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  1. #76
    Ultimate Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kon93 View Post
    a teen team could be a team created by the older Titans to help train and bring a feeling of community to the next generation of heroes.
    Valid point there, that is basically how the 2003 team came about. Cyborg and Starfire brought in some younger kids.

    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    With the YJ comic and the Wonder line, and the Titans TV show even, i think its maybe time DC try to explore having just one Titans team.
    Marvel has Runaways and Champions and there's word that Young Avengers will be revived soon too. If there's room for them all, then there's room for Titans, Teen Titans and Young Justice. How is it any different to having multiple Justice League and Avengers books?

  2. #77
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    Another problem with limiting the Titans roster is it doesn't leave them with that strong of a character pool to work with, and when a team is made up with the likes of character's like Gnarrk it immediately looks like a team for amateur d-listers.
    The Titans have a really strong roster of characters to call upon, they also have a lot of smaller characters that can be turned into something better. That's a big aspect that the Titans have over other teams.
    "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does? - Gaff Blade Runner

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  3. #78
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by byrd156 View Post
    The Titans have a really strong roster of characters to call upon, they also have a lot of smaller characters that can be turned into something better. That's a big aspect that the Titans have over other teams.
    It's a lot like the X-Men when you think about it.

  4. #79
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    I like to reiterate that the main problem here is how DC view them and less the characters themselves. Good writers can make good characters and great writers can even bring out the best of them, but before that you need a pitch that can convince DC to spend time on what they view as Justice League Copy.

    As for audience attraction, familiar names like Dick, Starfire, Cyborg, Beast Boy, and Raven always help, but they also need variation in the team so people don't get bored. Either by rotating roster, new recruits or trainees. In the old thread I suggested keeping the familiar names as ringleaders with expanded roster for variation, but I still need a premise, setting and enemies I like.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    With the YJ comic and the Wonder line, and the Titans TV show even, i think its maybe time DC try to explore having just one Titans team.
    dc should have been done that by now.
    Imagine being proud to have negative traits. I canít relate.

    DC: Justice League, The Flash, Justice League Dark, Superman, Action Comics, Green Arrow, Justice League Odyssey, The Terrifics, Teen Titans, Titans, Brimstone, Female Furies, Damage, Heroes In Crisis

    Marvel: The Punisher, Cosmic Ghost Rider, Venom, X-23, Cloak and Dagger, Jessica Jones, Sentry

    Indies: Unnatural, Jeepers Creepers, Project Superpowers, Black Hammer, Ninja-K

  6. #81
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    With the YJ comic and the Wonder line, and the Titans TV show even, i think its maybe time DC try to explore having just one Titans team.
    ...Oh i thought YJ and the Wonder line counts... oh you mean directly related to the Titans? Teams that built by Titans?

  7. #82
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    It's a lot like the X-Men when you think about it.
    I was gonna say the same thing but didn't want to turn the discussion into that rabbit hole.
    "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does? - Gaff Blade Runner

    "In a short time, this will be a long time ago." - Werner Slow West

    "One of the biggest problems in the industry is apathy right now." - Dan Didio Co-Publisher of I Wonder Why That Is Comics

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    Character like Gnarrk don't draw, in anyway, and there's a reason for that. The team is at a disadvantage when its cast is limited to the same handful of characters and forgotten character that the audiences generally doesn't care about.
    WHOSE fault is that?

    Malcolm Duncan was DC's first black hero. His WIFE was the first black female heroine at DC. And what has been done with them in comics? Young Justice & 2003 Teen Titans show did more justice to those two than the last 49 years they have been at DC. Whose to blame for them not being interesting in comics?

    What was the New Warriors? One new guy and 2 failed solo stars, a rejected X-Men, Namor's cousin and Marvel Boy.
    Or Generation X, New X-Men Academy & Avengers Academy before they all got trashed.
    Lets not forget the 1987 Justice League. Who made use of Guy, Booster, Ice, Fire & Ted Kord when no one else could.
    Or the 1996 Titans who got screwed over and one got used to bash the Titans in Sideways and killed in Heroes in Crisis looking like a certain kid from Florida.

    The bottom line is a writer can make anyone interesting but FANS have to be willing to read the books. Instead of throwing fits that blank is on the team. Get some fringe folks on that team so stories that won't get derailed by Batman, Superman, WW Flash, Deathstroke or other books.

    You don't need the Fab 5 is every issue. You are allowed to give them a rest everyone in awhile. Because sales are not going to get hurt because the title say TEEN TITANS or TITANS-it's going get ordered no matter what.
    And the same store owners crying about Iceman books not selling will ignore the larger pile of unsold Titans books. So why not go wild and see what happens.

  9. #84
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Ok, let see how I’m gonna do this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kon93 View Post
    Or not.

    The JL has a core that is almost always consistent,the Titans are not at a disadvantage for having the same characters on the team,they are the draw to the book,the reason ppl live the team,and why ppl fight for them all the time.
    Dick
    Donna
    Wally
    Roy
    Garth
    Kory
    Raven
    Gar
    Vice

    There are the established iconic Titans,now make it work DC.

    And a teen team could be a team created by the older Titans to help train and bring a feeling of community to the next generation of heroes.
    The JL has a core that legitimately draws, and even still they expand beyond that core all the time. Constantly adding and removing new members from all over. The Titans being restricted to just the same handful of characters is a limitation that doesn’t help them expand to new audiences.

    And with YJ, and this new teen line that the Teen Titans is not part of, its going to be vary hard for the Teen Titans to exists next to that. Especially when DC is more then likely not going to put the same about of support into both. Very soon TT is not gonna be in a good position, and the Titans is well just a joke. So maybe instead of having 2 teams they aren’t going to know what to do with, come up with something that tries to combine the strengths of both and just do one Titans team. It’s working for the show.

    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Marvel has Runaways and Champions and there's word that Young Avengers will be revived soon too. If there's room for them all, then there's room for Titans, Teen Titans and Young Justice. How is it any different to having multiple Justice League and Avengers books?
    Runaways and Champions are very different, and maybe ideally there could be room for both but that has not been the track record with DC. You really see them putting the same kind of support into both, cause i don’t. Teen Titans is going to get buired under the new, and better supported, teen line.

    Quote Originally Posted by byrd156 View Post
    The Titans have a really strong roster of characters to call upon, they also have a lot of smaller characters that can be turned into something better. That's a big aspect that the Titans have over other teams.
    I think this is being a bit idealistic. You have the Fab 5 and then the NTTs. And most of those characters are hardly in great or strong shape. And its easy to say so and so can be turned into something, but that’s just hypothetical. The strongest character the Titans did have, it did nothing but crap on or ignore. But thats ok cause he has a solo, and all the others were in much more need of development (I say this sarcastically).
    Last edited by Godlike13; 01-06-2019 at 10:15 PM.

  10. #85
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    I think this is being a bit idealistic. You have the Fab 5 and then the NTTs. And most of those characters are hardly in great or strong shape. And its easy to say so and so can be turned into something, but that’s just hypothetical. The strongest character the Titans did have, it did nothing but crap on or ignore. But thats ok cause he has a solo, and all the others were in much more need of development (I say this sarcastically)
    How is it being idealistic? Plus you made my point, there's the Fab Five and NTT. Just like there's the Satellite Era and Morrison's roster for the JL. You say there is no strong character pool but there is one.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...Titans_members
    Yeah it is easy for hypotheticals, just like it's easy to simply dismiss characters when they have never really been given a fair shake. Who is this strongest character that did nothing but crap on and ignore, I don't understand what you're saying here?

    These characters are draws, some more than others but they are the go to characters when Titans are used in comics and other media.

    Robin/Nightwing
    Wonder Girl/Troia
    Aqualad/Tempest
    Kid Flash/Flash
    Speedy/Arsenal
    Cybrog
    Raven
    Beast Boy
    Starfire
    Jericho

    That's 10 characters just from the popular stuff. When you look at characters as just powersets, costumes, or number of fans you can pull in, then you lose sight of what is important. That these are characters used to tell stories that are fun and make people feel things. Simply dismissing them is why DC is in the sorry state it finds itself in. All we can do as fans is play hypotheticals, hope for better and vote with our wallets. I bought the hell out of Titans Hunt because I want to see the Fab Five, Gnarrk and other classic Titans. But instead I get even more dead Titans and even the more popular ones aren't safe. I'm tired of being told that characters I love are worthless because........ why? They never had a hundred issue solo series, most characters never have at DC. What about Martian Manhunter? Firestorm? Vixen? Fire & Ice? Booster & Beetle? Mister Miracle? Big Barda? Orion? Plastic man? Atom? Atom Smasher? Damage? Alan Scott? The rest of the JSA? All these characters are in pretty terrible shape and never had huge solo success, they never get to have their time unless they are used in a team book or in a team-up. The only difference between them and the rest of the Titans is that writers continue to use them. Most casual comic fans probably have no idea who the hell Mister Miracle is but because of his recent mini he probably had one of the best books (or at least popular/talked about) in recent years.
    "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does? - Gaff Blade Runner

    "In a short time, this will be a long time ago." - Werner Slow West

    "One of the biggest problems in the industry is apathy right now." - Dan Didio Co-Publisher of I Wonder Why That Is Comics

  11. #86
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    Cause your looking at what they ideally could be, and not at what they currently actually are. It easy to say how they have a bunch of smaller character that could be great, but that doesn't mean they have a bunch of character that are great. Most of the Titans, even the most popular Titans are in terrible shape. Especially the Fab Five. I like most of these characters too, but let not pretend that these are poplar character up there with the JL or the X-Men, cause they are not. The Titan in the best shape is probably Nightwing, and because of the disparity between him and his team members he actually gets punished in Titans. He gets ignored and portrayed by the numbers, which gets excused because he has a solo and no one else does, except of course when they need to prop up someone else on the team. Ive never seen a character get his ass kicked by his own teammates as much as Nightwing does. The Titans are in bad shape, and not being able to go outside of the same group of struggling characters, beyond forgotten Teen Titans, is a limitation that handicaps the team.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 01-07-2019 at 12:15 AM.

  12. #87
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Speaking of popular members of Sidekick or Former Sidekick Teams here they are from the casual point of view

    Robin - Dick or Damian but Tim is known too
    Kid Flash - Wally - Bart is known as Impulse
    Starfire
    Cyborg
    Beast Boy
    Raven

    Superboy - Kon
    Aqualad - Kaldur
    Artemis Crock
    M'Gann
    Roy Harper
    Blue Beetle - Jaime
    Batgirl/Oracle - Barbara

    Nightwing

    Maybe Lagoon Boy, Bumblebee, Garth and Donna Troy

    Start from there and divide them to teams, for example

    Titans
    Nightwing
    Wally
    Roy
    Donna
    Starfire
    Cyborg
    Beast Boy
    Raven

    Young Justice
    Tim Drake
    Kon El
    Impulse

    Teen Titans
    Damian

    Those are the team popular, the audience bait, now add the extras or switch around as you like

  13. #88
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    Cause your looking at what they ideally could be, and not at what they currently actually are. It easy to say how they have a bunch of smaller character that could be great, but that doesn't mean they have a bunch of character that are great. Most of the Titans, even the most popular Titans are in terrible shape. Especially the Fab Five. I like most of these characters too, but let not pretend that these are poplar character up there with the JL or the X-Men, cause they are not. The Titan in the best shape is probably Nightwing, and because of the disparity between him and his team members he actually gets punished in Titans. He gets ignored and portrayed by the numbers, which gets excused because he has a solo and no one else does, except of course when they need to prop up someone else on the team. Ive never seen a character get his ass kicked by his own teammates as much as Nightwing does. The Titans are in bad shape, and not being able to go outside of the same group of struggling characters, beyond forgotten Teen Titans, is a limitation that handicaps the team.
    I have been looking at them the way they are. I look at how they are every time I open up a TT or Titans book. The way they are is absolutely nothing. The Titans are nothing, Nightwing is nothing, Wally is nothing, the JSA, and on and on and on and on and on. I talk about trying to make things better because I believe in making an effort to fix things rather than blaming or making excuses.

    I'm tired of looking at the way things are because I hate what I see. I never said these characters were JL level famous and you know I wasn't. There are different levels of iconography to these characters. These characters are generally known and associated with the team, that is my point. I'm not saying if you show these the Titans vs the JL that everyone in the world would pick the Titans as the more popular thing.

    Acting like these characters are somehow handicaps doesn't make sense. At all. People who aren't buying Titans right now isn't because Gnarrk was once a member. "Oh no this is the book that Duela and Mal Duncan were in, lets go buy something else." No one is thinking about these characters when they grab a Titans book. So how can it be a handicap?

    I don't know why I have to keep saying it but since it never gets through I will have to keep saying it. THE WRITERS AND MANAGEMENT ARE AT FAULT FOR THE DCU. NO MATTER WHAT YOUR OPINION (GOOD OR BAD) EVERYTHING THAT IS HAPPENING, HAS HAPPENED, AND WILL HAPPEN IS BECAUSE OF REAL PEOPLE AND NOT THE CHARACTERS. ACTING LIKE THE CHARACTERS ARE THE PROBLEM MAKES NO SENSE.
    Last edited by byrd156; 01-07-2019 at 01:19 PM.
    "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does? - Gaff Blade Runner

    "In a short time, this will be a long time ago." - Werner Slow West

    "One of the biggest problems in the industry is apathy right now." - Dan Didio Co-Publisher of I Wonder Why That Is Comics

  14. #89
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
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    Someone compared the Titans to the X-Men a few posts ago, and I think that's an entirely fair assessment. The Titans and the X-Men were each others' biggest competition back in the 80s and with good reason. They ended up telling the same kinds of stories (see: good, iconic ones) and they have a fair number of most of the iconic characters at DC comics within their roster; all things considered there are as many iconic characters from within the Titans that people want to see as there are in the JL, the large majority of them at least introduced within the first "generation" of Titans. Which also largely presents a problem.

    You can only have so many books before you begin to cannibalize the line. With three (or two, depending on how you see it) books you are less likely to do that but more likely not to include the characters that people want to see, for the most part, or not be allowed to - which seems to be the biggest problem with the crop of titles that we have at present. We have iconic characters like Donna Troy, Beast Boy, Raven, Robin (x2), Superboy, Impulse, Wonder Girl, and kind of Kyle Raynor's Green Lantern - and then new or lesser known heroes, which is fine, but it comes at the expense of other heroes that people want to see stories told with.

    The Titans could at least have one more book to themselves as long as the concept stayed a little bit different - something like Titans East and Titans West even if not called that for the fact that the current team being featured in Titans isn't particularly situated in one place. It doesn't even need to be called Titans. Give it a plot that squarely separates it from Titans, Teen Titans, and Young Justice and fill it with the characters that aren't around anywhere and that people want to see; particularly, Bumblebee, since she seems be one of the heroes DC wants to push most in outside media except she's nowhere within the comics themselves? And profit. Maybe this is where Nightwing goes when he's back to his senses too, so that Donna can have her own team.

    It's really that simple.

    All it takes is a fresh approach that doesn't cannibalize what else is going on in the line. There are plenty of characters to throw into these things and plenty of them are the characters that people want to see here. Oh, and editorial? Stop killing them off for the hell of it. People will only get madder.

    Oh and lastly: let's be honest, JL Odyssey is a Titans book. No one can convince me otherwise.

    "I'll always love you, Jean Grey." "I'll always love you too, Scott Summers." - Scott Summers and Jean Grey

  15. #90
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    I think the Teen Titans roster with Lorena, Kid Devil, Static, Bombshell and some others is what appeals to me because it doesn’t feel like a safe choice. I’m tired of things being safe all the time.
    Imagine being proud to have negative traits. I canít relate.

    DC: Justice League, The Flash, Justice League Dark, Superman, Action Comics, Green Arrow, Justice League Odyssey, The Terrifics, Teen Titans, Titans, Brimstone, Female Furies, Damage, Heroes In Crisis

    Marvel: The Punisher, Cosmic Ghost Rider, Venom, X-23, Cloak and Dagger, Jessica Jones, Sentry

    Indies: Unnatural, Jeepers Creepers, Project Superpowers, Black Hammer, Ninja-K

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