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  1. #766
    Fantastic Member Doombot's Avatar
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    Yeah exactly. In a world full of super-powered people, he made himself into their equal (or superior) by the sheer strength of his own mind and determination.

  2. #767
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doombot View Post
    Yeah exactly. In a world full of super-powered people, he made himself into their equal (or superior) by the sheer strength of his own mind and determination.
    What's funny is that's such an American thing if you think about it. The idea of a poor kid picking himself up by his bootstraps and making something of himself (which is admittedly more myth than reality in America than people see) is quite rare to see in Europe. Europe's always been this class-driven society. If you see Doom as an European, you'd have to compare him to Napoleon (a minor Corsican nobleman who spoke French with a thick Italian accent ultimately became Emperor of most of Europe) or someone like that.

    But at the same time Doom is anti-American. He spat on the American dream. So he's a real contradiction.

  3. #768
    Fantastic Member Doombot's Avatar
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    All those contradictions in Doom's character is why he's been so fascinating for so long.

  4. #769
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Exactly! As to Kirby's design for Doom and the rendition of his early life in a Romani camp I think you have to go back to Kirby's younger days. Kirby served in the infantry in WWII and was in General Patton's regiment IIRC. They gave him the role of advance scout as they were advancing through Europe to push back the German army. The Europe he saw in WWII is probably very close to what we saw in the old Universal horror films of the 1940s. After all, there is a real Dracula's castle more properly known as Bran Castle. Kirby mostly slogged through northern France IIRC and saw first hand evidence of how the Germans treated the outcasts since he wrote about encountering one of the smaller stockades of forced labor camps while on patrol. It's a rather long and fascinating account of Kirby's WWII experiences. It also is the basis of my theory that Jack Kirby probably wrote most of Doom's origin and Stan just followed his lead on that.

    Along with Doom's armor and castle, Kirby drew the citizens to look more like something from the past. The nobles that we see Victor swindling are garbed in fur trimmed clothing of an earlier era. I've sometimes said that Doom's early life looks is like a fairy tale gone bad. There is no kindly king to rule the land. It was a world of oppression and poverty. So it's no wonder that Victor's first transformation was to become a young revolutionary.

  5. #770
    Amazing Member Coulson's Avatar
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    As a costume designer I spend a lot of time thinking about the language of clothing, and it's great to see how much others pick up about Doom's identity based on his costume alone. Even things I never thought about. I do feel there is an element of Doom creating a persona that reflects his idea of what a monarch should look like. This isn't the class he was born into, and in some ways I think that works to his advantage in connecting with the people of his country. There is something inherently regal about his costume, especially when artists add some fur to his cloak.

  6. #771
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    There's other influences on Doom too. I am thinking "The Man in the Iron Mask". There were a lot of Hollywood takes on that back then. A dude in an iron mask who is secretly the rightful king of the land. That has a darker edge in Latveria....Doom has no claim to the throne aside from conquest and force and he's a tyrant but a better ruler than the regime that came before and the ones offered by rebels like Prince Rudolf and so on.

    There's also Captain Nemo. A former Indian Prince who becomes a super-scientist with his own base and island (though that's more Magneto than Doom).

  7. #772
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    There's other influences on Doom too. I am thinking "The Man in the Iron Mask". There were a lot of Hollywood takes on that back then. A dude in an iron mask who is secretly the rightful king of the land. That has a darker edge in Latveria....Doom has no claim to the throne aside from conquest and force and he's a tyrant but a better ruler than the regime that came before and the ones offered by rebels like Prince Rudolf and so on.

    There's also Captain Nemo. A former Indian Prince who becomes a super-scientist with his own base and island (though that's more Magneto than Doom).
    Interestingly, I'm pretty sure that there was an interview with either Stan Lee or Jack Kirby that mentions that 1939 movie version (which I didn't know was directed by James Whale) as the type of movie they would see when growing up.

    I like the linking of Doom to Captain Nemo since it is now known that the Roma migrated from the northern provinces of India about 1,500 years ago. Then we have that frustratingly incomplete subplot that Ed Brubaker left behind in his Captain America that I've brought up here before. Operatives of the Red Skull had unearthed some artifacts in Germany that seemed to indicate that there was a mysterious outsider who ruled the land that was guarded by his robot men. The Red Skull used this information in trade in order to get Doom to build the time gun that was used to "assassinate" Cap in that shocking conclusion to Civil War. Doom has been sitting on this information for years, which is to say Marvel forgot about it.

    I wish Brubaker gave out more information about what he intended to do with this dangling subplot. Was it some way to explain the von Doom name? Could this outsider have given himself a new name that the people would accept. Perhaps Doom's true family name is lost to the ages because this mysterious ancestor re-invented himself with an assumed name.




  8. #773
    Fantastic Member Doombot's Avatar
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    Hey does anyone remember Doom's ability to turn off the X-gene? What book(s) it's referenced in? It came up in the Hickman X-men thread, but for the life of me I can't remember what book and when that was first revealed.

  9. #774
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doombot View Post
    Hey does anyone remember Doom's ability to turn off the X-gene? What book(s) it's referenced in? It came up in the Hickman X-men thread, but for the life of me I can't remember what book and when that was first revealed.
    I'm drawing a blank on that too.

  10. #775
    Fantastic Member Doombot's Avatar
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    I vaguely remember it from some encounter with Magneto. He used it or threatened to use it against him. I know I saw it somewhere, damnit!

  11. #776
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doombot View Post
    I vaguely remember it from some encounter with Magneto. He used it or threatened to use it against him. I know I saw it somewhere, damnit!
    Was it recent or maybe before Secret Wars??? Because I don't remember anything during Infamous Iron Man.

  12. #777
    Fantastic Member Doombot's Avatar
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    It was way back, the 90s I'm thinking. Some obscure book or crossover that I can no longer remember.

  13. #778
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    Those are the most difficult to find. Since they did an upgrade on Marvel Unlimited, their search index is not as good. It seems to me it is in complete and the misses a lot of common appearances of characters. I remember that one story about Doom and Magneto sharing their thoughts with each other about their origins. Maybe it was it that. I know John Byrne drew it but he didn't write it. I just can't remember what comic it was in just now

  14. #779
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doombot View Post
    I vaguely remember it from some encounter with Magneto. He used it or threatened to use it against him. I know I saw it somewhere, damnit!
    You must be thinking about the 1998 X Men Annual story where Doom traveled time trying to figure out Onslaught and ran across Magneto before he took over Genosha and got the advantage but Magneto still fought him to a standstill again.

  15. #780
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichelleDiMera View Post
    You must be thinking about the 1998 X Men Annual story where Doom traveled time trying to figure out Onslaught and ran across Magneto before he took over Genosha and got the advantage but Magneto still fought him to a standstill again.
    Thanks. I will have to check that out!

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