Namor the Sub-Mariner Appreciation 2019

[Thor-El]

This isnt the same Hyperion, this one has been created by Mephisto as part of a deal with Coulson

Hyperion is really the perfect Namor arch villain. But its really lame when they try to make it Superman in the Marvel Universe. He was created to be a villain since the beginning and Namor was created to be Superman competition in the Timely Comics universe of the Golden Age. Namor would do pretty great during the Golden Age getting more stories published than any of the other two leading heroes at Timely: Captain America and the Human Torch.

The lamest Hyperion has ever been was in the Squadron Supreme series were he totally destroyed Atlantis and decapitated Namor just to feel remorse later and help resurrect Namor and rebuild Atlantis and very uncharasteristic from Namor both became good pals by the end of the series. By those first actions Hyperion should have became the worst enemy Namor had ever faced and both become sworn enemies, that would have made Hyperion a bad ass villain and a great rogue for Namor, and Namor get resurrected independently of Hyperion and go on a hunting and revenge quest against Hyperion which would have been great!

[Oberon]

The reality is that Atlanteans ancient or not so, used cloning techniques, another thing that makes me wonder about their connections (again, ancient or not so) with Inhumans or Eternals/Deviants, in regard to such technologies.

Thus, it should be done, somehow, in tandem with a spiritual recovery of Dorma's soul, somehow.

If they did that, I'd never whine about Namor and Sue again - - promise.

[Thor-El]

The reality is that Atlanteans ancient or not so, used cloning techniques, another thing that makes me wonder about their connections (again, ancient or not so) with Inhumans or Eternals/Deviants, in regard to such technologies.

Thus, it should be done, somehow, in tandem with a spiritual recovery of Dorma's soul, somehow.

That's how Namor's resurrection should have gone. Something like that was the perfect way to resurrect Dorma and Vashti and have them bring back Namor after his death at the hands of the Squadron. A show of force for the Atlanteans at the end against the Squadron. But Marvel was just happy to hype Hyperion until the end, pun intended.

If they did that, I'd never whine about Namor and Sue again - - promise.

Hurry up Marvel and resurrect Dorma, please!!!

[Doombot]

Dorma needs to stay dead, it adds to Namor's character. All the constant resurrections at Marvel are a bad thing, not a good thing. Namor needs NEW characters, not dredging up ones that have been dead for 40 years. Make Namor's world bigger not smaller.

[ImperiusWrecked]

The reality is that Atlanteans ancient or not so, used cloning techniques, another thing that makes me wonder about their connections (again, ancient or not so) with Inhumans or Eternals/Deviants, in regard to such technologies.

Thus, it should be done, somehow, in tandem with a spiritual recovery of Dorma's soul, somehow.

If they did that, I'd never whine about Namor and Sue again - - promise.

I'm a bit peeved that Marvel is hinting that Franklin is Namor's son in FF GD, which isn't 616 so why do this? This is why I'm tired of the constant Namor/Sue stuff it's never about Namor, it's always about Sue/Reed and Namor is the homewrecker.

So yes, bring back Dorma!

Dorma needs to stay dead, it adds to Namor's character. All the constant resurrections at Marvel are a bad thing, not a good thing. Namor needs NEW characters, not dredging up ones that have been dead for 40 years. Make Namor's world bigger not smaller.

Imo it doesn't really add anything to Namor's character, it was just a way to not commit to Namor being with a long term relationship and it limited Marvel from using Namor for problems with Reed/Sue. It was used for Namor's angst/sorrow and that was it. If we had her back and added new characters then it could work. If there was some issues with them getting back together, let them build up the romance/get together by not having them jump back at being together. Either way, any new love interest won't stick around for long, they never do. Marrina was the only one who was around for some time, not even Abira got out of the limited series she was in. So Dorma has longevity and a higher chance of being kept around for at least a few years. This is less about resurrections, because we all know Marvel kills off a character and brings them back in a few issues if they wanted to, and more about world building. Who is Dorma? Out side of royalty and being in love with Namor. If we had someone actually expand her character, and make her indispensable to Namor like Sue is to Reed then we have even more of a chance of Namor and her sticking together.

Hi Everyone...... has anyone seen these mini Funko Pop figures? I saw a box of them available at BigBadToyStore's website. I want that little Namor and the Doom! These mystery packs are sold separately a lot of times too. I didn't know you could buy a whole box but I guess there is no guarantee they are all unique

I really want the Doom and Namor ones, I will have to check them out bc iirc weren't they supposed to be sold at target?

[Iron Maiden]

I'm a bit peeved that Marvel is hinting that Franklin is Namor's son in FF GD, which isn't 616 so why do this? This is why I'm tired of the constant Namor/Sue stuff it's never about Namor, it's always about Sue/Reed and Namor is the homewrecker.

So yes, bring back Dorma!



Imo it doesn't really add anything to Namor's character, it was just a way to not commit to Namor being with a long term relationship and it limited Marvel from using Namor for problems with Reed/Sue. It was used for Namor's angst/sorrow and that was it. If we had her back and added new characters then it could work. If there was some issues with them getting back together, let them build up the romance/get together by not having them jump back at being together. Either way, any new love interest won't stick around for long, they never do. Marrina was the only one who was around for some time, not even Abira got out of the limited series she was in. So Dorma has longevity and a higher chance of being kept around for at least a few years. This is less about ressuractions, because we all know Marvel kills off a character and brings them back in a few issues if they wanted to, and more about world building. Who is Dorma? Out side of royalty and being in love with Namor. If we had someone actually expand her character, and make her indefensible to Namor like Sue is to Reed then we have even more of a chance of Namor and her sticking together.



I really want the Doom and Namor ones, I will have to check them out bc iirc weren't they supposed to be sold at target?

I haven't seen any but then I've been staying away from some stores until the mad shoppers are gone. I might check out Barnes and Nobles. They have a toy section at the one in my area since they removed the DVD section. Everyone livestreams etc. so that was a wise choice.

[Doombot]

Imo it doesn't really add anything to Namor's character, it was just a way to not commit to Namor being with a long term relationship and it limited Marvel from using Namor for problems with Reed/Sue. It was used for Namor's angst/sorrow and that was it. If we had her back and added new characters then it could work. If there was some issues with them getting back together, let them build up the romance/get together by not having them jump back at being together. Either way, any new love interest won't stick around for long, they never do. Marrina was the only one who was around for some time, not even Abira got out of the limited series she was in. So Dorma has longevity and a higher chance of being kept around for at least a few years. This is less about resurrections, because we all know Marvel kills off a character and brings them back in a few issues if they wanted to, and more about world building. Who is Dorma? Out side of royalty and being in love with Namor. If we had someone actually expand her character, and make her indispensable to Namor like Sue is to Reed then we have even more of a chance of Namor and her sticking together.

So you essentially want her resurrected because of name recognition. As you say, there was really not much to her character to begin with, and the reason she's still remembered is because she was killed off in a shocking way. That's it. She needs to stay dead and Namor needs new characters in his world. Dorma is more interesting as a ghost that haunts Namor than she ever was as an actual character. All the work of having to build and expand her character would have to be done with a new character anyway, so why dig her up? Just to have another resurrected character with a recognizable name.

[ImperiusWrecked]

So you essentially want her resurrected because of name recognition. As you say, there was really not much to her character to begin with, and the reason she's still remembered is because she was killed off in a shocking way. That's it. She needs to stay dead and Namor needs new characters in his world. Dorma is more interesting as a ghost that haunts Namor than she ever was as an actual character. All the work of having to build and expand her character would have to be done with a new character anyway, so why dig her up? Just to have another resurrected character with a recognizable name.

I didn't say she was just because of a name, Dorma is one of the most oldest female characters in Marvel/Timely since she was right there in the first issue of Marvel Comics #1. She is a strong and passionate woman who has come to save Namor many times, even raising an army to go to war with the surface for him, she loves Namor and loves Atlantis. She has risked her life and ended up giving her life for Namor. Her jealousy is one of her downsides, however she has a good heart and with some more writing to explain who she is outside of Namor we can have her as a Mera type character who goes off on her own adventures. Any new character introduced is going to need build up and backstory so why not give Dorma a chance?

The whole "Namor is sad because she is dead" had been done for so many years, but imagine him having to deal with her living again? It would be interesting to see. Especially if Dorma isn't interested in getting married right away, have her be angry at her death, have her want to hunt down Llyra, explain who her family is, what are the social structures of the Atlantean court etc. Have flashbacks to her and Namor's childhood adventures. There's so much one can do with Dorma but as always this all ties back to world building. If they just bring back Dorma as a love interest without building up and upgrading her character from the 70s then of course it won't work.

Of course if we did have a new love interest then I would put my offer forward for Andromeda, the daughter of Namor's greatest enemy who is also a person he trusts with the security of Atlantis would be a great partner for him if written well.

Namor needs a base of characters who support him, and all of them with the exception of Andromeda popping up now and then, are dead or gone, yes add more characters but also have some old ones too.

[Reviresco]

Beautiful Dorma needs to come back in a huge way, if Gwen Stacy and Jean Grey can return and be such a force in the new Marvel why can't Dorma.

I love this image! So retro.

Of course, I agree with you on Lady Dorma. She's was great, especially in the Silver Age, when she had a temper to match Namor's and didn't hesitate to let him (or her rivals) have it. And everything was DRAMA with her. No wonder she and Namor were a pair. Of course, Roy Thomas wrote her as more ... subtle and supportive of Namor, but man, Stan Lee's Dorma took no prisoners.

Totally agree. Always thought the Lady Dorma had great potential.

Yes, indeed. Especially if we had a Namor solo where she could be developed.

Dorma should be brought back, seriously she is one of the OG women of Marvel back when it was timely and I really would love to see her become a powerhouse in Atlantean politics and stories again. Whatever happened to her au version? I recall reading her in some FF comics a long while back.

Again, agreed. Marvel's oldest female character, I believe. We definitely need her back.

If you are referring to her Heroes Reborn version, she's dead. I posted it here several months back, here's the ref:

This still makes me sad. Again, a waste of potential, for an AU storyline that doesn't even count.

The reality is that Atlanteans ancient or not so, used cloning techniques, another thing that makes me wonder about their connections (again, ancient or not so) with Inhumans or Eternals/Deviants, in regard to such technologies.

Thus, it should be done, somehow, in tandem with a spiritual recovery of Dorma's soul, somehow.

If they did that, I'd never whine about Namor and Sue again - - promise.

I LOVE that idea! And entirely correct. After all, we already have had clones of Dorma, but they were soulless, allegedly. Which makes one wonder, why is it that Atlanteans KNOW that, and yet with all these other Marvel clones, it seems to be up for debate?

Let's remember, though, that the Atlanteans also used magic in resurrections, as well as a promptly placed godcall to Poseidon. There's lots of possibilities here to pursue.

That's how Namor's resurrection should have gone. Something like that was the perfect way to resurrect Dorma and Vashti and have them bring back Namor after his death at the hands of the Squadron. A show of force for the Atlanteans at the end against the Squadron. But Marvel was just happy to hype Hyperion until the end, pun intended.



Hurry up Marvel and resurrect Dorma, please!!!

If only Marvel would listen to us.

Ugh. Don't get me started on that horrible Squadron Supreme fiasco. I'm still not accepting Vashti is dead. Didn't happen on panel. Though, I've no idea WHERE the heck he has been the last 15 to 20 years.

[Oberon]

Previously, Thor-El said : Hurry up Marvel and resurrect Dorma, please!!!

You devil!

[Oberon]

While there have been a lot of resurrections, they're not really what we're talking about with cloning. Cloning would be a recreation actually. Once you put her proper soul back, that does make it more of a Rez, but it still comes off as more science-based, especially if we avoid supernatural means to reimplant the soul. Certainly there must be some Forbidden Science of the Atlanteans too?

[Thor-El]

I didn't say she was just because of a name, Dorma is one of the most oldest female characters in Marvel/Timely since she was right there in the first issue of Marvel Comics #1. She is a strong and passionate woman who has come to save Namor many times, even raising an army to go to war with the surface for him, she loves Namor and loves Atlantis. She has risked her life and ended up giving her life for Namor. Her jealousy is one of her downsides, however she has a good heart and with some more writing to explain who she is outside of Namor we can have her as a Mera type character who goes off on her own adventures. Any new character introduced is going to need build up and backstory so why not give Dorma a chance?

The whole "Namor is sad because she is dead" had been done for so many years, but imagine him having to deal with her living again? It would be interesting to see. Especially if Dorma isn't interested in getting married right away, have her be angry at her death, have her want to hunt down Llyra, explain who her family is, what are the social structures of the Atlantean court etc. Have flashbacks to her and Namor's childhood adventures. There's so much one can do with Dorma but as always this all ties back to world building. If they just bring back Dorma as a love interest without building up and upgrading her character from the 70s then of course it won't work.

Of course if we did have a new love interest then I would put my offer forward for Andromeda, the daughter of Namor's greatest enemy who is also a person he trusts with the security of Atlantis would be a great partner for him if written well.

Namor needs a base of characters who support him, and all of them with the exception of Andromeda popping up now and then, are dead or gone, yes add more characters but also have some old ones too.

Thank you IM, couldnt have said it better, and love the ideas you expose for after resurrection conflict. I think in comics theres nothing more exciting than seeing an important character in the mythology like Dorma returning and the fresh take of modern writers on them, look what Aaron has done with Jane Foster for example and how her popularity has soared!

[Doombot]

I didn't say she was just because of a name, Dorma is one of the most oldest female characters in Marvel/Timely since she was right there in the first issue of Marvel Comics #1. She is a strong and passionate woman who has come to save Namor many times, even raising an army to go to war with the surface for him, she loves Namor and loves Atlantis. She has risked her life and ended up giving her life for Namor. Her jealousy is one of her downsides, however she has a good heart and with some more writing to explain who she is outside of Namor we can have her as a Mera type character who goes off on her own adventures. Any new character introduced is going to need build up and backstory so why not give Dorma a chance?

The whole "Namor is sad because she is dead" had been done for so many years, but imagine him having to deal with her living again? It would be interesting to see. Especially if Dorma isn't interested in getting married right away, have her be angry at her death, have her want to hunt down Llyra, explain who her family is, what are the social structures of the Atlantean court etc. Have flashbacks to her and Namor's childhood adventures. There's so much one can do with Dorma but as always this all ties back to world building. If they just bring back Dorma as a love interest without building up and upgrading her character from the 70s then of course it won't work.

Of course if we did have a new love interest then I would put my offer forward for Andromeda, the daughter of Namor's greatest enemy who is also a person he trusts with the security of Atlantis would be a great partner for him if written well.

Namor needs a base of characters who support him, and all of them with the exception of Andromeda popping up now and then, are dead or gone, yes add more characters but also have some old ones too.

If anyone were to look through my posts in this thread they would see that world building is one of the biggest things I harp on, but bringing back a character that's been dead 40 years isn't the way. Fen was resurrected, Namora was resurrected, Namorita was resurrected, Attuma was resurrected, Namor has been resurrected multiple times, I can't remember if TigerShark has been killed off, but bringing back Dorma too, for little more than nostalgia is not worth it in my opinion and adds nothing for Namor or Atlantis.

I think Dorma and Dorcas have been the only ones that stayed dead.

[Reviresco]

While there have been a lot of resurrections, they're not really what we're talking about with cloning. Cloning would be a recreation actually. Once you put her proper soul back, that does make it more of a Rez, but it still comes off as more science-based, especially if we avoid supernatural means to reimplant the soul. Certainly there must be some Forbidden Science of the Atlanteans too?

I'm sure there's plenty of Forbidden Atlantean Sciences ... actually, cloning is one of them.

What I meant, however, is that Marvel has several clones, like X-23, one of the Spider-Men, Madeline Pryor, etc. And most of the time, the question of a soul doesn't even occur. And then there's all that stuff going on in Krakoa now.

AFAIK only in Atlantis is it stated that the clones are "soulless."

[ImperiusWrecked]

Thank you IM, couldnt have said it better, and love the ideas you expose for after resurrection conflict. I think in comics theres nothing more exciting than seeing an important character in the mythology like Dorma returning and the fresh take of modern writers on them, look what Aaron has done with Jane Foster for example and how her popularity has soared!

You're welcome, it really just ties back to character building, without it then most characters don't have a chance to grow. I'm more than open for new characters to bring some fresh blood into the sub-mariner cast but also there were so many older characters who could be a good part of it with some polishing up to bring them to modern readers.