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  1. #46
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    LOL, Honestly I still have issues every time Sue/Namor comes up because its all people really know him for, but his time with the Fantastic Four (if we include all their comics of which there are A LOT) Namor doesn't show up every two issues to try and seduce Sue. He comes and goes and is mostly used in my opinion as a contrast to Reed.

    Here we have Reed: A smart scientist more interested in his work than human connection (though i do know he has a good relationship with his family) focusing more on the brainy aspects, a nice guy compared to Namor and one of the heroes of the Fantastic Four. He is the guy Marvel wants you to root for, the underdog compared to Namor.

    Then we have Namor: A handsome, arrogant, brash, prince from the far off magical underwater city of Atlantis strutting around showing off his riches and muscles and saying he wants a queen, the dream fantasy for most girls, and the bad boy compared to Reed.

    I once read something, where their relationship was compared to Namor being Catwoman to Susan's Batman, he would swoop in to distract and seduce the main hero in a tight fitting garment and then be on his merry way to do whatever he wants. Which made me laugh honestly.

    Namor was never going to end up with Sue, it was just a love triangle that Marvel dragged on for years and teased fans with. If it was going to happen then it would have happened way back in the early fantastic four comics but now its far too late and really I am pretty tired of him only being remembered for susan storm and black panther. I really really hope that Marvel doesn't bring it up again. If you see the times when Namor and Sue were just friends and where writers were not trying to force them together they have this great friendship. The thing that bothers people most is that Namor always gets along better with female characters than he does males, and he is really only Susan's friend, not Reed or Ben or Johnny. IMO he tolerates them because Susan is a good person and he values her and her friendship.
    That's not entirely my reason for not caring as much for the Namor / Sue relationship, but yes, that does seem to be what a lot of people know him for. Of course, it's usually how he is introduced in cartoons, also. The double edged sword of popular exposure.

    Sadly, it is always going to be brought up, because some writers want to use him to liven up Reed and Sue's relationship. Sue also isn't above using Namor to do so. Also, it is a way to bring Namor into whatever is going on with the FF. I don't know if they have a _great_ friendship, but Namor will always having feelings for her, just as he has feeling for his two deceased wives, and Betty Dean, and Tamara, and Diane Arliss, and all the ladies in his life. And of course, to be fair, Namor WOULD start a more than platonic relationship with Sue, IF Sue wanted to.


    I agree with the bolded, but I don't think that is what bothers people about Namor and Sue's relationship. No one wants to be 'left' in a relationship, and few blame themselves when it happens. So, they blame the guy their SO left with, instead looking at what went wrong with the relationship. There may be a bit of projecting going on. And Reed is almost always cast as the absent minded husband, who sometimes forgets his family while working. Oddly, Bendis, or maybe it was Reed, on their Illuminati mini-series.




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  2. #47
    Mighty Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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    What if #27: Namor Joined the Fantastic Four?:



  3. #48
    Mighty Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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  4. #49
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Thanks for posting those scans from that What If? LordUltimus! I don't think things would have turned out quite so rosy -- yes, I know they take a turn for the worse later -- but IF a writer was going to put Namor and Sue together, it would have happened early on like this, before she gave her heart to Reed.

    It does make me smile to see Namor in his unstable molecules speedo.
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  5. #50
    Citizen of Atlantis ImperiusWrecked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    Wow...missed a lot of activity.

    I really hope that with Doom's new status post-Secret Wars that we do see a reunion. One is never sure what the characters remember from the time on Battleworld but I know Namor got blasted by God Emperor Doom in one of the last issues. I wasn't sure if it was fatal or not. In any case, it hasn't effected his current status.

    I think my favorite Doom/Namor story is the multi-part issue written by Gerry Conway and drawn by Gene Colan in the Sub-Mariner series. I always theorized that this might have been their next chapter in Astonishing Tales. It ended rather abruptly in AT #8, with a tease for the next issue's story titled "Doomsmasque". IIRC it was used in the Sub-Mariner stories for the issue title. Maybe Conway just liked the title and wanted to use it again since his AT story never came to be.
    My favorite has to be Emperor Doom where he and Namor plot to use the purple man to gain control of the world, and honestly I have a hard time narrowing it down but that is one of my favorites, I love anything they are in together and really wish that after the Sub-Mariner (2007) series when he ended it with going to Latveria, that we had gotten another team up mini or something, it would have been really great.


    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    There's a lot of problems with Twitter, which is why I've avoided it as far as using it -- though I do lurk a bit. But I'm planning to jump in this year, mostly for Namor related stuff. We all have our boundaries, though some don't appear to, when it comes to social media. I also prefer not to DM creators, but I definitely am going to be tagging a few.

    Not familiar with Leah Williams, but I'll check her stuff out.

    I'll see if I can find any info about the letters page e-mail this weekend.
    Awesome! I will wait to see what you can find, and for Leah check out her What if? Magik oneshot (2018), people have been raving over it and it shows what if Doctor Strange had found Magik in Limbo. https://comicstore.marvel.com/What-I...al-comic/49447


    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    That's not entirely my reason for not caring as much for the Namor / Sue relationship, but yes, that does seem to be what a lot of people know him for. Of course, it's usually how he is introduced in cartoons, also. The double edged sword of popular exposure.

    Sadly, it is always going to be brought up, because some writers want to use him to liven up Reed and Sue's relationship. Sue also isn't above using Namor to do so. Also, it is a way to bring Namor into whatever is going on with the FF. I don't know if they have a _great_ friendship, but Namor will always having feelings for her, just as he has feeling for his two deceased wives, and Betty Dean, and Tamara, and Diane Arliss, and all the ladies in his life. And of course, to be fair, Namor WOULD start a more than platonic relationship with Sue, IF Sue wanted to.


    I agree with the bolded, but I don't think that is what bothers people about Namor and Sue's relationship. No one wants to be 'left' in a relationship, and few blame themselves when it happens. So, they blame the guy their SO left with, instead looking at what went wrong with the relationship. There may be a bit of projecting going on. And Reed is almost always cast as the absent minded husband, who sometimes forgets his family while working. Oddly, Bendis, or maybe it was Reed, on their Illuminati mini-series.
    I remember those panels, good stuff, because it shows that Namor isn't doing things for the sake of wanting to be 'homewrecker' but that he genuinely cares for and thinks that Sue needs saving. Namor and Sue could have worked in the beginning before Susan and Reed got together but now they will always have those, what if moments between them. I think Namor is better friends with Susan than he is with the others but not that they are very close friends of course and I agree that Namor never really gets over his old loves. Part of what I think drew Namor to Susan was how much she could have reminded him of Betty Dean. Also yeah Susan does use Namor's attentions to get Reed's attention. There was this one comic page I saw but I don't know the comic for where she dresses their son in a swimsuit that looks like Namor's and also is cleaning a statue of Namor and tells Reed the statue is paying attention to her.

    I think its past time Namor got a new relationship or if Dorma could come back that would be really great. (Or Abira? She just disappeared after the last solo, and Marrina is back but there seems to be no hint of putting them back together)


    Thanks for the what if panels LordUltimus!
    "No one should ever question where my allegiance lies." - Namor of Atlantis

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    Attachment 76045

    I found Namor while reading back issues of the x-men and avengers, specifically the Maximoff thanksgiving in the scarlet witch and vision mini, then I went on to read his stories first, Namor the first mutant, etc. so when I came to the FF comics I was less than pleased to see Namor, Reed, and Sue since in other comics Namor is really good, in my opinion he works better when he is away from the avengers and the fantastic four. Teams he works best on are defenders, invaders, and the x-men, but he really works best alone in a solo.
    I agree. I usually enjoy Namor in whatever he is in, but I LOVE Namor in his own solos. There you really get to see him shine and the stories are about him. They are far more consistent with the character. On team books we tend to see only certain aspects that further the team dynamic, or worse, another character, instead of seeing all of Namor's aspects and motivations.

    I remember you saying that was your first Namor issue ... and understanding exactly why. Who is this guy who comes to Thanksgiving in a speedo? LOL! I'll have to think on what was my first appearance of Namor. I'm pretty sure it was one of the John Buscema issues.


    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    I love Namor and Doctor Doom so much. I actually got into Doctor Doom because of Namor. If you want a rec list of all the times they were together in 616 comics here is a link another fan made and gave me permission to put on my fan blog:

    https://namorthesubmariner.tumblr.co...-doom-rec-list

    Attachment 76046

    That comic you are talking about (doom tooting the horn) happened in SPIDEY SUPER STORIES (1974) #53 which is such a gem. I love it. (I am so sorry for rambling on like that, lol, I really can talk forever about this character cause he is my number one fave)
    I have to agree with you there also. There's something so wonderful about the two rulers together. They aren't friends. They tend to manipulate or see each other for their own uses -- or more precisely for their countries. But they are honest with each other ... generally. And yet, in some moments, you can see there's also an undercurrent of something there. Almost like they understand they share certain elements. I'm not sure that makes either of them entirely happy. Sometimes, especially in the Conway arc in Sub-Mariner, where you can see Doom is actually thinking of someone else's opinion, rather than just his own goals.

    I put that Spidey Super Stories issue with the Golden Age stuff. Pure fun comic crack. LOL!

    Hmmm. That recomendation list is shorter than I thought it was. But definitely they are all fun to read. Thanks for sharing it!
    Last edited by Reviresco; 01-04-2019 at 06:07 PM.
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  7. #52
    Citizen of Atlantis ImperiusWrecked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    I agree. I usually enjoy Namor in whatever he is in, but I LOVE Namor in his own solos. There you really get to see him shine and the stories are about him. They are far more consistent with the character. On team books we tend to see only certain aspects that further the team dynamic, or worse, another character, instead of seeing all of Namor's aspects and motivations.

    I remember you saying that was your first Namor issue ... and understanding exactly why. Who is this guy who comes to Thanksgiving in a speedo? LOL! I'll have to think on what was my first appearance of Namor. I'm pretty sure it was one of the John Buscema issues.
    I was very into the X-Men as growing up (still am, lol) and Nightcrawler and Quicksilver are my all time favorites. Going back to read older stories as I was getting back into comics in 2014 and that handsome sea prince caught my eye, but it was also more than the speedo (though that didn't hurt) it was 'why the hell was he so mad at Magneto' and 'look how sweet he is with Wanda', and so I went and found the x-men issue when Magneto tries to convince Namor to join him (uncanny x-men #6). I was head over (winged) heels for him at that point. He was so great! Also I would love to hear your first Namor comic!

    swatv 6 mini cover.jpg

    swatv 6 mini 1.jpg

    swatv 6 mini 2.jpg
    "No one should ever question where my allegiance lies." - Namor of Atlantis

  8. #53
    Citizen of Atlantis ImperiusWrecked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    I have to agree with you there also. There's something so wonderful about the two rulers together. They aren't friends. They tend to manipulate or see each other for their own uses -- or more precisely for their countries. But they are honest with each other ... generally. And yet, in some moments, you can see there's also an undercurrent of something there. Almost like they understand they share certain elements. I'm not sure that makes either of them entirely happy. Sometimes, especially in the Conway arc in Sub-Mariner, where you can see Doom is actually thinking of someone else's opinion, rather than just his own goals.

    I put that Spidey Super Stories issue with the Golden Age stuff. Pure fun comic crack. LOL!

    Hmmm. That recomendation list is shorter than I thought it was. But definitely they are all fun to read. Thanks for sharing it!
    I think the fan who made it only included 616 interactions but I know they have some that are au. Someday I will organize my files/comics and try to make up really good and solid in depth Sub-Mariner recs and Doom and Sib-Mariner recs. *shakes fist at sky* SOMEDAY I SWEAR.

    And yeah! I could talk about how both men are outcasts from surface human society and each one tries (in their own way) to do what they think is necessary and right to achieve their goals and plans, Namor has always seen himself as more of a protector and so he doesn't agree with everything Doom does but also he can understand why Doom does it. I think their frank honesty with calling each other out and just the sheer about of ego and melodrama that happens when they are in a room are so entertaining. They can trust each other by knowing they can't trust each other. lol, also I think Namor is the closest to a friend Doom has because he can trust Namor enough to try and work with him. I think Victor hates that because he tries to put himself above needing human connections and so he is unsettled by it.

    doom and namor first meet panels.jpg
    "No one should ever question where my allegiance lies." - Namor of Atlantis

  9. #54
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    I got distracted by the first pages, and added a few LINKS. I'm looking for Namor specific / related fansites. Or his cast and rogues. I found these and added them. A few haven't been updated recently, but they still have cool info. Let me know if there's something else I should add.


    Namor Tag Articles @Marvel.com

    namorthesubmariner @tumblr run by our own ImperiusWrecked
    the-namor-blog @tumblr
    f+++yeahnamor @tumblr

    ImperiusRexdom @twitter -- run by our own OfAtlantis

    The Namor Podcast

    Chivian's Sub-Mariner Page

    Wild Bill Everett FB Fan Page
    Bill Everett FB - Blake Bell
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  10. #55
    Citizen of Atlantis ImperiusWrecked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    I got distracted by the first pages, and added a few LINKS. I'm looking for Namor specific / related fansites. Or his cast and rogues. I found these and added them. A few haven't been updated recently, but they still have cool info. Let me know if there's something else I should add.


    Namor Tag Articles @Marvel.com

    namorthesubmariner @tumblr run by our own ImperiusWrecked
    the-namor-blog @tumblr
    f+++yeahnamor @tumblr

    ImperiusRexdom @twitter -- run by our own OfAtlantis

    The Namor Podcast

    Chivian's Sub-Mariner Page

    Wild Bill Everett FB Fan Page
    Bill Everett FB - Blake Bell
    Oooh thanks! I'm always looking for more namor fan sites!

    f***yeahnamor was one I followed on tumblr but they stopped posting a little over a year or two ago? So that was when I started my fan blog.

    Also I do have a twitter: subby@imperiuswrecked https://twitter.com/ImperiusWrecked that is just for Namor stuff, to be honest the only reason i got twitter was to look for Sub-Mariner stuff and keep up with the artists and writers who work on stuff.
    "No one should ever question where my allegiance lies." - Namor of Atlantis

  11. #56
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    I was very into the X-Men as growing up (still am, lol) and Nightcrawler and Quicksilver are my all time favorites. Going back to read older stories as I was getting back into comics in 2014 and that handsome sea prince caught my eye, but it was also more than the speedo (though that didn't hurt) it was 'why the hell was he so mad at Magneto' and 'look how sweet he is with Wanda', and so I went and found the x-men issue when Magneto tries to convince Namor to join him (uncanny x-men #6). I was head over (winged) heels for him at that point. He was so great! Also I would love to hear your first Namor comic!

    swatv 6 mini cover.jpg

    swatv 6 mini 1.jpg

    swatv 6 mini 2.jpg
    Like many, I'm sure, I got into the X-Men with Uncanny 94 and the new team with Claremont, Cockrum and then Byrne. Not sure I had a favorite, but I was already a Namor fan. I always found Quicksilver and Wanda an interesting read, but then again, I was reading them during the late Silver Age and the Bronze Age. Some great stories then.

    That X-Men issue with Magneto trying to recruit Namor was great fun. And Namor definitely was swayed by Wanda and playing the knight errant. Of course, that was a different Magneto then, a before Claremont Magneto. There's something else I wished they addressed in Namor's previous stint as an X-Man. He didn't mention anything about pre-Claremont Magneto kidnapping both Sue AND Lady Dorma and using them to control Namor and the FF and the Atlantean invasion.
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  12. #57
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    Oooh thanks! I'm always looking for more namor fan sites!

    f***yeahnamor was one I followed on tumblr but they stopped posting a little over a year or two ago? So that was when I started my fan blog.

    Also I do have a twitter: subby@imperiuswrecked https://twitter.com/ImperiusWrecked that is just for Namor stuff, to be honest the only reason i got twitter was to look for Sub-Mariner stuff and keep up with the artists and writers who work on stuff.
    So am I!

    Yes, I was sad to see f***yeahnamor had stopped. But I hope they will return. OfAtlantis and ImperiusRexdom seems to have taken a hiatus also.


    Great! I'll add your twitter to the list. Thanks!
    Last edited by Reviresco; 01-04-2019 at 10:31 PM.
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  13. #58
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    I think the fan who made it only included 616 interactions but I know they have some that are au. Someday I will organize my files/comics and try to make up really good and solid in depth Sub-Mariner recs and Doom and Sib-Mariner recs. *shakes fist at sky* SOMEDAY I SWEAR.

    And yeah! I could talk about how both men are outcasts from surface human society and each one tries (in their own way) to do what they think is necessary and right to achieve their goals and plans, Namor has always seen himself as more of a protector and so he doesn't agree with everything Doom does but also he can understand why Doom does it. I think their frank honesty with calling each other out and just the sheer about of ego and melodrama that happens when they are in a room are so entertaining. They can trust each other by knowing they can't trust each other. lol, also I think Namor is the closest to a friend Doom has because he can trust Namor enough to try and work with him. I think Victor hates that because he tries to put himself above needing human connections and so he is unsettled by it.

    doom and namor first meet panels.jpg
    I'll have to think on it. I don't recall many AU interactions -- though they both have many AU characters.

    LOL! Good luck with that. The organizing, that it is. I've been trying for years and years! But the recs come from what you read the most ... or like the most.

    Good point. They are both outsiders. I think, at least until Hickman, that Namor was portrayed as a ruler with more ... boundaries than Doom. There were lines that he wouldn't cross. And the bolded is exactly right! It's very amusing to watch them navigate that dynamic. That and all the DRAMA!!!
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  14. #59
    Citizen of Atlantis ImperiusWrecked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    I'll have to think on it. I don't recall many AU interactions -- though they both have many AU characters.

    LOL! Good luck with that. The organizing, that it is. I've been trying for years and years! But the recs come from what you read the most ... or like the most.

    Good point. They are both outsiders. I think, at least until Hickman, that Namor was portrayed as a ruler with more ... boundaries than Doom. There were lines that he wouldn't cross. And the bolded is exactly right! It's very amusing to watch them navigate that dynamic. That and all the DRAMA!!!
    Haha, I'll take all the luck I can get!

    Yes, Namor used to have lines that he wouldn't (and still) doesn't cross, but Hickman's Namor... I both like and dislike it. It was to me largely based on what happened with AVX and his personality seemed more like Phoenix Namor's than Classic Namor. He had some good lines and the dynamics were interesting to read but really that old classic Namor that I love isn't there. He was more of an edgelord gloomy Namor. Namor is really noble and Hickman didn't show that nobility there, but I do hope that Chip writes him better in Invaders.
    "No one should ever question where my allegiance lies." - Namor of Atlantis

  15. #60
    Mighty Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    Well, I don't think anyone will deny that Namor has a certain arrogance.
    In fact, he actually proposed to Sue as soon as he met her, long before Reed did.
    This is such an awesome and rarely mentioned point! Myself being a child in the '60s and young adult in the '70s, I always saw this romantic side of Namor. Of course as 'norms' go, in that time, Namor could be seen as a rogue of some sort. He could be the smoldering guy-candy on the cover of that era of romance novels.

    .... but certainly norms, standards etc will change and it is all to easy to see it through a different lens.
    While it would be nice if Marvel could do more for just platonic relationships between men and women, Namor and Sue would not be the place to start with.

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