Titans/Teen Titans Appreciation 2019

[Zudomon]

If they do bring in Terra, I really hope they go with her arc from her original appearance. It was iconic. She was created for people to fall in love with her character only for her to deceive the heroes in the story. I'll be disappointed if YG brings in Terra only for her to be simply another member of the team.

[Raijin]

She was portrayed as an evil Kitty Pryde and that's what she was. It's more of a testament to Wolfman and Perez that they played with so many people's emotions.

Everything after with her has been really bad. If you want Terra just bring back Atlee and let Tara Markov rest in peace where she was meant to stay.

That sounds super limiting. Everyone is entitled their opinions though. As a fan of both Atlee and Terra, i say they can coexist.

[Raijin]

The DC Universe needs to upload way more comics. I never read Wolfman's 90's run with Roy leading the team (i think?) and they only have four issues. Issues #60, 61, 116 & 117.

[Restingvoice]

And despite all that growth DC doesn't want to integrate the adult Titans into DCU to be looked at as other adult heroes. I think that is a massive issue and the core problem. DC uses the Titans branding to keep them in that "young hero" mold despite me believing they no longer fit there given their age and experience, and especially because you have multiple young generations behind them now. I believe if they left the Titans franchise to the actual young heroes it would force DC to have to integrate them with the other adults properly. It completes their growth. They can't use it as some obstacle holding them back. They become more equal in standing and if there is no place for them then they weren't strong enough characters to stand as adult heroes anyway.

Now if all the Titans were 20 we wouldn't have the problems we are. Them being treated like young heroes fits. It is the fact that they have aged past that point and I don't think the "clubhouse" theme works for adult heroes over a long period once these characters start getting into their 20s. We've seen that time and time again. The team struggles to find an identity and a purpose other than repeating things they did as teens. It feels regressive and forces these adult heroes from being unable to be seen as adults that command the respect that other adult heroes have. You have to have a reason and a mission statement for a team of adult heroes to work and operate together beyond them just doing it because that is what they did as teens. It is enough for young heroes who are learning and growing together but once you have grown up you need to have some other core reason to be on a team like that. You have added responsibility that comes with getting older.

Ah. You mean DC higher ups... professional working adults age 30s and up... look down on the clubhouse angle as immature and unprofessional, like college sororities... and since Titans unique point is their friendship, this college gathering and Titans go hand in hand, so they will forever underestimate and uninterested in them.

Which is fine if they don't have Nightwing or Wally who've proven themselves to be beyond college sororities. That's why you want them out and the Fab Five can't be there anymore. As long as they're there, they will forever be viewed as college students hanging out.

The thing is they are friends so even if the Fab Five or NTT crew created a differently named team, maybe called the Fab Five, they're still going to be viewed the same. Separating them into different adult groups will work better. They can hang out in the off time or in their solo series.

The question now would the fans like it. Has there ever been an iteration of Titans that's completely without any of the Fab Five or the NTT crew?

[Raijin]

Ah. You mean DC higher ups... professional working adults age 30s and up... look down on the clubhouse angle as immature and unprofessional, like college sororities... and since Titans unique point is their friendship, this college gathering and Titans go hand in hand, so they will forever underestimate and uninterested in them.

Which is fine if they don't have Nightwing or Wally who've proven themselves to be beyond college sororities. That's why you want them out and the Fab Five can't be there anymore. As long as they're there, they will forever be viewed as college students hanging out.

The thing is they are friends so even if the Fab Five or NTT crew created a differently named team, maybe called the Fab Five, they're still going to be viewed the same. Separating them into different adult groups will work better. They can hang out in the off time or in their solo series.

The question now would the fans like it. Has there ever been an iteration of Titans that's completely without any of the Fab Five or the NTT crew?

Jurgens Titans

[Restingvoice]

Jurgens Titans

When was that? Jurgens, I'm guessing 90s. How did it go? Did people like it? Did it sell well? Where were the skill level of the Fan Five and NTT crew at the time? What were they doing when they're not in Titans? I'm asking because I want to compare the conditions back then and right now.

[byrd156]

When was that? Jurgens, I'm guessing 90s. How did it go? Did people like it? Did it sell well? Where were the skill level of the Fan Five and NTT crew at the time? What were they doing when they're not in Titans? I'm asking because I want to compare the conditions back then and right now.

I don't know the reaction at the time but I loved it and the character that carried over into Grayson's run. They built off of each other and that is something that I love so much. Comics need to do this more.

[byrd156]

That sounds super limiting. Everyone is entitled their opinions though. As a fan of both Atlee and Terra, i say they can coexist.

That's not limiting, that's called planned storytelling. People want her back because they got tricked into caring for her and they want her back. With Atlee you still have the rock powers and someone who has to get past the shadow of the last person named Terra. That's a whole lot more unique then her somehow surviving and becoming a good guy because fans want her.

An example of Limiting would be pointlessly killing off Firestorm and Jack Drake in Identity Crisis for shock deaths. Tim had a very unique position while being Robin, he had a living parent. There were still plenty of stories to tell about Tim and Jack's relationship instead of just killing them. I am very against character death unless the creator of that specific character has it in their plan or their is something larger to that death. Terra was meant to break the team's heart and the reader's heart then die. It's a lesson to both about futility and betrayal. Still holding on after the fact is crazy to me. It ruins the Judas Contract after the fact by bringing her back.

[Raijin]

When was that? Jurgens, I'm guessing 90s. How did it go? Did people like it? Did it sell well? Where were the skill level of the Fan Five and NTT crew at the time? What were they doing when they're not in Titans? I'm asking because I want to compare the conditions back then and right now.

They were pretty much all newbies being led by a de-aged Ray Palmer. So you them kinda grow throughout the run. We haven't seen that since NTT. Before i downplayed the Jurgens series and certain people got on my case about it. After reading it, I thought it was a blast. You gotta read it. It was refreshing to me.

[Harpsikord]

That's not limiting, that's called planned storytelling. People want her back because they got tricked into caring for her and they want her back. With Atlee you still have the rock powers and someone who has to get past the shadow of the last person named Terra. That's a whole lot more unique then her somehow surviving and becoming a good guy because fans want her.

There is no such thing as a planned, definitive ending in comic books and to assume or act like there is then you're honestly only fooling yourself. Terra's original story was that she was going to fool the original Titans (and the fans) and that she'd die at the end, but that was thirty years ago, and it never stuck. When Wolfman brought in Terra 2 (who may or may not have been Tara Markov, we'll never know his original intentions. I've realized writers lie about these old stories all the time - look at what Claremont says about Phoenix now), he's the one that defined her as a repentant hero, and the idea that Terra is repentant is the one that stuck. And that's the one that the fans want see, so frankly, it's the one that the writers should give us. Atlee is different enough that they can coexist, but people want Tara Markov. The anti-hero. And if they're going to use her they need to write new stories for her anyway.

Making her an anti-hero is the only way to truly viable.

Terra was meant to break the team's heart and the reader's heart then die. It's a lesson to both about futility and betrayal. Still holding on after the fact is crazy to me. It ruins the Judas Contract after the fact by bringing her back.

The only Titan that was created and then intended to die permanently is Kole.

[byrd156]

There is no such thing as a planned, definitive ending in comic books and to assume or act like there is then you're honestly only fooling yourself. Terra's original story was that she was going to fool the original Titans (and the fans) and that she'd die at the end, but that was thirty years ago, and it never stuck. When Wolfman brought in Terra 2 (who may or may not have been Tara Markov, we'll never know his original intentions. I've realized writers lie about these old stories all the time - look at what Claremont says about Phoenix now), he's the one that defined her as a repentant hero, and the idea that Terra is repentant is the one that stuck. And that's the one that the fans want see, so frankly, it's the one that the writers should give us. Atlee is different enough that they can coexist, but people want Tara Markov. The anti-hero. And if they're going to use her they need to write new stories for her anyway.

Making her an anti-hero is the only way to truly viable.



The only Titan that was created and then intended to die permanently is Kole.

Terra was planned the same way Kole was.

And no s*** there is no planned ending to comics. That's why we keep having stupid reboots every time the universe starts moving forward. The reason Wolfman brought back Terra II with the Team Titans was because of those fans who felt entitled to that character. But hey they can keep bringing her back and telling lackluster stories if they want.

As for her being repentant, she was Stratan which was like an alien or sub-Earth creature from the future with a bad memory. She was basically just the drawing of the character going around saying sorry for things she may or may not have even done.

[Raijin]

There is no such thing as a planned, definitive ending in comic books and to assume or act like there is then you're honestly only fooling yourself. Terra's original story was that she was going to fool the original Titans (and the fans) and that she'd die at the end, but that was thirty years ago, and it never stuck. When Wolfman brought in Terra 2 (who may or may not have been Tara Markov, we'll never know his original intentions. I've realized writers lie about these old stories all the time - look at what Claremont says about Phoenix now), he's the one that defined her as a repentant hero, and the idea that Terra is repentant is the one that stuck. And that's the one that the fans want see, so frankly, it's the one that the writers should give us. Atlee is different enough that they can coexist, but people want Tara Markov. The anti-hero. And if they're going to use her they need to write new stories for her anyway.

Making her an anti-hero is the only way to truly viable.



The only Titan that was created and then intended to die permanently is Kole.

Pretty much this. There’s nothing left to be said after that. I see a lot of potential in Terra, to be very honest. I’d like to see someone write her journey from villain, to someone who is in the gray area to a full blown character. I’m only speaking for me and on the types of stories I’d love to see. People don’t have to share the same old opinions all the time.

[byrd156]

Pretty much this. There’s nothing left to be said after that. I see a lot of potential in Terra, to be very honest. I’d like to see someone write her journey from villain, to someone who is in the gray area to a full blown character. I’m only speaking for me and on the types of stories I’d love to see. People don’t have to share the same old opinions all the time.

If we all shared the same opinions then there wouldn't be much discussion.

[failo.legendkiller]

When was that? Jurgens, I'm guessing 90s. How did it go? Did people like it? Did it sell well? Where were the skill level of the Fan Five and NTT crew at the time? What were they doing when they're not in Titans? I'm asking because I want to compare the conditions back then and right now.

I loved that team! Risk, Argent, Prysm & Joto (after renamed HotSpot) leaded by a de-aged Ray Palmer Atom.
It dind't sell very well and after the first arc they added some featuring of the fab 5 or Tim Drake, Supergirl and others.

Unfortunately, later, only Argent was correctly treated and featured into the Grayson Titans roster. She's missing since N52.
The others were used as slaughter meat. Geoff Jones got both of Risk's arms in his crises from Superboy Prime, later he goes rogue. He too is missing since N52.
HotSpot was one of the first victims at the Sanctuary of Tom King.
I lost track of Prysm, too bad.
The book lasted 24 issues, I am a fan of this run and I hope one day some writer may have the desire to give them a second chance.

[failo.legendkiller]

They were pretty much all newbies being led by a de-aged Ray Palmer. So you them kinda grow throughout the run. We haven't seen that since NTT. Before i downplayed the Jurgens series and certain people got on my case about it. After reading it, I thought it was a blast. You gotta read it. It was refreshing to me.

This is one of the most beautiful posts I've ever read!
I'm happy when people are able to admit they were wrong. It makes you honor!
Above all, I am happy to have helped to make this book known to someone who did not know it. Well done Anti-Geek!