The Pleasure's All Yours: Monet St. Croix Appreciation 2019

[Silver Fang]

She hasn't been as prominent since, either. To a lot of people, lapsed fans and otherwise, the key story points about Monet are her family, Penance and Emplate. I just find it's a natural progression, YMMV.

She was heavily prominent in X-Factor from 2006 -2012. That's where most modern fans know her from really. And Penance wasn't a thing, outside of that therapy session.

In 2013, she was apart of Storm's all-female X-squad in X-Men vol 4. Then while not as high profile as it's predecessors, she was a main character in Uncanny X-Men 2015.

While not an A-list character, she's a pretty solid B and has not had a connection to Penance since around Generation X #57 in the 90's.

[Havok83]

She hasn't been as prominent since, either. To a lot of people, lapsed fans and otherwise, the key story points about Monet are her family, Penance and Emplate. I just find it's a natural progression, YMMV.

Id argue she's been far more prominent since then. Gen X was a teenage spinoff book and Monet has since graduated to the big leagues, appearing as an X-man in several runs and Penance has not been a part of her stories there

She was heavily prominent in X-Factor from 2006 -2012. That's where most modern fans know her from really. And Penance wasn't a thing, outside of that therapy session.

In 2013, she was apart of Storm's all-female X-squad in X-Men vol 4. Then while not as high profile as it's predecessors, she was a main character in Uncanny X-Men 2015.

While not an A-list character, she's a pretty solid B and has not had a connection to Penance since Generation X #50.

Thank you! Gen X is where she got her start but she's been fairly prominent in the X-world far past that. Any new readers from the past 13 or so years dont have the Penance frame of refernce unless they've gone back to back issues. To be honest, I rarely think of or reference Penance myself and count M-twins as her backstory even though I know they were technically different characters

[powerpax]

She was heavily prominent in X-Factor from 2006 -2012. That's where most modern fans know her from really.

Nah, I think the source material is always key. PAD's X-Factor was a beloved but ancillary cult book which struggled with readership its entire run.

And again, it's not always about what is most recent but what is most popular with the general public. I know Monet had core runs in the last decade, and I'm glad for her. But the issue is that readership for the entire franchise was sinking throughout those years and people had just plain gone away. The Inhumans stuff, the endless relaunches - only the hardcore audience was still there. So for a lot of people, when they think M they first think Gen X and all that stuff. JMO. Even the (bad IMO) Uncanny book leaned on Emplate for her storyline.

[Havok83]

Nah, I think the source material is always key. PAD's X-Factor was a beloved but ancillary cult book which struggled with readership its entire run.

And again, it's not always about what is most recent but what is most popular with the general public. I know Monet had core runs in the last decade, and I'm glad for her. But the issue is that readership for the entire franchise was sinking throughout those years and people had just plain gone away. The Inhumans stuff, the endless relaunches - only the hardcore audience was still there. So for a lot of people, when they think M they first think Gen X and all that stuff. JMO. Even the (bad IMO) Uncanny book leaned on Emplate for her storyline.

I think you are overestimating Monet's familiarity to the general public. Outside of Jubilee, I dont think any of those kids really are too well known from that run and the bulk of people that do know her are from her various appearances here and there over the recent years. I wouldnt be surprised if alot of people dont even know she originated as Penance nor that whole backstory with the switcheroo and her twins

[powerpax]

I think you are overestimating Monet's familiarity to the general public.

I think that's my whole point, though. If the general public knows Monet they know her from Gen X, from when they were younger and/or when a lot more people were reading. Much fewer have read across the 2000s-2010s. Same as most people know Jubilee from the cartoon, the old days in the main books or some Gen X vs. her vampire years or Brian Wood or whatever. I'm willing to bet the average person doesn't know she got involved with Sabretooth (of all people!) or fucked Jamie Madrox.

[Silver Fang]

I think that's my whole point, though. If the general public knows Monet they know her from Gen X, from when they were younger and/or when a lot more people were reading. Much fewer have read across the 2000s-2010s. Same as most people know Jubilee from the cartoon, the old days in the main books or some Gen X vs. her vampire years or Brian Wood or whatever. I'm willing to bet the average person doesn't know she got involved with Sabretooth (of all people!) or fucked Jamie Madrox.

Aside from hardcore fans who read back issues, or fans who grew up on old stuff, most fans these days seem more familiar with the early 2000's stuff than anything proceeding it.

Some people have read Uncanny, and asked why Monet looked black. lol goes to show they haven't read GenX. I have seen a good few on twitter asking about her Penance form because she didn't do anything like that in X-Factor.

When she showed up in Weapon X, there were people who didn't know who she was, and why she was shipped with Creed, which will cause others to answer that they were (possibly) together in Uncanny a few years back. The average person will know her from recent things here & there where she is among other bigger names. I have seen some list Uncanny or X-Factor for recent major appearance before I hear Generation X.

Monet isn't the most well known to the general public, but if she is, people usually got introduced to her here she starred among other more well known characters. Madrox was never a big thing. But many know of her x Strong Guy. And while controversial on this site, she x Creed have a decent cult following on twitter & tumblr, so the average casual may know about her x Sabretooth before they do her x Synch. Same with Strong Guy, who is a bigger name than Synch and someone Monet has shared a book with more recently than Synch.

Even with bigger named characters it happens.Mystique is a solid A-lister, and the average fan probably doesn't know about her x Destiny since the latter has been dead for over 20 years. People familiar with her in recent years will know her as always being coupled with Sabretooth (ugh lol).

[Havok83]

Aside from hardcore fans who read back issues, or fans who grew up on old stuff, most fans these days seem more familiar with the early 2000's stuff than anything proceeding it.

Some people have read Uncanny, and asked why Monet looked black. lol goes to show they haven't read GenX. I have seen a good few on twitter asking about her Penance form because she didn't do anything like that in X-Factor.

When she showed up in Weapon X, there were people who didn't know who she was, and why she was shipped with Creed, which will cause others to answer that they were (possibly) together in Uncanny a few years back. The average person will know her from recent things here & there where she is among other bigger names. I have seen some list Bunn's Uncanny or X-Factor for recent major appearance before I hear people say Generation X.

Monet isn't the most well known to the general public, but if she is, people usually got introduced to her through X-Factor where she starred among other more well known characters. Madrox was never a big thing. But many know she had relations with Darwin or liked her with Strong Guy. And while controversial on this site, she x Creed have a decent cult following on twitter & tumblr, so the average casual may know about her x Sabretooth before they do her x Synch.

Even with bigger named characters it happens.Mystique is a solid A-lister, and the average fan probably doesn't know about her x Destiny since the latter has been dead for over 20 years. People familiar with her in recent years will know her as always being coupled with Sabretooth (ugh lol).

You bring up good points. I remember a few years back my cousin was confused to why Rogue was flying. I put my palm on my head but understood that she had gone a long stretch where she didnt have her Ms. Marvel powers and the classic 90s version isnt what he grew up on. And this was Rogue a very popular A-lister. I wouldnt be surprised if he had no clue whom M was and definitely not Penance

[Silver Fang]

You bring up good points. I remember a few years back my cousin was confused to why Rogue was flying. I put my palm on my head but understood that she had gone a long stretch where she didnt have her Ms. Marvel powers and the classic 90s version isnt what he grew up on. And this was Rogue a very popular A-lister. I wouldnt be surprised if he had no clue whom M was and definitely not Penance

Agreed. I LOVED GenX and the overall story makes me think of my childhood. Good memories. But a book about a batch of new teenage mutants with only Emma & Banshee as their biggest names may not be well known today. Like complaints in the Emma thread, some think her tenure with the X-Men started with Morrison. lol

Meanwhile if the GenX cast is in a book among bigger characters, that's where they'll be seen more.

• X-Men vol 4 she was paired with Psylocke and Storm, two very big A-list X-names. Jubilee also. The series also had Wolverine and numerous other A-list characters.
• X-Factor was on the fence, but a lot of the characters seemed big enough for many to be more familiar with, especially Siryn.
• Bunn's Uncanny had Magneto, Psylocke, Mystique, and Sabretooth. All bigger named X-characters that were in various cartoons. Monet was the most new & unknown among them but getting her exposure.

Though he's not high-ranking by my own standards, or the X-Office for that matter lol, Sabretooth is an iconic X-character -even if it's only for Wolverine's sake. Even Creed has fans who may pick up an X-book for him, especially with the inversion & wondering where it was gonna go (sadly nowhere lol). So again, since it was the most recent thing in 2 books with a bigger named character who would be more well known.

Stuff that mostly fell off the radar in GenX I wager is not well known. Synch & Penance, both major things connected with Monet that have not come up in 20 years.

[powerpax]

Aside from hardcore fans who read back issues, or fans who grew up on old stuff, most fans these days seem more familiar with the early 2000's stuff than anything proceeding it.

Maybe some, yes. But my point is that there's been less and less new comics fans in the last decade-plus than there were at the X-Men's commercial height (the 90s). Hence, less people (some of whom are back for HoX) who know the latter-day Monet. And I don't think most casual fans could distinguish between Bunn's short-lived Uncanny or the last Uncanny or Wood's short-lived run (or any number of others) if you put a gun to their head. After a certain point the relaunches, short runs and stasis became monotonous and a lot of folks stopped reading. That's just my take. YMMV.

Even with bigger named characters it happens.Mystique is a solid A-lister, and the average fan probably doesn't know about her x Destiny since the latter has been dead for over 20 years. People familiar with her in recent years will know her as always being coupled with Sabretooth (ugh lol).

Ah, but that's different too: Mystique and Creed's connection came about in the '90s.

[Silver Fang]

Ah, but that's different too: Mystique and Creed's connection came about in the '90s.

And yet tons of X-fans still don't know they had a son together. Creed x Mystique hated each other in the 90's. He's almost killed her on 3 occasions, and she found him repulsive. That relationship was enemies, who worked together once for a common goal of revenge. And they were indifferent to each other after X-Factor.

But that is not common knowledge since it was retconned by Jason Aaron to be some kind of romance. Then Bendis got hold of them, and changed the dynamic again where Creed was in love with Mystique & worked as her henchman. Then along came Remender, who was so determined to push this ship that he retconned their first meeting in AXIS.

But casuals don't know all that. Far as they know, Mystique & Creed are the villain couple of the X-Men. But that was not their established dynamic in the 90's.

That's how things go. What's most recent will take over and become the default, and soon old stuff gets phased out because few are gonna do research back that far. Monet is the same way. A reason why she's white so much these days. X-Factor popularized her as a white woman, and now she's known as a (retconned) white Muslim before she is a black woman like GenX.

[powerpax]

The dynamic in the 90s was they were villains who had sired a human son together. That's it. I really don't believe a lot of people know much about their latter stories together since. I certainly had no idea before now that they were seen a serious romance at any given point and I still don't see them as such. Hickman also has not presented them as that in their brief appearance together in HoX - Creed and Mystique have worked together many times.

Like I said: It's a matter of POV, and that's fine. For me, I feel a lot of impressions of characters, for good or ill, are entrenched in the apex of the franchise's popularity when many more people were reading, that's all. You don't have to agree. As for Monet's ethnicity, HoX is not presenting her as white and that's good.

[Silver Fang]

The dynamic in the 90s was they were villains who had sired a human son together. That's it. I really don't believe a lot of people know much about their latter stories together since. I certainly had no idea before now that they were seen a serious romance at any given point and I still don't see them as such. Hickman also has not presented them as that in their brief appearance together in HoX - Creed and Mystique have worked together many times.

Just light debate on my part. No confrontation intended, but just expanding on some points. But another example of old being phased out & rendered moot in favor of recent stuff (however bad) catching on & sticking around because writers don't research passed a certain point.

• Far as the romance goes, it's canon that Creed loves Mystique (after retconning), Meanwhile she does not care for him. It's a sexual relationship with one-sided feelings on Creed's end...Creed & Mystique worked together in X-Factor & the Muir Island attack. All their other alliances was after the forced romance. An Hickman is continuing the trend, especially the trend of Creed being a meathead Brotherhood henchman. Until the crappy X1 film, Creed had no connection with Brotherhood. But then Austen & Claremont copied the films., and now Creed is forever a meathead Brotherhood member rather than a cunning solo villain like he was.
• Deadpool is another example. His character was created in 1990, and he used to be a serious character when Joel Kelly started expanding on him. But most fans are familiar with the Daniel Way version of the character from 2007-2012 where he was a complete loony toon who heard voices in his head, and could tell fantasy from reality. Now DP is known as a Jar Jar Binks characters instead of serious like he used to be. And the films didn't help, where he's still a flanderized mess,

It happens too frequently to be a coincidence. How a character started or naturally developed can all crash down & become moot with 1 bad depiction that subsequent creators latch on to, Then it runs so long, the character becomes known for an inaccurate portrayal and the proper character is lost because it's been too long since they existed.

Monet's Generation X days would be unknown to many. But her X-Factor, and X-Men appearances will be more recognized. This is based on what I see on other media platforms. Given other fans' responses & comments on her, it's her X-Factor, X-Men, or Bunncanny self that seems more known.

But we can agree to disagree. No biggie, but just wanted to expand on my position,

[Beetle]

Speaking of that time Monet was on Wood's all female X-team, I'm disappointed that Monet didn't get that moment of interaction with Karima that Kurt did

[BroHomo]

[

....
Reclaiming all of herself, and making the form her own where she can control it at will, and is no longer imprisoned by it would be a good story of a demon Monet overcame and becoming stronger skill-wise, and emotionally.

Ugh your logic defeats my unfounded fanboy fears once again

To me it just makes sense, plain and simple. M has been tied to the Penance shell for years. She was imprisoned in it. Of course she would learn to control it herself eventually.

Uh the Penance shells been doing it's own thing for years

So for a lot of people, when they think M they first think Gen X and all that stuff. JMO. Even the (bad IMO) Uncanny book leaned on Emplate for her storyline.

Then those people should know that the Penance body took on a life of its own almost immediately after Monet was freed. They were 2 seperate characters

Speaking of that time Monet was on Wood's all female X-team, I'm disappointed that Monet didn't get that moment of interaction with Karima that Kurt did

the panels wouldn't have been able to contain that much melanin and attitude

[powerpax]

Uh the Penance shells been doing it's own thing for years

Then those people should know that the Penance body took on a life of its own almost immediately after Monet was freed. They were 2 seperate characters

Yeah, but let's face it, a lot of folks have not paid much attn to those stories, and they haven't been featured much solo either. Specifically that Hollow thing. That's a book (Loners?) only a hardcore comic fan knows about and which was forgotten by Marvel quickly (outside of Yoshida-san).