Namor the Sub-Mariner Appreciation 2019

[Oberon]

The thing that bothers people most is that Namor always gets along better with female characters than he does males, and he is really only Susan's friend, not Reed or Ben or Johnny. IMO he tolerates them because Susan is a good person and he values her and her friendship.

That's what I'm talking about, though I may see this differently; Namor is always this way, charming and sexy. Comforting and also, unsubtle. Not only do I recall all this with Sue, but to some degree, most of the other women he is associated with - and yeah, also a very salient point, he is Marvel's best example of a man treating a woman this way, getting "along better". Namor is the guy who understands women's emotions, better than most of the men they may "be with".

[ImperiusWrecked]

That's what I'm talking about, though I may see this differently; Namor is always this way, charming and sexy. Comforting and also, unsubtle. Not only do I recall all this with Sue, but to some degree, most of the other women he is associated with - and yeah, also a very salient point, he is Marvel's best example of a man treating a woman this way, getting "along better". Namor is the guy who understands women's emotions, better than most of the men they may "be with".

Namor is one of the few characters who gets along better than women, respects them more than men, even refusing to work with others who would speak badly to a woman and the main reason why Aaron's Namor sits so ill with me because he writes Namor being disrespectful to she-hulk and carol by dismissing them, and saying things about himself and their features. Namor treats women right (if sometimes he is a bit too forward with his affections) and so Aaron doesn't get that above all he is "no mere gentleman" and I would say being raised by Fen as a single mother helped too. Also I think it has to do with the writer Everett who was from what I could tell from the book fire & water, close to his own mother. SO he may have added those qualities early on in his character?


A fan on tumblr once summed up Namor in a nutshell and it never fails to make me laugh:

namor with women: my beautiful lady the pleasure is all mine to bask in your beauty that rivals the moonlit sea on a starry night please excuse me if i cant take my eyes off you you are simply the most stunning creature in existence did i mention im a king i could make you my queen ill take you to my underwater palace perhaps we should go there now if you would permit the honor

namor with men: yO WHAT THE **** YOU LOOKIN AT YOU WNAA FUCKING FIGHT M E OR SOMETHING LETS GO?!!?



A fandom friend and I have dubbed him the Undersea Romeo. Remember that time he once scaled a cliff to bring his current lady love a fish and the whole time I was thinking: NAMOR YOU CAN FLY. USE YOUR WINGS. YOU DRAMATIC - (just kidding lol)

namor annual 2 panel 1.jpg

From the 90's sub-mariner annual 2

[Reviresco]

This is such an awesome and rarely mentioned point! Myself being a child in the '60s and young adult in the '70s, I always saw this romantic side of Namor. Of course as 'norms' go, in that time, Namor could be seen as a rogue of some sort. He could be the smoldering guy-candy on the cover of that era of romance novels.

.... but certainly norms, standards etc will change and it is all to easy to see it through a different lens.
While it would be nice if Marvel could do more for just platonic relationships between men and women, Namor and Sue would not be the place to start with.

Yes, well, that point gets in the way of some people's negative perception of Namor.

Romantic, both large and small R, is a large aspect of the character since the beginning. Of course, we don't get to see that in all his guest starring / support showings, which annoys me. Of course, the "norms" of the time should be considered, as I'm discovering in my other Namor project. And yes. LOL! I think there's definitely a perception now of Namor being smoldering eye candy.

[Reviresco]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BsQjb9qHoxF/

I love this!

[Reviresco]

That's what I'm talking about, though I may see this differently; Namor is always this way, charming and sexy. Comforting and also, unsubtle. Not only do I recall all this with Sue, but to some degree, most of the other women he is associated with - and yeah, also a very salient point, he is Marvel's best example of a man treating a woman this way, getting "along better". Namor is the guy who understands women's emotions, better than most of the men they may "be with".

I would say, generally, yes, though some have written him as a clueless also. The other two factors critics usually ignore is that clearly, there's a cultural difference between Atlanteans and the surface world about sex. And, there may be a certain Tudor / Sun King attitude about the Atlantean court, with favorites and such that may effect his perceptions / actions.

Namor is one of the few characters who gets along better than women, respects them more than men, even refusing to work with others who would speak badly to a woman and the main reason why Aaron's Namor sits so ill with me because he writes Namor being disrespectful to she-hulk and carol by dismissing them, and saying things about himself and their features. Namor treats women right (if sometimes he is a bit too forward with his affections) and so Aaron doesn't get that above all he is "no mere gentleman" and I would say being raised by Fen as a single mother helped too. Also I think it has to do with the writer Everett who was from what I could tell from the book fire & water, close to his own mother. SO he may have added those qualities early on in his character?


A fan on tumblr once summed up Namor in a nutshell and it never fails to make me laugh:

namor with women: my beautiful lady the pleasure is all mine to bask in your beauty that rivals the moonlit sea on a starry night please excuse me if i cant take my eyes off you you are simply the most stunning creature in existence did i mention im a king i could make you my queen ill take you to my underwater palace perhaps we should go there now if you would permit the honor

namor with men: yO WHAT THE **** YOU LOOKIN AT YOU WNAA FUCKING FIGHT M E OR SOMETHING LETS GO?!!?

LOL! There's no doubt Namor has a different attitude toward men than he does women. And I agree, I think part of it comes from Everett himself, who was basically raised by his mother and sister, IIRC. His dad had job that involved a lot of travel, I think.

The way the character was developed, it makes sense. The male characters in his early life were always treating him badly -- his grandfather, Byrrah, Krang, etc. The female characters were supportive or his friends -- Fen, Dorma, Namora. It was sort of a negative vs positive reinforcement thing. That's one reason why I like Vashti so much. He was like the first male character I recall that seemed to care about Namor. He was like a foster father, or maybe like Namor's Alfred.

A fandom friend and I have dubbed him the Undersea Romeo. Remember that time he once scaled a cliff to bring his current lady love a fish and the whole time I was thinking: NAMOR YOU CAN FLY. USE YOUR WINGS. YOU DRAMATIC - (just kidding lol)

namor annual 2 panel 1.jpg

From the 90's sub-mariner annual 2

Poor Namor.

[Oberon]

Until a superior relationship can be found for Namor I would rather he play the part of a unrequited suitor of some sort; to Sue, perhaps, or the doomed romance of Dorma or Marrina. Not to say he has this on his non-sleeve, but that these things and this part of him are his basic past, that affects his actions today.

He should never forget his feelings for Betty, Susan, Dorma or any of them. He was maybe kind of sort of on the verge of deeper feelings with Diane, and this would have been classic to his character and the Shakespearian quality of his stories back them Yes, more better Atlantis, please.

[LordUltimus]

Weren't Namor and Storm in a relationship in that Age of X fake reality? That might be interesting to explore in canon.

[Reviresco]

Until a superior relationship can be found for Namor I would rather he play the part of a unrequited suitor of some sort; to Sue, perhaps, or the doomed romance of Dorma or Marrina. Not to say he has this on his non-sleeve, but that these things and this part of him are his basic past, that affects his actions today.

He should never forget his feelings for Betty, Susan, Dorma or any of them. He was maybe kind of sort of on the verge of deeper feelings with Diane, and this would have been classic to his character and the Shakespearian quality of his stories back them Yes, more better Atlantis, please.

Definitely, more Atlantis! And that's one thing I love about Namor, is that he does NOT forget his relationships, even if they've ended.

I don't think Namor will actually find a relationship, until he gets a solo. Though, if we look at his last one, that relationship with Abira didn't last either. When he gets used in teams or other books, however, he's being used as third point of a triangle, where he has zero chance at a real relationship, like with Emma or Sue.

I did like Diane Arliss, but she never stood a chance against Lady Dorma. I'm glad she married Walter Newell.

[Reviresco]

Weren't Namor and Storm in a relationship in that Age of X fake reality? That might be interesting to explore in canon.

Yes, they were married. And then one of the writers had them have the memories erased. I thought that was completely OOC for Namor, a man who has had problems with amnesia, and values his previous relationships, and who likes Storm. There's no way he'd have Emma, of all people, messing around with his memories.

All that said, I'd have to vote a resounding NO, to having that explored. It would just lead to more, Namor is a Black Panther villain stuff. No thanks!

[DragonsChi]

Yes, they were married. And then one of the writers had them have the memories erased. I thought that was completely OOC for Namor, a man who has had problems with amnesia, and values his previous relationships, and who likes Storm. There's no way he'd have Emma, of all people, messing around with his memories.

All that said, I'd have to vote a resounding NO, to having that explored. It would just lead to more, Namor is a Black Panther villain stuff. No thanks!

Which is a shame since Storm and Namor would actually work in story and to move both of them further up the Marvel later.

That BP & Storm marriage screwed up a lot of things.

[Reviresco]

Which is a shame since Storm and Namor would actually work in story and to move both of them further up the Marvel later.

That BP & Storm marriage screwed up a lot of things.

Well, I think the reaction, both by fans and editorial, screwed up things. Even Black Panther fans eventually ended up unhappy.


I don't know. It's tough for a character outside the X-universe, and there are plenty who considered Namor a non-X-character, even when he was on the team, to deal with a popular X-character like Storm. Heck, even Taylor avoided Namor and Storm interaction in his X-Men Red -- despite Storm using Namor's elements in her attacks.

[DragonsChi]

Well, I think the reaction, both by fans and editorial, screwed up things. Even Black Panther fans eventually ended up unhappy.


I don't know. It's tough for a character outside the X-universe, and there are plenty who considered Namor a non-X-character, even when he was on the team, to deal with a popular X-character like Storm. Heck, even Taylor avoided Namor and Storm interaction in his X-Men Red -- despite Storm using Namor's elements in her attacks.

Best thing about Namor is that he can move in and out of anywhere in the Marvel universe. He isn't a X-Character, he isn't a Defender, he isn't a Avenger, he isn't a member of the FF, he isn't a hero, and he isn't a villain. Namor is a noble king of 70% of the Earth. Within that he is all those things when he needs to be and none of those things the rest of the time except for a king. That is how Marvel should run him. What everyone else says or does doesn't matter because that fit's the nature of his character.

But yeah Taylor pretty much left Namor out of the book. Not sure why he even asked for him outside of giving Jean a base. However, I'm pretty confident that X-Men Red will be forgotten by the end of the year. That book was pretty bad all things considered.

[ImperiusWrecked]

Best thing about Namor is that he can move in and out of anywhere in the Marvel universe. He isn't a X-Character, he isn't a Defender, he isn't a Avenger, he isn't a member of the FF, he isn't a hero, and he isn't a villain. Namor is a noble king of 70% of the Earth. Within that he is all those things when he needs to be and none of those things the rest of the time except for a king. That is how Marvel should run him what everyone else says or does doesn't matter because that fit's the nature of his character.

But yeah Taylor pretty much left Namor out of the book. Not sure why he even asked for him outside of giving Jean a base. However, I'm pretty confident that X-Men Red will be forgotten by the end of the year. That book was pretty bad all things considered.

I was super excited for X-Men Red and so very disappointed. This was a chance to have Namor interact with a whole group of people some of whom he hadn't ever done more than share panel time with. I was hoping Kurt and Namor would at least speak to each other in German since they both know that language but Taylor really only used Namor because he wanted Atlantis and then when it was the one issue that featured Namor nearly had it destroyed AGAIN. This book was totally Jean's book and everyone else was just her support which is why I prefer Namor not to be on a team book. Also though I do enjoy him for X-Books and being on the X-Men, there just isn't enough time to get to all of the characters and he doesn't really get much out of them.

What Taylor could have done was play on how the Phoenix still affected Namor. It would have given us something and since Jean was the Phoenix too she and him could have made a friendship. I totally agree that even though Namor and Storm could have made a good couple it would only feed into more Namor vs Black Panther stuff, so no thanks for that.

Sadly I think Abira isn't coming back, and the only Atlantean from his old crew (that is still alive and remembered cause Marrina isn't coming back into Namor's story unless a writer remembers they were married once) is Lady Andromeda, who I think they are just friends. I would love it if in a Namor book we could get more Andromeda, she has a good base to work off of, daughter of Attuma, turning her back on her father to be a warrior and serve Atlantis and its ruler. We could use that to have more Namor vs Attuma interactions and do more of the Atlantean court and introduce a new character (or bring back dorma) to serve as a love interest for Namor.

[Of Atlantis]

Hey everyone! I've been out of the loop on CBR for a while now and just catching up. Hope everyone had a spectacular New Year!

I'm glad to see Namor being used by Marvel more often these days. I know it's something we've all be waiting for. Good to see a new thread pop up and an amazing job by Rev (good to see you active again) for their work summarizing some Namor points of interest in the first few pages. Hopefully, we'll be seeing an influx of fans flood in soon!

It seems lately with his appearance in Avengers that Marvel's definitely going the sympathetic villain route with Namor going forward. I've come to terms with it, as I feel the influx of drama regarding climate change in today's society would definitely warrant more action being taken by a Sea King such as Namor. I liked how powerful he seems to be in Avengers, though one thing I did object was how violent he was against Stringray. Luckily, it was revealed he didn't outright kill him. Though it was nice seeing him take on the entire Avengers squad on his own. That's the powerful version of Namor I missed seeing.

As for Defenders, I loved Zdarsky's take on him and every interview I've read where he talks about Namor has him saying all the right things. Looking forward to Invaders! The Defenders series as a whole was a great, underrated mini-series. I haven't been keeping up with comics like I used to, but I can thoroughly say i enjoyed that.

As for X-Men: Red... I found it super disappointing. Found his role terribly minor and honestly, he could've been excluded from the book and it really wouldn't have missed much of a beat at all. I could live with the fact if Namor wasn't involved in the X-verse moving forward. I feel like his time prior to AvX with them was a pinnacle that won't be topped any time soon.

So am I!

Yes, I was sad to see f***yeahnamor had stopped. But I hope they will return. OfAtlantis and ImperiusRexdom seems to have taken a hiatus also.


Great! I'll add your twitter to the list. Thanks!

I can explain that lol. What happened was my new job allowed me less access in front of a desktop computer. I was actually thinking I could hijack a Reddit thread for us at some point so we could freely discuss Namor through mobile quickly an easily. CBR has terrible mobile capabilities, and Twitter is honestly just has a toxic community.

[Reviresco]

Best thing about Namor is that he can move in and out of anywhere in the Marvel universe. He isn't a X-Character, he isn't a Defender, he isn't a Avenger, he isn't a member of the FF, he isn't a hero, and he isn't a villain. Namor is a noble king of 70% of the Earth. Within that he is all those things when he needs to be and none of those things the rest of the time except for a king. That is how Marvel should run him what everyone else says or does doesn't matter because that fit's the nature of his character.

I agree, especially with the bolded. However, somehow, editorial has got it into their head that isn't interesting enough to support a solo. Hence all all the teams and above the waves, cannon fodder Atlantean stories. It's ridiculous. Like one of the most popular shows on TV isn't all about an epic fight over the throne of their known world. Like Aquaman isn't making a billion dollars on that premise. And heck, how much is Marvel spending on Conan? Who isn't really connected to any MU team or character -- except maybe Namor! LOL!