Namor the Sub-Mariner Appreciation 2019

[KOSLOX]

I wonder if Marvel might bring in Namor as part of a revamped Illuminati.

If they try to adapt Secret Wars or Time Runs Out, I could see the Illuminati being:

Black Panther, Dr. Strange, Ikaris, Namor, Reed Richards, and Emma Frost.

[Reviresco]

I wonder if Marvel might bring in Namor as part of a revamped Illuminati.

If they try to adapt Secret Wars or Time Runs Out, I could see the Illuminati being:

Black Panther, Dr. Strange, Ikaris, Namor, Reed Richards, and Emma Frost.

That's an interesting thought. I certainly wouldn't be surprised to see Feige replace the Inhumans with the Eternals.

[Rumble]

The real issue with BP and Namor being a part of it is that it makes zero sense for the Atlanteans and Wakandians to fight, they both have isolated themselves because of the world, they both are technologically advanced, both have great culture and both of their leaders are noble. They should be great allies and the only reason why Namor attacked Wakanda was because he was possessed with the phoenix.

I really would rather Namor be able to stand on his own than continue to be defined by Black Panther and as Black Panther's enemy as he has been since AVX and this extends beyond the comics, mainstream fans know Namor more for the flooding of Wakanda and having the hots for Susan Storm than anything else, if they don't know that then they just call him a rip off Aquaman. I see this alot in the namor search in twitter and hardly anything else. So I'm not against the director, I think he did an amazing job and I loved BP, it was a great movie. I'm only against Namor being anywhere near BP because I know it will only fuel more Marvel creators to continue this 'feud' between them for another decade because creators become inspired by the movie or Marvel wants more comics to match up with the movie. I would rather each character have their own villains than to be constantly pitted against one another.

Edit: Not to mention how the current Marvel cartoons continue to have Atlanteans with Attuma taking Namor's place as an adversary for T'challa as if the character was so replaceable they just could substitute Attuma for Namor and continue the Atlantean/Wakanda thing.

Agreed 100%

The whole Namor vs BP thing was tiring in the comics and i have no interest in seeing that in the movies. They're better off having mutual respect for each other and coming together against a common threat.

Moreso, Namor and Atlantis is a spectacle best revealed in an Avengers movie or a Fantastic Four film (or just his own film) where the scenery (and cgi budget) can focus on giving audiences the best possible Atlantis. As big budgeted as BP was, the cgi still needed a few extra 5 dollar bills to sharpen and that was with only one futuristic paradise being accounted for.

If Namor appears in DS 2, I wonder if it would be like BP in Civil War where you don't see their homeland (again, save that cgi budget) but it's just a character piece to get audiences warmed up to the new guy and then tease the reveal of Atlantis to be shown in a future event film or his own solo

[ImperiusWrecked]

Namor art by Ke Sneller that I really love a lot and wanted to share here. Link If only we could get a series filled with art like this, I would be so happy.

[Doombot]

How would you guys update Namor's Rogues Gallery? Who would you most like to see come back and how?

[ImperiusWrecked]

How would you guys update Namor's Rogues Gallery? Who would you most like to see come back and how?

Ranker did a Namor's Rogue gallery showcase/vote here

I agree with their top three, Attuma, Tiger Shark, and Llyra, making a big splashy comeback. I would have Attuma as an infrequent foe, and give Tiger Shark more presence and to seem more menacing, his new Shark human look in Invaders is looking better than his human in a shark costume look.

The biggest ongoing villain I would have back just trying to ruin things is Llyra, I feel that she out of most of Namor's enemies has hurt him personally the most, with poisoning Namora, killing Dorma, and having a hand in killing his father, R*ping Namor when she pretended to be Susan, then lying about her having his son, basically setting Atlantis on the course for destruction, Llyra is a shapeshifter and insane about power and hurt by Namor rejecting her so she would have the most drive to want to try and destroy Namor. She is off in limbo now and if she comes back she could add intrigue and deception rather than straight on fights, like with Tiger Shark and Attuma. It would be easy to bring her back, just have her shapeshifted as one of Namor's allies in court and then reveal her to be behind things.

Having Krang back would be good, I liked his and Namor's dynamic in The First Mutant, where he thinks he will wait for the best opportunity to overthrow Namor for the throne. New villains would be great! but those four are the ones who could make an easy comeback.

Ranker lists Doctor Doom as a foe but I've always seen Namor and Doom more as frienemies so I would love to have that in his comics too. (btw I love your username and icon!).

Mainly just having things set in Atlantis and opening up more about the court is good, but we need to have people on Namor's side like Vashti. Also Andromeda is Attuma's daughter but she turned her back on her father to serve Atlantis and Namor. So bringing her and Attuma in for some father daughter fight would add a good second storyline.

[KOSLOX]

I think they should do a Namor run that relies heavily on Romance of the Three Kingdoms.

Right now Atlantis is heavily in disarray due the last few years of event storytelling, so having a warring states storyline with various pretenders and a reunification saga would be a great way to get mileage out of the character and build up his rogues.

[Reviresco]

I think they should do a Namor run that relies heavily on Romance of the Three Kingdoms.

Right now Atlantis is heavily in disarray due the last few years of event storytelling, so having a warring states storyline with various pretenders and a reunification saga would be a great way to get mileage out of the character and build up his rogues.

I agree 1000%. I've long wanted a Game of Thrones type, looong storyline, where the underwater kingdoms / cities were explored and brought together. Can you imagine something like The Battle of Red Cliffs sprawling across the comic page? When I saw Mukesh Singh's 18 DAYS, I thought, YES. We need those sort of battle scenes in a Namor book.








But not neglect the politics and dance of alliances. Maybe even forge some alliances with a few surface world countries OTHER than the US. If Atlantis and China allied, that would keep the US, and Ka-Zar, from just waltzing in whenever they wanted to destroy it. Namor even has a foothold in the Middle East, with Mazikhandar.

[KOSLOX]

You could call it "Saga of the Submariner". Give it a 12-18 issue run with a top writing and art team. The title has sort of a gravitas to it and seems built for a prestige style perennial bookstore seller.

That way you also can get kind of a soft reset of the character and use aspects existing canon while telling a largely original and relatively self contained story.

Then after "Saga" ends you can transition to a regular monthly.

[KOSLOX]

Also, I've never heard of 18 Days but that looks amazing.

Get that person to draw it! Or my other choice Dustin Weaver.

[Reviresco]

You could call it "Saga of the Submariner". Give it a 12-18 issue run with a top writing and art team. The title has sort of a gravitas to it and seems built for a prestige style perennial bookstore seller.

That way you also can get kind of a soft reset of the character and use aspects existing canon while telling a largely original and relatively self contained story.

Then after "Saga" ends you can transition to a regular monthly.

GMTA! This is alot like what they did for John Byrne's Namor series. There was 12 issue autobiography of Namor, yes, he wrote / narrated it, that recapped his entire life up to that point. It was actually called The Saga of the Sub-Mariner, and when it ended, we got the John Byrne series.

I think your idea would be even better, because it would be an epic original story that could world build and reset the character and the setting. If Marvel would give it some extra time for some consistent, amazing art, it would be awesome. I don't read much Aquaman, but the two stories I did read, I remember being blown away by the art. One was Craig Hamilton's 4 issue miniseries, and the other, wasn't really Aquaman, but it was a 7 or 8 issue history of his Atlantis, called The Atlantis Chronicles by Peter David with gorgeous art by Esteban Marato. I've always something similar for Namor and Marvel's Atlantis. Even though Marvel did it first, with the Tales of Atlantis backups in Subby's Silver / Bronze Age book, it wasn't nearly in depth or beautiful as the DC series.

Also, I've never heard of 18 Days but that looks amazing.

Get that person to draw it! Or my other choice Dustin Weaver.

Someone on this thread turned me on to it. There's a comic with a different artist, but these pics are from an art book that Mukesh Singh did with Grant Morrison. It's "a re-imagining of the great eastern myth, Mahabharata, and follows the course of the climactic war that concludes the age of the gods and begins the age of man." I'm not sure what his interiors would like, but Mukesh Singh has actually drawn Namor before. He did the first of Robinson's All New Invaders covers.

[Blind Wedjat]

Wow, that guy's art is beautiful. I love that last Namor design and the 18 DAYS art. Absolutely gorgeous stuff. What would it take to get more guys like this to draw for Marvel?

Also, I just wanted to say, I read this thread a lot. You guys have lots of interesting talks here and I'm learning a lot of stuff about Namor. One of my favourite comic book characters is Aquaman (alongside Black Panther being #1) but I'm really interested in Namor as well. I don't know where exactly to start reading from but I read an Invaders issue (I've never read any Namor books). I'm quite interested in the character and it's nice to read what his fans to say, including the complaints about how his character has been handled.

I should also add, as a BP fan and knowing that including Namor in a BP sequel would most likely mean the great feats would go to T'Challa, I am totally against having Namor in it (it's just a rumour for now so I doubt it'll actually happen). I don't want a Wakanda vs Atlantis storyline. That to me just sounds like abandoning everything I thought made the first film special for some generic sci-fi/fantasy war film, which doesn't really appeal to me and doesn't like Coogler's thing also (sounds very studio mandated if you ask me and the last thing Marvel Studios wants to do is to tell Coogler what kind of movie he should make).

From the much I've read about Namor here, he would be better served in a Fantastic Four movie or Avengers movie as a character introduced, similar to BP and Spider-Man in Civil War. Or even better, his own solo film. While DC and Aquaman comparisons would be inevitable, there are ways to set him apart from Aquaman. Have a more serious toned movie. Make Marvel's Atlantis look darker and more mysterious, less colourful and high fantasy, and with an Asian/Middle Eastern meets steampunk vibe and aesthetic. Give Namor a bit more of a morally grey character but he shouldn't be a villain. Give him a confidence and edge to his character, but let the sense that he's just trying to do the right thing be there.

BP vs Namor would just be a wasted opportunity, unless it can possibly end with them earning each other's respect and aligning against a common foe. But I just think it's unnecessary. Both character deserve better than that, and including Namor just feels like adding too much to a wonderfully set up sequel and a lot more to explore regarding what BP has done and can do for the MCU.

[KOSLOX]

Wow, that guy's art is beautiful. I love that last Namor design and the 18 DAYS art. Absolutely gorgeous stuff. What would it take to get more guys like this to draw for Marvel?

Also, I just wanted to say, I read this thread a lot. You guys have lots of interesting talks here and I'm learning a lot of stuff about Namor. One of my favourite comic book characters is Aquaman (alongside Black Panther being #1) but I'm really interested in Namor as well. I don't know where exactly to start reading from but I read an Invaders issue (I've never read any Namor books). I'm quite interested in the character and it's nice to read what his fans to say, including the complaints about how his character has been handled.

I should also add, as a BP fan and knowing that including Namor in a BP sequel would most likely mean the great feats would go to T'Challa, I am totally against having Namor in it (it's just a rumour for now so I doubt it'll actually happen). I don't want a Wakanda vs Atlantis storyline. That to me just sounds like abandoning everything I thought made the first film special for some generic sci-fi/fantasy war film, which doesn't really appeal to me and doesn't like Coogler's thing also (sounds very studio mandated if you ask me and the last thing Marvel Studios wants to do is to tell Coogler what kind of movie he should make).

From the much I've read about Namor here, he would be better served in a Fantastic Four movie or Avengers movie as a character introduced, similar to BP and Spider-Man in Civil War. Or even better, his own solo film. While DC and Aquaman comparisons would be inevitable, there are ways to set him apart from Aquaman. Have a more serious toned movie. Make Marvel's Atlantis look darker and more mysterious, less colourful and high fantasy, and with an Asian/Middle Eastern meets steampunk vibe and aesthetic. Give Namor a bit more of a morally grey character but he shouldn't be a villain. Give him a confidence and edge to his character, but let the sense that he's just trying to do the right thing be there.

BP vs Namor would just be a wasted opportunity, unless it can possibly end with them earning each other's respect and aligning against a common foe. But I just think it's unnecessary. Both character deserve better than that, and including Namor just feels like adding too much to a wonderfully set up sequel and a lot more to explore regarding what BP has done and can do for the MCU.

I wish they would just reset their relationship. I think BP and Namor share a lot of traits, and could be great allies. I also wish they would retcon the Invaders so that they had a "Secret" Invaders that featured T'challa's grandfather.

They could have run missions in Northern Africa along with John Aman, but due to Wakanda's isolationist stance Azzuri had to adopt a separate secret identity.

Namor could have known and respected T'challa's grandfather, but doesn't think T'challa is living up to his potential. I think that would be a more interesting dynamic.

[ImperiusWrecked]

I wish they would just reset their relationship. I think BP and Namor share a lot of traits, and could be great allies. I also wish they would retcon the Invaders so that they had a "Secret" Invaders that featured T'challa's grandfather.

They could have run missions in Northern Africa along with John Aman, but due to Wakanda's isolationist stance Azzuri had to adopt a separate secret identity.

Namor could have known and respected T'challa's grandfather, but doesn't think T'challa is living up to his potential. I think that would be a more interesting dynamic.

YES. Have you read Black Panther (2005) #21 Aqua-Boogie?! In that comic Namor welcomes Tchalla and Ororo to Atlantis and they speak, Namor tells them of the time the Invaders were near Wakanda, and how he had meet T'challa's grandfather, he also warns T'challa about Doom. A good comic that I rec if you haven't checked it out yet.
blackpantheraqua1.jpg

[ImperiusWrecked]

I agree 1000%. I've long wanted a Game of Thrones type, looong storyline, where the underwater kingdoms / cities were explored and brought together. Can you imagine something like The Battle of Red Cliffs sprawling across the comic page? When I saw Mukesh Singh's 18 DAYS, I thought, YES. We need those sort of battle scenes in a Namor book.

But not neglect the politics and dance of alliances. Maybe even forge some alliances with a few surface world countries OTHER than the US. If Atlantis and China allied, that would keep the US, and Ka-Zar, from just waltzing in whenever they wanted to destroy it. Namor even has a foothold in the Middle East, with Mazikhandar.

You could call it "Saga of the Submariner". Give it a 12-18 issue run with a top writing and art team. The title has sort of a gravitas to it and seems built for a prestige style perennial bookstore seller.

That way you also can get kind of a soft reset of the character and use aspects existing canon while telling a largely original and relatively self contained story.

Then after "Saga" ends you can transition to a regular monthly.

I'm loving these ideas and Namor would SO benefit from having beautiful art and whole series especially one that gives us the world building we sadly lack. Amazing ideas everyone!!!