachel, Emma, Betsy, Celeste, Irma, Phoebe, all just rock).

[PsychoEFrost]

That's because the psionic mutants are just that awesome (Jean, Rachel, Emma, Betsy, Celeste, Irma, Phoebe, all just rock).

Even the first Phoenix host (we are blatantly ignoring the pointlessly dumb Avengers B.C. thing), Feron was a high-level Empath, even if he didn't have TP or TK.

[RachelGrey]

Even the first Phoenix host (we are blatantly ignoring the pointlessly dumb Avengers B.C. thing), Feron was a high-level Empath, even if he didn't have TP or TK.

Well you never know, maybe the Avengers BC girl was a psionic mutant too. You just never know.

[PsychoEFrost]

Well you never know, maybe the Avengers BC girl was a psionic mutant too. You just never know.

It would contradict 25 years of written text that has En Sabah Nur as the first mutant in Ancient Egypt.

[RachelGrey]

It would contradict 25 years of written text that has En Sabah Nur as the first mutant in Ancient Egypt.

Haha, I can't argue with continuity logic like that. Dang it, I was going to say there were no humans a million years ago, but Homo erectus was active at that time.

[RachelGrey]

The Origins of Jean Grey and Cyclops' Daughter, Rachel Summers
https://www.marvel.com/articles/comi...rachel-summers

[U.N. Owen]

Well you never know, maybe the Avengers BC girl was a psionic mutant too. You just never know.

Odin calls her a mutant while charging into battle.