Victor Von Doom: Doctor Doom Appreciation 2019

[Coatl]

Yes, how foolish of them not to recognize the nascent genius in their care! I also forgot to note about how Doom took measures to see that the orphaned Kristoff was given a proper education too.

Yes, education seems to be a very important issue for Victor, still in Kristoff case, he wasn't attending a common college, but was homeschooled in the palace for what I think should be the best tutors available, and as far as I remember he was told to be a very quick learner, attentive and intelligent even before of his "enhancement". But before that I don't think that Doom has just drop his education, maybe just making him move to other topics. I always has wanted to see how developed are his magical abilities since they were never show in his run with the fantastic four even when years latter Kristoff admits that has been studying dark arts for himself and damaged his mind in the process (and used them to kick mister Fantastic and enhance his own armor) but since them he never has been shown using them.

I wonder who they could have as instructors? I imagine Victor might leave behind some visual material, a holographic lecture or two perhaps.

being such control freak I'm sure Doom regulates and supervises the educative program himself about the cast, well besides as Doombot and even female Doom Bots to make them look "less threatening" I think that they should have a very capacitated staff. We were able to see Baron Von Bold as one of the teachers so that's why I think that it would be a good place to find old characters. Also having a vampire as teacher sounds sensitive when one of your top students is claiming to be Morbius son. But that makes me wonder what were they measures to teach demonic based characters?

Ah, what comic did this take place in?

Invaders 2019 number 7
cw009 (2).jpg

[Iron Maiden]

So..........did anyone read Fantastic Four: 4 Yancy Street ?? Considering that the story prominently featured Doom's most enduring hirelings, The Terrible Trio, I was sort of expecting it. But the ending does show a seldom seen trait in Doom. It's amazing how enduring and loyal the Terrible Trio have been. Doom first enlisted them and endowed them with their powers in Fantastic Four #23. Most of their appearances in the 1960s were in Strange Tales attacking Ben and Johnny in ST #122 and #129. They popped up again to menace Alicia in MTIO #60. The last time I noted their appearance was in the Penance mini series issue #1. I think this is their only reappearance since then. It seems that Doom keeps them on retainer and has some kind of digital Rolodex to get in touch with them. Bull Brogan even mentioned some kind of employee benefits program





There were a few nice little cameos this week and then there are the continuing adventures and maybe a metamorphosis for my favorite Doombot (and yours too I hope) in Runaways. And It was quite fitting in Marvel Comics #1000 that the year 2015 was given a page devoted to Doom after the success of Secret Wars. The other page he was on was for the 1981, the year of the first Doom/Stark time adventure in Iron Man #150 came out. I like the contrast in the "welcomes" when they got back to the present.

I will go back and read the only thing since I only skimmed through it. But I wonder if Doom will play a role in the mystery of the Masked Raider? I thought it might have something to do with the device he is holding in his hands on the 1981 page....but maybe it just represents the makeshift time jump device they had to patch together to get back to the present in IM #150.

[Iron Maiden]

Yes, education seems to be a very important issue for Victor, still in Kristoff case, he wasn't attending a common college, but was homeschooled in the palace for what I think should be the best tutors available, and as far as I remember he was told to be a very quick learner, attentive and intelligent even before of his "enhancement". But before that I don't think that Doom has just drop his education, maybe just making him move to other topics. I always has wanted to see how developed are his magical abilities since they were never show in his run with the fantastic four even when years latter Kristoff admits that has been studying dark arts for himself and damaged his mind in the process (and used them to kick mister Fantastic and enhance his own armor) but since them he never has been shown using them.

Yes, you would think Kristoff would have some knowledge of magic from that "infusion" he got from the Remembrancer. Wasn't that in the Spider-Man and the Fantastic Four mini series where he talked about studying magic?

being such control freak I'm sure Doom regulates and supervises the educative program himself about the cast, well besides as Doombot and even female Doom Bots to make them look "less threatening" I think that they should have a very capacitated staff. We were able to see Baron Von Bold as one of the teachers so that's why I think that it would be a good place to find old characters. Also having a vampire as teacher sounds sensitive when one of your top students is claiming to be Morbius son. But that makes me wonder what were they measures to teach demonic based characters?


Invaders 2019 number 7
cw009 (2).jpg

Thanks for posting that. I have really got to get started reading the Invaders. I have some issues but will have to do some catch up on the Marvel site getting the ones I missed. I like how the Latverian ambassador is not falling for the faux outrage of the Russian ambassador.

It's too bad we've not seen those professors again from Infinity Hunt. Who knows? maybe some writer will revisit them. After all, look at the gap between Terrible Trio appearances

[Iron Maiden]

BleedingCool has a couple of page from the new Doctor Doom series. I think they are the same ones previewed at San Diego and posted in a screen shot here.

Christopher Cantwell tweeted his observation also

[ImperiusWrecked]

I'm very excited for this series, it's not much longer until it comes out and thanks for sharing the pics!

[Iron Maiden]

You're welcome, IW. Hard to believe that in about 4 weeks we will have that first issue in our hot little hands

[Coatl]

Yes, you would think Kristoff would have some knowledge of magic from that "infusion" he got from the Remembrancer. Wasn't that in the Spider-Man and the Fantastic Four mini series where he talked about studying magic?

Yes was that mini, it's hands down my favorite Kristoff related issue and the one who made me fall in love with the character.

RCO011.jpg

Seeing him using his own experience, magic and technology to take down the entire fantastic four plus spider-men just to be defeated by talking, was beautifully done, yes, he was the villain but also a lonely angry child, scared and hurt.

It's too bad we've not seen those professors again from Infinity Hunt. Who knows? maybe some writer will revisit them. After all, look at the gap between Terrible Trio appearances

Yes, I readed an article some time ago about the terrible trio, an interesting concept, but I have to say that the reinvention/imagination makes them look much better, there are characters that deals with time better than others also they are exactly the kind of character who I would like to see used again.

I think that one problem with Latveria is that the country and it's people aren't fleshed out enough, so writers tends to be very inconsistent since lacks for a real base. How technologically advanced are they? sometimes looks like a rural country and then we see people building doombots, sometimes people fears Doom and obey full of fear, sometimes love him ad regard him as a god, sometimes is impossible to get to Latveria, sometimes you can just get a commercial plane to get there.

I think that using more Latverian characters and explaining the daily life of the country would make a richer context and a more stable one, that's why I would like to see some explanation about the education there and also seeing again Latverian (or at least Doom related) characters.

[Iron Maiden]

That Spiderman and the FF mini is one of my favorites for that very reason. I thought that was a nice gesture by the writer Christos Gage, to bring back this character from relative obscurity with a compelling motive....neglect. Oh, Gage does go pretty far in showing how the FF were really looking for him all that time.....not that we ever really saw it. I understand that you don't want to make the heroes look bad. But anyone who read the Heroes Reborn/Heroes Return era can see that Kristoff was just not being used by any of the writers. I don't know if it was a weird anti-Byrne thing or they just didn't think of a good reason to use him in a story. You could say Doom does have more of a reason in that he really was marooned on Franklin's planet for a while. Then when he does come back, it wasn't long before he ended up being trapped in Hell after Unthinkable. But the real neglect was in the writers...they just didn't use him.

Even a new character like Victorious can be at risk of becoming forgotten. But I guess it is to early to tell. At least Cantwell used her in his story in War Scrolls #3. The same can't be said about another Latverian : Bram Velsing/Dreadknight. It's been some time since I've seen him in a story. IIRC in was an Iron Man mini series and he seemed to be loyal to Doom this time. Maybe he was brainwashed.

This is why I liked the world of Doom 2099. He had a good sized supporting cast of Latverians. There was Fortune, who I believe as a great, great granddaughter of Boris. Her brother Kaz, Poet (who immigrated to Latveria from the U.S I think) and Vox.

[Coatl]

That Spiderman and the FF mini is one of my favorites for that very reason. I thought that was a nice gesture by the writer Christos Gage, to bring back this character from relative obscurity with a compelling motive....neglect.

Yes I found his reasons very understable and even relatable, I mean, abandoned for his biological father even before of being born (in a society so close as latverian-gypsies). His mother murdered before him (leaving him alone). He seeks refuge in Doom but he uses him (even get him dead once in a plot to defeat Reed) and thrown him away the moment he begged him to spare the F4 lives (considering that Kristoff just team up with them, in order to rescue him, that was harsh, in Doom defense he was being tortured for months and was in a terrible mood). He follows the F4 just to be left behind when they traveled to the other word, again making him feel abandoned. And finally left to train with Nathaniel Richards just to be throw away (again) when he asked for help to overthrow the usurper on Latveria. Without family or friends and left behind and feeling betrayed for anyone who was supposed to take care of him; Is any wonder he had just snapped? The boy was 12.

Oh, Gage does go pretty far in showing how the FF were really looking for him all that time.....not that we ever really saw it. I understand that you don't want to make the heroes look bad.

Yes, still the "let's left the child run into his own dead in what is obviously a suicidal plan, because we already offer him help and he didn't accept so we CAN'T do anymore" was a bit easy IMO. I mean he stopped him once, just with kind words and some concern. After understanding that his behavior was a mixture of loneliness and frustration, and that he WASN'T IN HIS RIGHT MIND since the dark magic has affected him (something that he can't fix alone and was out his control). Why not make other try? He was a boy, sit him down and have a talk, send him to his room or something.

Instead we have a group (F4 and Spider) that dumped him as a lost cause, because after his mother dead instead of proper support he gets to live with Doom (other thing who was totally out of his control and they could have prevented) and because he trained in dark magic (who isn't a crime really), all told while they made a "group hug" and claim that always will get to support each other.

Also, the "we see you as family" also felt a bit OC since we never see them acting that way, in his time with the FF they were always distrusting of him and never were shown interacting outside missions, while I suppose that we can believe that they made it out of focus, the true is that "you don't want to make the heroes look bad".

But anyone who read the Heroes Reborn/Heroes Return era can see that Kristoff was just not being used by any of the writers. I don't know if it was a weird anti-Byrne thing or they just didn't think of a good reason to use him in a story. You could say Doom does have more of a reason in that he really was marooned on Franklin's planet for a while. Then when he does come back, it wasn't long before he ended up being trapped in Hell after Unthinkable.

Personally I see Doom behaviour as Bipolar, he can be very polite and "pet the dog" when in good mode and a complete monster who explodes for the more innocent comment at other. Still I see Unthinkable as a way to revile the character to levels that he shouldn't be reaching normally. Yes he is a Richards hater, but endangering babies and traumatizing little boys is too much also the let's murder the old flame (who is the granddaughter of one of the very few persons he loves) in exchange of power doesn't seems like something he would do, at least not just to screw Richards.

But the real neglect was in the writers...they just didn't use him.

The biggest true.

Even a new character like Victorious can be at risk of becoming forgotten. But I guess it is to early to tell. At least Cantwell used her in his story in War Scrolls #3. The same can't be said about another Latverian : Bram Velsing/Dreadknight. It's been some time since I've seen him in a story. IIRC in was an Iron Man mini series and he seemed to be loyal to Doom this time. Maybe he was brainwashed.

Victorious sees to have a good acceptation until now, it's early to tell f course but as I have said I would like to see Latveria having a more solid cast, and while I don't very fanatic of the idea the shiptease with Johnny Storm has pushed her a bit. About Dreadknight, well after all had happened between him and Doom brainwash is the only way I could explain loyalty at this point, that of he fixed his face.

This is why I liked the world of Doom 2099. He had a good sized supporting cast of Latverians. There was Fortune, who I believe as a great, great granddaughter of Boris. Her brother Kaz, Poet (who immigrated to Latveria from the U.S I think) and Vox.

Well has been literally ages since I checked Doom 2099, but damn I remember fortune and I have to say that that's what I talking about, a solid cast who make the histories richer and adds deep to the character by interacting between them.

[Iron Maiden]

Yes I found his reasons very understable and even relatable, I mean, abandoned for his biological father even before of being born (in a society so close as latverian-gypsies). His mother murdered before him (leaving him alone). He seeks refuge in Doom but he uses him (even get him dead once in a plot to defeat Reed) and thrown him away the moment he begged him to spare the F4 lives (considering that Kristoff just team up with them, in order to rescue him, that was harsh, in Doom defense he was being tortured for months and was in a terrible mood). He follows the F4 just to be left behind when they traveled to the other word, again making him feel abandoned. And finally left to train with Nathaniel Richards just to be throw away (again) when he asked for help to overthrow the usurper on Latveria. Without family or friends and left behind and feeling betrayed for anyone who was supposed to take care of him; Is any wonder he had just snapped? The boy was 12.



Yes, still the "let's left the child run into his own dead in what is obviously a suicidal plan, because we already offer him help and he didn't accept so we CAN'T do anymore" was a bit easy IMO. I mean he stopped him once, just with kind words and some concern. After understanding that his behavior was a mixture of loneliness and frustration, and that he WASN'T IN HIS RIGHT MIND since the dark magic has affected him (something that he can't fix alone and was out his control). Why not make other try? He was a boy, sit him down and have a talk, send him to his room or something.

Instead we have a group (F4 and Spider) that dumped him as a lost cause, because after his mother dead instead of proper support he gets to live with Doom (other thing who was totally out of his control and they could have prevented) and because he trained in dark magic (who isn't a crime really), all told while they made a "group hug" and claim that always will get to support each other.

Also, the "we see you as family" also felt a bit OC since we never see them acting that way, in his time with the FF they were always distrusting of him and never were shown interacting outside missions, while I suppose that we can believe that they made it out of focus, the true is that "you don't want to make the heroes look bad".

DeFalco's FF run is where he saw the most of Kristoff but as you say, the relationship wasn't exactly a warm one. It didn't help that Kristoff had the strange Doom armor with some kind of mini stilts inside so that he would have adult height while in the armor. But he sensed their unease around him.



If I recall the timeline on this mini series, it was around the time that Hickman's Fantastic Four is underway ...maybe a year or two? Hickman could not use Doom right off because there was the DoomWar mini and Fall of the Hulks. Hickman was clever and did make use of the events in Fall of the Hulks. Doom had been hooked into the Leader's copy (or did they steal Doom's?) Liddleville device and hooked up all the other geniuses to it. Doom had broken free of it and tried to use the device to drain the others that was still trapped in it. Except Banner tricked him and the machine sent a huge feedback charge into Doom...on top of that he got clobbered by the Red She Hulk. Logically, Hickman figures that he couldn't have come out of all that unscathed and writes into his FF that Valeria detects that he has brain damage. This also allows Doom to step aside and bring Kristoff in as regent. Hickkman leaves it to the reader to fill in the blanks and that the two have reconciled. I think it might have been you that found the interview where he says that "off screen", Kristoff did launch an attack against Doom but failed. He was sent into exile as punishment. But Doom tells Boris to go bring him back. We just never saw all of this in story. I miss the old days where Stan or Roy Thomas would put little text boxes to update the reader on things like this .

Personally I see Doom behaviour as Bipolar, he can be very polite and "pet the dog" when in good mode and a complete monster who explodes for the more innocent comment at other. Still I see Unthinkable as a way to revile the character to levels that he shouldn't be reaching normally. Yes he is a Richards hater, but endangering babies and traumatizing little boys is too much also the let's murder the old flame (who is the granddaughter of one of the very few persons he loves) in exchange of power doesn't seems like something he would do, at least not just to screw Richards.
Victorious sees to have a good acceptation until now, it's early to tell f course but as I have said I would like to see Latveria having a more solid cast, and while I don't very fanatic of the idea the shiptease with Johnny Storm has pushed her a bit. About Dreadknight, well after all had happened between him and Doom brainwash is the only way I could explain loyalty at this point, that of he fixed his face.

Bram Velsing could use some work as a character. His origin comes off as that he is just Victor von Doom - light. He is similar to pre-accident Victor but doesn't have much of a back story. I suppose you could use Secret Wars and the rebuild of the Marvel Universe to to reboot some characters. It's never been clear to me if the restoration of the universe brought back all of it's past or not. Does everyone remember everything of the old Earth?? Was it's history replayed at a highly accelerated rate? I don't think I've read a story that explains this. I'd like it if he perhaps became a part of Doom's loyal staff instead of an enemy..... Doom has enough of those to go around. Bendis did give us General Karadick but he flipped sides too much and was ready to kneel before Queen RiRi.

Well has been literally ages since I checked Doom 2099, but damn I remember fortune and I have to say that that's what I talking about, a solid cast who make the histories richer and adds deep to the character by interacting between them.

I forgot to mention Doom's lover and adversary Margaretta. Then there was Wire too.....he was a big fan and very loyal to Doom. Then with the One Nation Under Doom event, Ellis brought in new allies like Sharp Blue. The downside was that Ellis killed off Poet and Wire

[Coatl]

DeFalco's FF run is where he saw the most of Kristoff but as you say, the relationship wasn't exactly a warm one. It didn't help that Kristoff had the strange Doom armor with some kind of mini stilts inside so that he would have adult height while in the armor. But he sensed their unease around him.

Lol personally I see Scott as the characters who interacted more with Kristoff (besides Cassie) for better or worse, yes their relationship wasn't perfect (or even good) but he at least acknowledge the boy and even cared about his feelings a bit, while Kristoff made a new costume to Lang just as a gift and that saved his life. But at same time we can see that Kristoff is a bad day away to a mental breakdown and nobody notices.

tumblr_pdw3xuYHdA1wnsx41o1_1280.jpg

I think it might have been you that found the interview where he says that "off screen", Kristoff did launch an attack against Doom but failed. He was sent into exile as punishment. But Doom tells Boris to go bring him back. We just never saw all of this in story. I miss the old days where Stan or Roy Thomas would put little text boxes to update the reader on things like this.

Yes, that was me, I also miss the updates is hard to follow some characters in a big universe like marvel even more when histories involve so many characters and last too long. Also I remember mentioning something about how much I would like to see the history about that attack, because after that, exile aside, they seems to get a much better relationship after it and Kristoff stop being just the ward of Doom to become his son. And also because I think that Kristoff could have gave a hell of fight and that would have been fun to watch, also I'm interested in Doom reaction.

Bram Velsing could use some work as a character. His origin comes off as that he is just Victor von Doom - light. He is similar to pre-accident Victor but doesn't have much of a back story. I suppose you could use Secret Wars and the rebuild of the Marvel Universe to to reboot some characters. It's never been clear to me if the restoration of the universe brought back all of it's past or not. Does everyone remember everything of the old Earth?? Was it's history replayed at a highly accelerated rate? I don't think I've read a story that explains this. I'd like it if he perhaps became a part of Doom's loyal staff instead of an enemy..... Doom has enough of those to go around. Bendis did give us General Karadick but he flipped sides too much and was ready to kneel before Queen RiRi.

Every Latverian character could use some some work, they seems to only have two modes, fanatically loyal to Doom or wanting to depose Doom and take the power themselves. About the restoration of the universe I think that was some sort of reset button, most people don't even remember that the universe ended in first place and kept their live as nothing has happened, because for them nothing happened, Richards could have left a gift here and there (as Doom face) but basically all happened good or evil. I think that Castle Doom is attended mostly by Doombots, but I also would like to see the human element, what about the aristocracy? you know those who doesn't want to kill Doom , do they compete to earn his favour? how much power they really hold?

I forgot to mention Doom's lover and adversary Margaretta. Then there was Wire too.....he was a big fan and very loyal to Doom. Then with the One Nation Under Doom event, Ellis brought in new allies like Sharp Blue. The downside was that Ellis killed off Poet and Wire

Some day (when I get a free day) I going to do a list of all the lovers of Victor, they have to be very interesting woman to be at the level of Doom himself. About the universe 2099 it's a shame they doesn't get more work was a very rich universe with compelling histories, I don't know even if after the Secret wars event when all the universes were destroyed other besides the 616 was restored.

[Iron Maiden]

Lol personally I see Scott as the characters who interacted more with Kristoff (besides Cassie) for better or worse, yes their relationship wasn't perfect (or even good) but he at least acknowledge the boy and even cared about his feelings a bit, while Kristoff made a new costume to Lang just as a gift and that saved his life. But at same time we can see that Kristoff is a bad day away to a mental breakdown and nobody notices.

Kristoff and Scott had a peculiar relationship but I think Scott did at least try to get along. Kristoff used to delight in belittling him any chance he could get ...he did get infused with a bit of Doom's hubris after all. I guess we can assume it must have eventually worn off. He still seems to be suffering the effects in that Spidey/FF mini series but by the time Hickman uses him, that seems to have faded away. That had happened before in Simonson's FF. Doom had to merely say the word "ourobors", which is the mythical snake that eats its own tail, and it was like a spell was broken. DeFalco notoriously negates this as soon as his FF run begins. Later when Kristoff is found in some kind of stasis chamber back in the hiddenmonastery in Tibet where Doom sought refuge, he becomes a bit "Doomy" again. But at least he knows he's Kristoff and not Doom.

Yes, that was me, I also miss the updates is hard to follow some characters in a big universe like marvel even more when histories involve so many characters and last too long. Also I remember mentioning something about how much I would like to see the history about that attack, because after that, exile aside, they seems to get a much better relationship after it and Kristoff stop being just the ward of Doom to become his son. And also because I think that Kristoff could have gave a hell of fight and that would have been fun to watch, also I'm interested in Doom reaction.

I guess we can assume that Doom may have considered Kristoff's rebellion as part of Kristoff's growing pains. He probably respected him more for doing it. On his part, Kristoff becomes even more attached to him as a father figure. He was angry about the collar that the evil Reed from the Council had placed on Doom. And he was very upset when it appeared that Doom had died when he chose to stay behind to hold off the Mad Celestials. Here's a couple of panels that shows this...another reason why I really liked how Hickman uses Kristoff in his Fantastic Four run. Later on, when Namor comes to see Doom about the difficulties he's having dealing with ruthlessness of Thanos and the Black Order, we see that Doom has Kristoff sit in on the meeting. I like to think that this is an example of Doom preparing Kristoff in dealing with matters of state.

Every Latverian character could use some some work, they seems to only have two modes, fanatically loyal to Doom or wanting to depose Doom and take the power themselves. About the restoration of the universe I think that was some sort of reset button, most people don't even remember that the universe ended in first place and kept their live as nothing has happened, because for them nothing happened, Richards could have left a gift here and there (as Doom face) but basically all happened good or evil. I think that Castle Doom is attended mostly by Doombots, but I also would like to see the human element, what about the aristocracy? you know those who doesn't want to kill Doom , do they compete to earn his favour? how much power they really hold?

Some day (when I get a free day) I going to do a list of all the lovers of Victor, they have to be very interesting woman to be at the level of Doom himself. About the universe 2099 it's a shame they doesn't get more work was a very rich universe with compelling histories, I don't know even if after the Secret wars event when all the universes were destroyed other besides the 616 was restored.

I am looking forward to this 2099 mini event. I just hope I'm not disappointed like I was the last time the Doom of the 2099 universe appeared. It was more of a "wallpaper" appearance, just part of a panel with no dialog. I know someone here had mentioned it was probably done to keep the copyright active or something like that.

As for lovers, I still hate that Valeria was sacrificed in Unthinkable. I would love to see a story one day where one writer revisits that....why not have Doom try to save her like he did all those years with his mother. What Waid did IMO matches what Gail Simone called "fridging" a female character. The only reason they are appearing in the story is as a sacrifice to the plot. Valeria was another character that was neglected for decades. Her last appearance IIRC was in an old Hulk story.

I wish they had done something a bit risky with Doom and Fem Loki but that would probably have not made for a PG rating. But it was fun to see them together.

[Reviresco]

I hope this means we get the rest of Doom 2099 reprinted in trade!

[Iron Maiden]

I hope so. I can understand why they collected only the Warren Ellis issues. He is more well known than John Francis Moore who developed the Doom 2099 series. His last writing credit is from DC in 2003 and I presume he dropped out of the comic book business. There was a lot of turmoil at that time. Marvel was on shaky financial ground and they abruptly cancelled most of the 2099 after firing the line's chief editor Joe Cavalieri in a cost cutting move. This resulted in some of the major writers like PAD and Ellis quitting in protest to Cavalieri's firing. Marvel cancelled all the 2099 titles and then just had one all in one title called 2099 World of Tomorrow. That only lasted 8 issues.

If they don't plan on doing any print editions I wish they would at least put more of Doom 2099 in Marvel Unlimited. There's only one issue in the system. What is also odd is that you can't buy a digital edition of the Doom 2099 TPB. Usually they show up in the Marvel store eventually but they've not made it available for some reason. I already have the TPB but it's nice to have a digital version for reading too.

[Iron Maiden]

I forgot that NYCC is this weekend. I hope we see some news about Christ Cantwell's Doctor Doom series