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  1. #646
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    So is Moon girl the official smartest character on earth? And who are the top 5 smartest now?

  2. #647
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    1. Reed, 2. Doom, 3. Tony Stark, 4. Doctor Strange.

    Not sure about number five. Some I know would prefer putting Doom above Reed, but Doom himself admitted Reed was better in Secret Wars '2015.

  3. #648
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    1. Reed, 2. Doom, 3. Tony Stark, 4. Doctor Strange.

    Not sure about number five. Some I know would prefer putting Doom above Reed, but Doom himself admitted Reed was better in Secret Wars '2015.
    Doctor Strange ? he is a very good surgeon an the best sorcerer, but he is definitively not one of the smartest men of the Marvel Universe, not even in the top 100. you have Black Panther, The leader, Doctor Octopus, Banner, Valeria Richard, Moon girl, Modok, all the future foundation, Nadia Pym, Hank Pym... who are way smarter than him.
    I try to improve my english, feel free to correct me by DM if you see some mistakes !

  4. #649
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lordozone View Post
    Doctor Strange ? he is a very good surgeon an the best sorcerer, but he is definitively not one of the smartest men of the Marvel Universe...
    Well in the Marvel Universe, where magic is one of the primary cosmic forces underpinning everything, knowing the most about magic would make you one of the smartest figures in that world. Doom after all is both a great scientist and great sorcerer. So Doom accepts that magic is an essential sub-field of knowledge. Stephen knows more about magic than Doom does but less about physics and chemistry and engineering than Victor does. So it balances out.

  5. #650
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    That's an interesting choice to put Doctor Strange up there. And you're reasoning is valid. We tend to equate genius with scientific acumen but there are those whose genius lies in other areas like art or music.

  6. #651
    Spectacular Member Coatl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lordozone View Post
    Doctor Strange ? he is a very good surgeon an the best sorcerer, but he is definitively not one of the smartest men of the Marvel Universe, not even in the top 100. you have Black Panther, The leader, Doctor Octopus, Banner, Valeria Richard, Moon girl, Modok, all the future foundation, Nadia Pym, Hank Pym... who are way smarter than him.
    Hello people, I have been buried on job so, no time to get here and participate in some of the past topics even when I found them very interesting.

    About the current issue, well I agree about Magic don't making you intelligent per se, it's just another field of knowledge like physics or biology, so the best biologist in the world doesn't have to be the smarter person in earth or even top 5. Also we have seen powerful magic users (Like Wanda or Wican or Zatanna) that aren't very Smart so, no I don't relate magic with intelligence.

    Other point could be that, we should differentiate intelligence from knowledge. I think that characters as Moon girl and Valeria are very intelligent (Is said that even more than Reed) but lacks knowledge for her short age and experience.

    If we are talking about just smarts well 1) Moon girl is stated as the smartest (I don't like it but is cannon) 2) Valeria is said to be over his father (again I'm not very pleased) and then theres is 3) Reed 4) Doom (who isn't the smartest but IMO has more knowledge since he effectively dominates several fields of technology AND Magic) 5) Tony (since he altered his own brain to perform better), after them I would like to add all those characters lordozone mentioned (who are experts in SEVERAL fields) and Amadeus Cho (who was supposed to be the 8 or 9), Riri Williams, New version of Shuri, Beats and maaaaybe Peter Parker.

  7. #652
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    I personally think we should not confuse the capacity for intelligence and so on with actual displays and achievements.

    Valeria has the potential to be smarter than her Dad and she's young and she's smarter than other kids her age and so on, probably smarter than Reed was at her age. The same applies to everyone.

    Personally I think the idea of "most intelligent" and so on is silly and unscientific.

    Knowledge isn't a rat race it's a collaboration. Albert Einstein is considered the smartest man of the 20th century, but he didn't do everything. What Einstein did was General Theory of Relativity and other theories, but stuff like Quantum physics owes itself to Max Planck, Bohr, and Heisenberg. Einstein was no inventor. So stuff like transistors to which we owe the modern consumer electronics revolution was invented by William Shockley, John Bardeen and Walter Brattain at Bell Labs. Other inventions were done by different people.

    Marvel generally operates on a fairly dumb idea of knowledge and science as it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    That's an interesting choice to put Doctor Strange up there. And you're reasoning is valid. We tend to equate genius with scientific acumen but there are those whose genius lies in other areas like art or music.
    I agree. My feeling is that if we consider the Marvel Universe as a whole and the type of forces there...since this is a universe where magic is a real thing, where the supernatural exists and so on, then knowing about science or a scientific understanding would not by itself make you understand that world. So the world's greatest sorceror, which is Doctor Stephen Strange, would just have to be one of the brightest minds of that world.

  8. #653
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    That's an interesting choice to put Doctor Strange up there. And you're reasoning is valid. We tend to equate genius with scientific acumen but there are those whose genius lies in other areas like art or music.
    Even then is he really close to the genius of Beast, Sinister, Dark Beast, or Magneto? Yes he mastered the arts but him at his best was no match for Wanda using 3 little words back in 05.

  9. #654
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichelleDiMera View Post
    Even then is he really close to the genius of Beast, Sinister, Dark Beast, or Magneto? Yes he mastered the arts but him at his best was no match for Wanda using 3 little words back in 05.
    IMO, NO, he is a top performer or a single discipline, while many other characters mentioned are masters in SEVERAL. Also some of this actions are not because his own effort but because as sorcerer supreme he has access to several trinkets who boost his powers. When he lost the title and the power it gave him, he was no better than Wanda, Wiccan, Morgana, Loki, Brother Voodoo, Karnilla or even Enchantress. I think that Strange is very intelligent, maybe a genius in is own right, but no between the smartest.

  10. #655
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichelleDiMera View Post
    Even then is he really close to the genius of Beast, Sinister, Dark Beast, or Magneto?
    Those three aren't at the top level of the best scientists, while Doctor Strange is at the highest level of knowledge in sorcery.

    Yes he mastered the arts but him at his best was no match for Wanda using 3 little words back in 05.
    This is about intelligence and knowledge of field (i.e magic and mystic arts), and not about power-level.

    In terms of power level there are more powerful figures than Doom and Reed and Strange. Galactus is more powerful than Doom, but Victor is smarter. Galactus couldn't do anything against the Beyonder, it fell to Victor to outsmart him.

  11. #656
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    1. Lunella
    2. Valeria
    3. Reed
    4. Doom
    5. Your Favorite (EGGHEAD!)

  12. #657
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Those three aren't at the top level of the best scientists, while Doctor Strange is at the highest level of knowledge in sorcery.



    This is about intelligence and knowledge of field (i.e magic and mystic arts), and not about power-level.

    In terms of power level there are more powerful figures than Doom and Reed and Strange. Galactus is more powerful than Doom, but Victor is smarter. Galactus couldn't do anything against the Beyonder, it fell to Victor to outsmart him.
    That's interesting because at his best he failed with Wanda attacking an.entire species..he admitted he failed outright too in the aftermath. Sinister creates clones, augments mutations, and there is no geneticist that is better..so that's a interesting comment in saying he's a master over him.

    Power level dont matter..he wasnt smart enough to stop or prevent Wanda. And even afterwards, he had no answers for 8 years.

  13. #658
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichelleDiMera View Post
    That's interesting because at his best he failed with Wanda attacking an.entire species..he admitted he failed outright too in the aftermath. Sinister creates clones, augments mutations, and there is no geneticist that is better..so that's a interesting comment in saying he's a master over him.
    Sinister is a eugenicist and not a geneticist. There's a difference.

    Power level dont matter..he wasnt smart enough to stop or prevent Wanda. And even afterwards, he had no answers for 8 years.
    Smart people can make mistakes too. Reed and Doom have both made mistakes and so on. Even Einstein made mistakes and so on, being not able to entirely embrace a quantum view of things.

  14. #659
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    I don't mean to offend anyone but as to Lunella, I have to agree with her detractors that it is ridiculous that she would be smarter than adults. I was also against Mark Miller's sudden enhancement of Valeria when she was just a toddler and barely past being toilet trained. We never even saw how she learned how to read. Sue and Reed were both mystifield by her sudden jump in intelligence. Granted there has been child prodigies in the real world but a child has to be taught some of the basics of communication like reading, writing, etc. One cannot spontaneously create knowledge. The only way to explain Valeria IMO is that she is the reincarnation of Valeria von Doom had got jump-started somehow. Maybe when she was visited by Future Sue and Future Val? Who knows?...it's a fictional world anyway.

    I have my doubts about Lunella but at least she has interacted with other children and adults in an educational environment. In any case, she still lacks a lot of RW experience to inform her studies. Reed and Victor have been all over the multiverse, in time and space etc. They've studied alien technologies and developed interdimensional portals. Moon Girl is a comic for younger readers so that's the world where she can have her adventures. I doubt she would have been able to defeat the Beyonders. Or create a scenario like the Yellow Claw affair in Nick Fury Agent of SHIELD were he was merely indulging in an intellectual exercise that kept SHIELD occupied for weeks with his use of highly sophisticated robotic duplicates.



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    CBR just shared the "tooting Doom" on its FB page.

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