Namor the Sub-Mariner Appreciation 2019

[ImperiusWrecked]

I was just coming on to say something similar. Disappointing little of Namor, but Ordway does a lovely old school version, with SPEEDO!

Also, loved the Betty Dean panel and her role.

Have to disagree with Roy / Betty Dean about that last part. I don't see Namor considering himself American at all.

I loved his art!!! I was so glad to see the speedo again and that he chose to use the shell too. Namor has had alot of different belts over the years. I also agree, Namor doesn't see himself as a American at all, but that small Betty Dean cameo in the beginning had me smiling. I only wish we could have gotten panels where Steve, Jim, and Namor were actually interacting as Invaders, I was hoping this would be a team up comic, not a "everyone does their own thing in secret" comic.

[Reviresco]

I loved his art!!! I was so glad to see the speedo again and that he chose to use the shell too. Namor has had alot of different belts over the years. I also agree, Namor doesn't see himself as a American at all, but that small Betty Dean cameo in the beginning had me smiling. I only wish we could have gotten panels where Steve, Jim, and Namor were actually interacting as Invaders, I was hoping this would be a team up comic, not a "everyone does their own thing in secret" comic.

Yes, as I mentioned in the Invaders thread, the title isn't exactly true. This appears to take place before the Invaders are even formed.

[616MarvelYear is LeapYear]

Uncanny X-Men #6 Jul 1964
"Sub-Mariner Joins the Evil Mutants!"
Professor Xavier reads a newspaper article about the Sub-Mariner. He wonders whether or not the Sub-Mariner is a mutant.
Meanwhile Magneto and his Brotherhood of Evil Mutants are at their new headquarters on an island, pondering the same thing.
Magneto tries to recruit the Sub-Mariner by projecting his astral form under the ocean.
Professor Xavier does the same thing from the mansion, but hides his astral form when he senses Magneto's astral form nearby.

Magneto finds Namor's underwater kingdom, but decides not to approach the Sub-Mariner following an outburst that he witnesses.

Instead, Magneto approaches one of the other Atlanteans and makes a deal.
In exchange for delivering a message from him, Magneto claims that the Atlantean can
become the new ruler of Atlantis, if the Sub-Mariner joins the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants.

Back at the mansion, Professor Xavier informs his students that Magneto is attempting to recruit Namor,
and that he knows where Magneto's new base is located. The X-Men board a ship and head out to stop Magneto.
Namor is convinced into meeting with Magneto on his secret island.
He is quickly impressed by how the island is run using Magneto's powers and a giant magnet at the center of the island.
The X-Men arrive and a battle begins amongst the two groups.
Magneto destroys the X-Men's ship, but they use an ice-craft to make it to shore.
Cyclops realizes that the giant magnet powers everything, so he tries to destroy it, but Quicksilver attacks before he can do anything.
The X-Men subdue Quicksilver, which causes the Scarlet Witch to fear for her brother's safety.
Magneto becomes angered with the Scarlet Witch and yells at her. At this point, both Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch
again question Magneto's actions, as in X-Men #5, but continue to follow him.
Xavier mentions this may be because they are being controlled subconsciously.

The Sub-Mariner realizes what type of man he has allied himself with, so he turns against Magneto and destroys the magnet's controls.
The X-Men break into the lab, so Magneto, Toad and Mastermind run away.
The Scarlet Witch demands that Quicksilver be returned to her, but the X-Men do not comply.

A short battle breaks out that is stopped by Professor Xavier, when he brings Quicksilver, under his mental control, to the Scarlet Witch.

Namor decides that he has had enough of fighting for the day, so he starts to head back to his kingdom
when he is attacked by Magneto and his giant magnet. The Sub-Mariner overcomes the beating he is taking and destroys the magnet.

The X-Men watch as the Sub-Mariner withdraws back to his kingdom, then observe Magneto and the rest of the Brotherhood retreat in his own jet plane.

Script by Stan Lee, pencils by Jack Kirby, inks by Chic Stone

[Thor-El]

Yes, as I mentioned in the Invaders thread, the title isn't exactly true. This appears to take place before the Invaders are even formed.

From what I've seen from your comments it seems this is a comic where Namor does appears briefly, I mean it is even titled Captain America & the Invaders. I still have to pick it up at my LCBS but my interest has really diminished. Makes me so mad that at the 80 year celebration of Marvel Comics still everything goes to Captain America when it should be Namor and the Human Torch getting the spotlight, mostly Namor really for being the one that started it all and kept being such an iconic hero through the silver age.

Thanks for Funko with those two Funko Pops. they really got the 80 years celebration right.

[Reviresco]

From what I've seen from your comments it seems this is a comic where Namor does appears briefly, I mean it is even titled Captain America & the Invaders. I still have to pick it up at my LCBS but my interest has really diminished. Makes me so mad that at the 80 year celebration of Marvel Comics still everything goes to Captain America when it should be Namor and the Human Torch getting the spotlight, mostly Namor really for being the one that started it all and kept being such an iconic hero through the silver age.

Thanks for Funko with those two Funko Pops. they really got the 80 years celebration right.

If you like old school books and Cap or Jim Hammond, I'd pick it up -- it was a solid Roy Thomas tale. If your chief interest is Namor, then you'll be disappointed.

I am really sad that we haven't gotten the Namor ongoing, but we have gotten a few goodies out this anniversary. I can't wait for the Bill Everett omnibus. And the John Byrne and Jae Lee one too.

[Reviresco]

[CENTER]Uncanny X-Men #6 Jul 1964
"Sub-Mariner Joins the Evil Mutants!"

Thanks for posting this! It's a fun book. I love how Namor is tossing around statues causes he's annoyed. Those poor Atlantean decorators.

[Doombot]

How do you guys feel about the ever changing look of the Atlanteans in the classic series? The early books couldn't seem to decide whether or not to go with the large black eyed, more fish like appearance or the standard human look like Dorma. Everett himself came back for those late issue arcs and changed characters like Byrrah back into a Golden Age look of green skin and huge eyes.

[Thor-El]

How do you guys feel about the ever changing look of the Atlanteans in the classic series? The early books couldn't seem to decide whether or not to go with the large black eyed, more fish like appearance or the standard human look like Dorma. Everett himself came back for those late issue arcs and changed characters like Byrrah back into a Golden Age look of green skin and huge eyes.

I love Everett and his Golden Age designs are really great but I prefer the more human look of the silver age.

[ImperiusWrecked]

How do you guys feel about the ever changing look of the Atlanteans in the classic series? The early books couldn't seem to decide whether or not to go with the large black eyed, more fish like appearance or the standard human look like Dorma. Everett himself came back for those late issue arcs and changed characters like Byrrah back into a Golden Age look of green skin and huge eyes.

I think Everett was really trying to make the Atlanteans look as alien to humans as possible while making them fit in their environment, but the females often look just human with too large eyes. I like it when the modern comics try to make the Atlanteans seem more fishlike, with gills, and webbed hands, sharp teeth etc. because it's far more interesting to see them have evolved to become the dominant ocean species. I am not a huge fan of how the older comics make them look, there was one comic where like looked like toads too I think. I really like how Kirby managed to finally cement the specifics of the Atlantean look with the permanently blue skin, but I just wish that other writers/artists would remember that Atlanteans have gills all the time and not just when they need to point it out for some reason.

[Doombot]

You want to see gills on the characters? Like on their necks or behind their ears or wherever, I forget exactly where they are lol

[ImperiusWrecked]

You want to see gills on the characters? Like on their necks or behind their ears or wherever, I forget exactly where they are lol

lol, On their necks, just below and kinda behind their ears. I want to see them because it's one of the few things that differentiate Marvel's Atlanteans and DC's Atlanteans other than the blue skin and pointed ears. It makes sense for them to have them. They come and go according to the artist or writer, but its a major plot point that Namor's gills were shut in the 1698 Sub-Mariner series.

From Prince Namor, The Sub-Mariner (1968) #18



However while most artists, like Bryne, draw a few thin lines for gills I really like this deception from Uncanny X-Men (2012) #10 (pencil art by Carlos Pacheco & Paco Daiz)



John Bryne:



Although I usually ignore the Young Namor comic's plot, I really did like the art alot and they featured the gills there as well.

[Doombot]

I actually do remember those images now that you've posted them. I've never been a fan of gills like that myself. For one they just look silly (reminds me also of the dreadful film Waterworld) and secondly they just don't make sense to me. I know it's comicbook fantasy, but these aren't literal fish people, despite all the jokes at their expense, the anatomy just doesn't work for me. Namor can breath in both elements and the Atlanteans can also talk underwater, it would make more sense if the gills were somehow inside their throats or above their lungs (or the Atlantean equivalent)

[ImperiusWrecked]

I actually do remember those images now that you've posted them. I've never been a fan of gills like that myself. For one they just look silly (reminds me also of the dreadful film Waterworld) and secondly they just don't make sense to me. I know it's comicbook fantasy, but these aren't literal fish people, despite all the jokes at their expense, the anatomy just doesn't work for me. Namor can breath in both elements and the Atlanteans can also talk underwater, it would make more sense if the gills were somehow inside their throats or above their lungs (or the Atlantean equivalent)

I don't think they look silly, no more than Namor's wings look silly. I haven't seen that movie, but I might look it up. When Namorita changed into Kymaera her look became more Atlantean with the blue skin and what's more she had more fish like features, the eyes, the fins on the backs of her legs and her webbed hands, true this was bc of her dna having been spliced with others, but even in normal born Atlanteans we still see more dramatic mutations, like the fish boy whose parents fought over before Namor took him as a ward during the dark xmen arc/cabal so gills are not so much of a stretch in my opinion and actually makes sense bc Atlanteans are not humans, they have become their own species. Also gills, they are markers of how different Atlanteans are from humans, and in the 2007 submariner comic gills were used to identify an undercover atlantean.

I honestly have a theory, that the Atlanteans don't have human lungs, their insides are more like that of a fish or shark, they use their magic and science to grow lungs (or 2nd theory is they do have them and to increase their dormant human lungs to full size they use magic/science, but essentially the full blooded atlanteans human lungs have become something like an appendix, an obsolete organ) to be able to move about on land, but Namor was born with fully functioning human lungs and gills so he can easily switch between both, like having two systems within his body.

[Doombot]

Many people do find Namor's wings silly, those people are wrong, but still.

Sure, I understand the Atlanteans are not humans, but in the very recent past they were, and depending on your definition of speciation they may actually only be a subspecies as they can still mate and have offspring with humans. Primates who somehow developed the ability to breath under water would never develop fish gills. Many species of mammal have returned to marine life and none evolved gills. Again, I understand it's just fantasy comic book stuff, so I'm not overly hung up on it. I don't lose any sleep over whether or not Marvel has them with gills lol, but it's always fun to think about this stuff.

My own ideas about their origins is that they were being developed by the Atlanteans in the years leading up to the cataclysm. Some cult or elites were able to foresee the disaster ending their world, either through prophesy or direct communication with Neptune. With their advanced technology and sorcery they would have developed a program that was designed specifically to learn how to live in the sea and breath under water. There may have been a small population in the years before the cataclysm that were already semi or fully aquatic. (It helps that Atlantis is an island continent and supposedly had large saltwater rivers dividing the island and could have had other motives for developing the ability) There's a good story there to be told about those years if they could only get someone at Marvel to do it.

[ImperiusWrecked]

So little is told about what happened before the Great Cataclysm and there is definitely a story worth chasing there if Marvel would just be open to letting someone take the reigns. I think in Incredible Hulk there was that one story told about how the magicians used their talents to turn the people into water breathers, but I don't much like that version because its too similar to how in DC's Atlanteans the sorcerers used magic to turn people into water breathers. I think I always liked Man - Thing (1997) #7-8 alot because they give a glimpse into the golden age of atlantis.