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  1. #961
    Fantastic Member Doombot's Avatar
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    I agree that Hulk and Thor should be stronger and Namor should still be able to give them a run for their money due to having unique abilities, but over the years it seems it's far less unpredictable when these characters meet. No one these days really is expecting Namor to come out on top if facing Thor or Hulk. It SHLOUD be a real slugfest, anyone can win, type of encounter, but it doesnt feel that way in the modern age.

  2. #962
    Ultimate Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    From what I was told Namor didn't appear, but then usually in AU's Namor and sue always get paired up.
    I didn't say he appeared, I said he was mentioned. Peter was working for Reed, and fired the zinger about Sue running off when he quit.

  3. #963
    Mighty Member Thor-El's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doombot View Post
    Interesting. What do most people think about Namor's strength these days? Has he diminished as other powerhouses continue to become more powerful? Should he be on Thor/Hulk levels of sheer strength? Over the years both Hulk and Thor's powers have not only expanded, with all kinds of variations and expansions of power sets, but their basic strength has as well. Where does poor ol' Subby stand, and where should he stand in your opinion?
    Definitely on the same level of Thor and Hulk. Thor was thought as stronger than Hulk during the silver age but I thought physically perhaps Namor and Thor were almost equal just Thor with Mjolnir and his lightning powers or Odinforce would offset the balance. I've always liked Namor as the pinnacle of physical strength in the Marvel universe, or at least sharing this position with Thor and Hulk. Poor Thor hasn't have much luck lately too, even though I don't follow his adventures as I used to in my youth I've seen fans are not too happy nowadays with the way he is being written.

  4. #964
    Citizen of Atlantis ImperiusWrecked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    I didn't say he appeared, I said he was mentioned. Peter was working for Reed, and fired the zinger about Sue running off when he quit.
    Ouch, that's gotta hurt, ok thanks for clarifying! I was wondering if he had appeared later in the comic.
    "No one should ever question where my allegiance lies." - Namor of Atlantis

  5. #965
    Citizen of Atlantis ImperiusWrecked's Avatar
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    My ranking would go; Hulk is the strongest there is (lol) and then Thor and Namor would be on the same level, just like with Hercules. Namor has limits like if he is far from water, or dehydrated, but in water he should be the strongest. ANother advantage Namor has is he moves in three dimensional space in the water, and can attack from any angle while on land he can do that as well: Back and forth on the ground, and up and down in the air. Thor can only fly with his hammer and Hulk can jump but Namor can stay in the air and turn much faster than the others can. I feel he is much more agile than the other two.

    So yeah in water he should be king, (I disliked how the Thing beat him in water a during AVX) on land he comes out just below Hulk with strength.
    "No one should ever question where my allegiance lies." - Namor of Atlantis

  6. #966
    Citizen of Atlantis ImperiusWrecked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doombot View Post
    Yup, 100%

    I agree with Imperius in that my first instinct would be world building. I can't think of a character that comes from a unique corner of the MU that has been around so long and had so little development in terms of society and environment. Marvel's oceans and Atlantis need serious attention.
    They totally do, however Things fall apart is so right. We need more lovecraftian sea monsters and stuff. I just wish we could get a book with a writer who cares about world building. Marvel needs to stop neglecting Atlantis as a powerhouse location.
    "No one should ever question where my allegiance lies." - Namor of Atlantis

  7. #967
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doombot View Post
    Interesting. What do most people think about Namor's strength these days? Has he diminished as other powerhouses continue to become more powerful? Should he be on Thor/Hulk levels of sheer strength? Over the years both Hulk and Thor's powers have not only expanded, with all kinds of variations and expansions of power sets, but their basic strength has as well. Where does poor ol' Subby stand, and where should he stand in your opinion?
    Namor should be the strongest there is ... UNDERWATER. Just on sheer strength. He should also have the huge advantage of playing at home in the hostile environment he lives in. Back in the day, these were acknowledged and taken into account. Nowadays ... well, any human with NO superpowers or tech can handle navigating in the dark without landmarks, swim for hours without breathing in freezing water, are immune to Nitrogen narcosis or the bends, and has no problem being crushed by literally tons of water. Yep, STILL salty about Ka-Zar. ;p

    Outside of the water, Namor strength varies, but at his strongest, I thing he can trade blows with all the heavy hitters, like Hulk and Thor and Hercules. Which, to me, means Namor, just like the superheroes he's fighting, could win or lose, under the right circumstances.

    I agree that Hulk and Thor both have had an expansion of non-strength powers, that Namor has sadly not enjoyed, and those have come into play in battles. This is why I'm somewhat torn about Namor's new hydrokinesis powers, the first real upgrade we've seen in ... well, decades.



    Quote Originally Posted by Things Fall Apart View Post
    I think in terms of raw strength Thor and Hulk should be stronger, however Namor should be much more agile, and since he's used to moving in fully 3D environment he should be much more unpredictable.

    That said, when you get into that level of strength I'm not sure raw physical power means all that much, so it would mostly be an "any given Sunday" situation if they faced off.
    I agree, with the caveat of being underwater. Especially with the "any given Sunday."



    Quote Originally Posted by Doombot View Post
    I agree that Hulk and Thor should be stronger and Namor should still be able to give them a run for their money due to having unique abilities, but over the years it seems it's far less unpredictable when these characters meet. No one these days really is expecting Namor to come out on top if facing Thor or Hulk. It SHLOUD be a real slugfest, anyone can win, type of encounter, but it doesnt feel that way in the modern age.
    I'm not sure about that, though I think the average fan who isn't familiar with Namor doesn't realize how strong he is. I haven't kept up with Thor's book, but his fans here seem to be repeatedly complaining at how 'easily' he's beaten. Hulk, maybe, but anyone familiar with the long history of Namor and Hulk encounters should know better. Of course, Namor's reputation isn't helped by crap like the AvX VS fight with the Thing or X-Men Red's nonsense with Kid Abomination.



    Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El View Post
    Definitely on the same level of Thor and Hulk. Thor was thought as stronger than Hulk during the silver age but I thought physically perhaps Namor and Thor were almost equal just Thor with Mjolnir and his lightning powers or Odinforce would offset the balance. I've always liked Namor as the pinnacle of physical strength in the Marvel universe, or at least sharing this position with Thor and Hulk. Poor Thor hasn't have much luck lately too, even though I don't follow his adventures as I used to in my youth I've seen fans are not too happy nowadays with the way he is being written.
    Yes, that's the impression I got about modern Thor.

    Of course, in the Golden Age, and I would say, even at the beginning of the Silver Age, Namor was the pinnacle of physical strength. Look at his appearance in Avengers 3 and 4, where Namor's man-handling the entire team, including Thor and Iron Man. Of course, he's also shown having more problems with the Thing in early FF issues, but Thing has also been of a victim of power decreasing, over the decades, as more and more "strongman" characters were established.



    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    My ranking would go; Hulk is the strongest there is (lol) and then Thor and Namor would be on the same level, just like with Hercules. Namor has limits like if he is far from water, or dehydrated, but in water he should be the strongest. ANother advantage Namor has is he moves in three dimensional space in the water, and can attack from any angle while on land he can do that as well: Back and forth on the ground, and up and down in the air. Thor can only fly with his hammer and Hulk can jump but Namor can stay in the air and turn much faster than the others can. I feel he is much more agile than the other two.

    So yeah in water he should be king, (I disliked how the Thing beat him in water a during AVX) on land he comes out just below Hulk with strength.
    I agree.
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  8. #968
    Fantastic Member Doombot's Avatar
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    I do agree about modern Thor, in the sense that after seeing what happened in his books that last handful of years, I'm kinda grateful Namor DOESN'T have his own ongoing. Simply because it seems to be the age of destroying heroes.

  9. #969
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doombot View Post
    I do agree about modern Thor, in the sense that after seeing what happened in his books that last handful of years, I'm kinda grateful Namor DOESN'T have his own ongoing. Simply because it seems to be the age of destroying heroes.
    Marvel didn't even need to give Namor an ongoing to destroy his "heroism." AvX and Secret Wars Namor is the only Namor that some fans are aware of. They don't realize how many times Namor has helped save the world. How well regarded he was by his comrades, even those he fought with. How often he stood between Atlantis and the surface world to prevent wars.
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  10. #970
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    This panel in today's War of Realms explains how Roxxon was on the bad guy's side, Malekith, so I'm just happy to say, Namor was right to kill them. Sorry Avengers. lol

    Uhn huhn.

    Of course, Namor Was Right. I need a shirt with that on it. It's the mantra of the Illuminati.

    If the Agents of Wakanda "deal with Roxxon," then I want to see if we get the usual double standard. Are we going to see Cap and the rest of the Avengers invade Wakanda to rescue Roxxon employees and demand they surrender any of them to American justice? Are they going to call T'challa and the Agents murderers if they kill them?
    Last edited by Reviresco; 04-18-2019 at 11:02 AM.
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  11. #971
    Genesis of A Nemesis Things Fall Apart's Avatar
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    Again. How do people not know that Roxxon is always the bad guy?

    It's like saying, "AIM (Avengers iteration excluded) is just sciencing and might not be up to anything."

    NO! They definitely are up to something, because they are always up to something.

    Who gets a job at EvilCorp and then is like, "If only I knew EvilCorp would be evil!"?
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  12. #972
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doombot View Post
    I'm curious, if you were able to have control of a Sub-Mariner book as an ongoing, what would be the first thing you would do? Say you had at least 3 main story arcs and however many subplots and themes you wished to explore. What would you do, what happens to the world of the Sub-Mariner in your hands?
    Quote Originally Posted by Things Fall Apart View Post
    Sword and Sorcery style epic with hints of Lovecraft.
    This, with some Game of Thrones politics.

    The first thing I would do is get a popular, talented A+++ level artist, who could do some amazingly detailed, lush, underwater scenes and was interested in creating a definitive version of Atlantis and several undersea civilizations. Also who draws a pretty Namor.

    Depending on the artist's speed, I might write fewer pages of the main story to give them more time, and have short back ups of Tales of Atlantis, to clear up that mess.

    I would try to organically incorporate some other MU characters into the storylines. Off the top of my head, Dr. Strange, Emma Frost, Triton (revive him if he's dead) / Inhumans, FF, Doctor Doom, Jim Hammond... maybe some Eternals.

    First Issue: Establish some governing body / advisors (Vashti and could include the cousins) who finally get Namor to agree to a marriage -- if they can find an agreed upon candidate. Short introduction to the other undersea cities and major houses / nobles of Atlantis, and perhaps potential wives. Establish Namor is working with Abira and perhaps the priesthood, and maybe even Dr. Strange, to find a way to protect Atlantis via magical means. Issue ends with an attack on a visiting foreign delegation by the Faceless Ones led by ...

    I'm not sure how it breaks down by arcs, but the first issue would introduce the three main plotlines I'd deal with, while hopefully reinstating or expanding on the world building and cast of the Namor's world. I'd dig out all the introduced artifacts and perhaps introduce a few more from mythology or history, and used them. While there would be political threats like Attuma's barbarians and other undersea cities, the underlying threat would be something more magical and Lovecraftian.
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  13. #973
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Things Fall Apart View Post
    How does Roxxon even function as a company? Meaning how are they still operating? They do the most blatantly illegal ####. Always.
    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiusWrecked View Post
    I don't even know. LOL
    Quote Originally Posted by Things Fall Apart View Post
    Again. How do people not know that Roxxon is always the bad guy?

    It's like saying, "AIM (Avengers iteration excluded) is just sciencing and might not be up to anything."

    NO! They definitely are up to something, because they are always up to something.

    Who gets a job at EvilCorp and then is like, "If only I knew EvilCorp would be evil!"?

    Well, in the real world, corporations get away with plenty of illegal or bad behavior. They get the best of both worlds, in that they attempt to claim rights like a person and then claim they aren't people, so they can't be dealt with like one. They get away with illegal stuff by paying fines, and sacrificing employees, if someone has to go to jail.

    But yes, it didn't exactly make the Avengers look great that they took Roxxon's side against Namor and Atlantis, considering the loooooong history of Roxxon's bad behavior. Like you, I can't think of an encounter with the superheroes that ended up being positive or NOT illegal.
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  14. #974
    Citizen of Atlantis ImperiusWrecked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    This, with some Game of Thrones politics.

    The first thing I would do is get a popular, talented A+++ level artist, who could do some amazingly detailed, lush, underwater scenes and was interested in creating a definitive version of Atlantis and several undersea civilizations. Also who draws a pretty Namor.

    Depending on the artist's speed, I might write fewer pages of the main story to give them more time, and have short back ups of Tales of Atlantis, to clear up that mess.

    I would try to organically incorporate some other MU characters into the storylines. Off the top of my head, Dr. Strange, Emma Frost, Triton (revive him if he's dead) / Inhumans, FF, Doctor Doom, Jim Hammond... maybe some Eternals.

    First Issue: Establish some governing body / advisors (Vashti and could include the cousins) who finally get Namor to agree to a marriage -- if they can find an agreed upon candidate. Short introduction to the other undersea cities and major houses / nobles of Atlantis, and perhaps potential wives. Establish Namor is working with Abira and perhaps the priesthood, and maybe even Dr. Strange, to find a way to protect Atlantis via magical means. Issue ends with an attack on a visiting foreign delegation by the Faceless Ones led by ...

    I'm not sure how it breaks down by arcs, but the first issue would introduce the three main plotlines I'd deal with, while hopefully reinstating or expanding on the world building and cast of the Namor's world. I'd dig out all the introduced artifacts and perhaps introduce a few more from mythology or history, and used them. While there would be political threats like Attuma's barbarians and other undersea cities, the underlying threat would be something more magical and Lovecraftian.
    Game of Thrones politics would work if we get more of a cast, we would know vashti, andromeda, jain, argos, abira, namora and namorita would all be on Namor's side.

    Krang is too obvious for secrecy these days but if Namor had lesser known cousins to come out and be revealed, new atlanteans who could bring out more of the court side of things, it would be very interesting, especially if there are fractions or houses like in GOT, from different parts of the ocean and suddenly they decide to vie for the throne.

    A long forgotten threat perhaps from deep in the ocean? lovecraftian horror creature awaking from slumber? Namora had that Titian in her book that was sleeping and used to exert his control over the atlanteans making them think they were sick and had to stay close by.
    "No one should ever question where my allegiance lies." - Namor of Atlantis

  15. #975
    Boisterously Confused
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    Quote Originally Posted by Things Fall Apart View Post
    How does Roxxon even function as a company? Meaning how are they still operating? They do the most blatantly illegal ####. Always.
    Yeah, that would never happen in real...bzz bzz bzz...wait! "Haliburton" who?

    I hate to say it folks, but Marvel has missed The Sub-Mariner's window. With Aquaman's box office performance, even if they had the rights sewed up, it would be very difficult to launch a Namor project that makes investing in a comics push for him seem worthwhile to TPTB. Unless somebody comes up with a killer pitch, i suspect it will be sometime before Marvel's earliest anti-hero sees another title.

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