Titans/Teen Titans Appreciation 2019

[Sam]

I certainly understand that perspective. Just saying personally, I saw it as one of the best Teen Titans scenes ever. Gar's in a weird place, so it all made sense to me. He doesn't want to kill Slade and he can't arrest him, so he gets the closure he needs. Whenever Gar gets to be the emotional center of the book, I tend to love it.

[Tzigone]

I certainly understand that perspective. Just saying personally, I saw it as one of the best Teen Titans scenes ever. Gar's in a weird place, so it all made sense to me. He doesn't want to kill Slade and he can't arrest him, so he gets the closure he needs. Whenever Gar gets to be the emotional center of the book, I tend to love it.

I like Gar a lot. But he had options. Like continuing to pursue Slade (within the law) to catch him next time he tried to murder someone. That's not what he chose. He chose to let him off the hook.

I love Gar being the emotional center, if he's done well. He was not done well to me there.

I had the opposite reaction. It felt so fake and forced. I lost a lot of respect for Gar after that.

I probably would have, if everyone else didn't react to Slade basically the same way.

[Sam]

I like Gar a lot. But he had options. Like continuing to pursue Slade (within the law) to catch him next time he tried to murder someone. That's not what he chose. He chose to let him off the hook.

I love Gar being the emotional center, if he's done well. He was not done well to me there.

For Gar's sake, he needed to put this chapter behind him. Pursuing Slade would have only kept him steeped in anger and self-hatred. He had to let Slade and Tara go to move on.

[Tzigone]

For Gar's sake, he needed to put this chapter behind him. Pursuing Slade would have only kept him steeped in anger and self-hatred. He had to let Slade and Tara go to move on.

No. Heroes absolutely should not let murderers of innocents walk free. And, in doing so, it was certainly letting Slade off the hook.

That he would let a murderer go free and make no attempt/statement of catching him in future or preventing future murders by him just so he doesn't have to deal with his own bad feelings makes Gar look very bad.

The entire issue was pretty much "Tara was evil, Slade's not" and I have major issues with the second half of that statement.

[king81992]

I like Gar a lot. But he had options. Like continuing to pursue Slade (within the law) to catch him next time he tried to murder someone. That's not what he chose. He chose to let him off the hook.

I love Gar being the emotional center, if he's done well. He was not done well to me there.

I probably would have, if everyone else didn't react to Slade basically the same way.

To be fair, I lost respect for all of the Titans after that incident. It was sort of a foreshadowing to how DC handles Harley Quinn today. The character isn't 'grey or redeemed' because they changed and are trying to be better, they are 'grey and redeemed' because the writer says so. As for the other characters in the story, they get written as mouthpieces for the writer to say 'Harley/Deathstroke are good guys now' or the characters suddenly become okay with having them around.

[king81992]

No. Heroes absolutely should not let murderers of innocents walk free. And, in doing so, it was certainly letting Slade off the hook.

That he would let a murderer go free and make no attempt/statement of catching him in future or preventing future murders by him just so he doesn't have to deal with his own bad feelings makes Gar look very bad.

The entire issue was pretty much "Tara was evil, Slade's not" and I have major issues with the second half of that statement.

I can believe that Tara was evil, but for Wolfman to sit there and pretend that Slade wasn't evil left an awful taste in my mouth. A lot of writers and fans act like Slade is 'an honorable man with a code',yet no writer (even the ones who think that Slade is misunderstood) has shown any proof of this 'honor or code'. So what if he doesn't break a contract? So what if he 'loves' his family? That never stopped him from screwing them over to carry out a scheme or because he was pissed at them.

As for Tara, the only reason why I think that she should be retooled as an antihero is because of the incredible free pass that Slade got over the years. New 52 had the right idea with her character.

[Frontier]

To be fair, I lost respect for all of the Titans after that incident. It was sort of a foreshadowing to how DC handles Harley Quinn today. The character isn't 'grey or redeemed' because they changed and are trying to be better, they are 'grey and redeemed' because the writer says so. As for the other characters in the story, they get written as mouthpieces for the writer to say 'Harley/Deathstroke are good guys now' or the characters suddenly become okay with having them around.

Ironically Priest writes Slade's solo and is pretty upfront about how terrible a guy he is, and that he's not really a good guy.

[Sam]

No. Heroes absolutely should not let murderers of innocents walk free. And, in doing so, it was certainly letting Slade off the hook.

That he would let a murderer go free and make no attempt/statement of catching him in future or preventing future murders by him just so he doesn't have to deal with his own bad feelings makes Gar look very bad.

The entire issue was pretty much "Tara was evil, Slade's not" and I have major issues with the second half of that statement.

Gar’s also human. And anyone who’s undergone a traumatic experience are just going to make things harder on themselves if they obsessively stalk a villain who was key to that trauma.

[Tzigone]

As for Tara, the only reason why I think that she should be retooled as an antihero is because of the incredible free pass that Slade got over the years.

That's pretty much the only thing that make me retool her. I haven't read her New 52.

But I do agree with some others that have expressed how many popular female villains get turned into anti-heroes, and it is frustrating. On the other side, she wasn't a great villain (the way I think Ivy or Harley can be). I don't think she was an interesting/appealing character, in her original set up. She had raw power. Derision towards heroes. Insulted Kory and Gar a lot. She wasn't particularly sneaky or smooth or intelligent or skilled or funny or anything, really. But she did the job the character was built to do.

And anyone who’s undergone a traumatic experience are just going to make things harder on themselves if they obsessively stalk a villain who was key to that trauma.

Keeping surveillance on a known assassin is not "obsessively stalking" - nor, by the way, would have been handing it off to another team member or another team. There's a whole raft of options between "driving yourself crazy" and "letting a murderer walk free after taking his advice and treating him like a decent fellow."

But if he's letting murderers walk free because he can't handle his own emotions, then he doesn't belong in the hero business.

But, like I said, almost all the heroes treat Slade that way. It's the editorial/authorial intent that that be perceived as the right decision/treatment that I have an issue with. Gar, to me, is just a manifestation of that. Rather than a particular failing in Gar, it's a failing in that story and in subsequent ones and in the general treatment of Slade (and other villains not relevant to the thread).

[king81992]

Ironically Priest writes Slade's solo and is pretty upfront about how terrible a guy he is, and that he's not really a good guy.

Priest is probably the only writer who doesn't try to pretend that Slade has redeeming qualities.Although, I remember Johns taking heat from fans back in the day because they felt that he wrote Slade as 'dishonorable and too sadistic'.

[titanfan]

I can believe that Tara was evil, but for Wolfman to sit there and pretend that Slade wasn't evil left an awful taste in my mouth. A lot of writers and fans act like Slade is 'an honorable man with a code',yet no writer (even the ones who think that Slade is misunderstood) has shown any proof of this 'honor or code'. So what if he doesn't break a contract? So what if he 'loves' his family? That never stopped him from screwing them over to carry out a scheme or because he was pissed at them.

At least in Slade's first ongoing (by Wolfman), Slade was written pretty much as an anti-hero who tried to not kill innocents. (But obviously if there was collateral damage from his contract he would take it) But that was the height of Deathstroke's popularity as an anti-hero, so DC wanted $$$$$$.

Then, when Slade was less popular he reverted to sadistic villain, doing pretty unredeemable things such as nuking Bloodhaven, killing Phantom Lady and other innocents, etc.

I would say new-52 he's still pretty much a villain with sympathetic qualities. The book keeps you around because his supporting cast is likeable and you can root for them.

[Tzigone]

I have a question: I read NTT/Tales/Titans in back issues from start to about 1991. Gar was "Changeling" then. When and why did he go back to being "Beast Boy"? I know he was in the TT cartoon, but don't know if he was because he'd already switched back in comics or cartoon popularity made them change comics or what.

[Digifiend]

Not sure exactly when, but it was before the 2003 Teen Titans comic.

[Starter Set]

Changeling is a way cooler name as far i'm concerned.

[Tzigone]

Changeling is a way cooler name as far i'm concerned.

Beast Boy is bland (no worse than Batman or Superman), but easy to say and abbreviate. Changeling is more interesting, but less specific (being a real word) - this might matter in terms of tags on social media (for fans like me) or marketing. I still find it superior. No character should leave behind a code name with "boy" or "girl" in and then go back to it once they are older/grown.