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  1. #2311
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superfan90 View Post
    No, it works as science sometimes and magic on other times. Its not both effects at once.
    This is literally not true, it's explained that there is a hidden particle to gamma that Bruce's father was trying to find and that part is actually magic which is connected to the divine, Gamma doesn't randomly make up it's mind and act one moment as science and another as magic. This is entirely your headcannon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Superfan90 View Post
    Fascinating, now please stop mentioning Superman in this thread. Go to battles if you want to continue.
    No, if i feel like mentioning him i will.

  2. #2312
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlatinumThorns View Post
    Joe's son passed a way a couple of weeks ago. #28 and a few issues more will likely be delayed by a couple weeks at the very least.
    Damn that sucks. I hope Bennet is able to take time to grieve. It’s going to suck if he’s off the book permanently but the death of a child is not really something a parent ever heals from. I wouldn’t be surprised if we lose him, I hope whoever they get is just as good.

    Been playing the video game Ultimate Destruction again, it’s what kindled my love of Hulk, and man how did we never get a sequel to this, either directly or a spiritual successor? Literally the PERFECT Hulk game and it never got a follow up. Makes me mad that we got so many mediocre Spidey games but Hulk never got a follow up. Any Hulk game now would probably draw from Ruffalo’s boring “Bro Hulk” take rather than the comics sadly. That Square Enix Hulk is so clearly a Ruffalo rip off it hurts, they all are just their boring MCU counterparts. As someone who’s never really liked the MCU takes on anyone except Tony it sucks that those have kind of become the new default.
    Last edited by Vordan; 11-02-2019 at 09:47 PM.

  3. #2313
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Damn that sucks. I hope Bennet is able to take time to grieve. It’s going to suck if he’s off the book permanently but the death of a child is not really something a parent ever heals from. I wouldn’t be surprised if we lose him, I hope whoever they get is just as good.

    Been playing the video game Ultimate Destruction again, it’s what kindled my love of Hulk, and man how did we never get a sequel to this, either directly or a spiritual successor? Literally the PERFECT Hulk game and it never got a follow up. Makes me mad that we got so many mediocre Spidey games but Hulk never got a follow up. Any Hulk game now would probably draw from Ruffalo’s boring “Bro Hulk” take rather than the comics sadly. That Square Enix Hulk is so clearly a Ruffalo rip off it hurts, they all are just their boring MCU counterparts. As someone who’s never really liked the MCU takes on anyone except Tony it sucks that those have kind of become the new default.

    There’s a Joe Fixit skin already confirmed for it. Wouldnt think it’d be that hard to add a Green Scar skin (among others) as time goes by. If game is pretty playable, Ill get it cuz its been since Ultimate Destruction, I’ve played as Hulk. The 08 movie game was pretty terriblefrom what reviews/people were saying so I never played it.

  4. #2314
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrazettaHulk View Post
    There’s a Joe Fixit skin already confirmed for it. Wouldnt think it’d be that hard to add a Green Scar skin (among others) as time goes by. If game is pretty playable, Ill get it cuz its been since Ultimate Destruction, I’ve played as Hulk. The 08 movie game was pretty terriblefrom what reviews/people were saying so I never played it.
    WHAT? I didn’t see that! Holy **** man you just rekindled my hope. If someone on the team brought in Joe maybe I wrote this game off too early. I’m still kind of wary because “Games as a Service” tend to be “games with a crap ton of bugs and no content because we need to sell a ton of DLC” but you’ve just reignited some interest for me! Yeah the movie tie in game I heard was crap just like pretty much every movie tie in game except the Rami Spidey games lol. I was so hopeful that we were getting a updated Ultimate Destruction sequel when TIH was first announced too. I just checked and UD has Paul Jenkins as the writer! That explains why it was so good, having a comic book writer on the Arkham games helped those out as well. Honestly it should be mandatory.

  5. #2315
    Fantastic Member Superfan90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intothevoid View Post
    This is literally not true, it's explained that there is a hidden particle to gamma that Bruce's father was trying to find and that part is actually magic which is connected to the divine, Gamma doesn't randomly make up it's mind and act one moment as science and another as magic. This is entirely your headcannon.
    Its literally stated that gamma works as either science or magic.



    Its either science or magic given at a time. Like dual nature of photons (either wave or a particle) but not both simultaneously. Its not random, it's a part of quantum mechanics which is how I think Ewing has modeled gamma on.



    No, if i feel like mentioning him i will.
    But why? This is not a Hulk vs Superman thread.
    Last edited by Superfan90; 11-02-2019 at 10:37 PM.

  6. #2316
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superfan90 View Post
    Its literally stated that gamma works as either science or magic.



    Its either science or magic given at a time. Like dual nature of photons (either wave or a particle) but not both simultaneously. Its not random, it's a part of quantum mechanics which is how I think Ewing has modeled gamma on.

    But why? This is not a Hulk vs Superman thread.
    Ewing (or other writers perhaps in future) won’t talk about Superman vs Hulk dynamic very often. When he/they do its ok to put that info here imo w/o it having to go strictly to Battleboards.

  7. #2317
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    WHAT? I didn’t see that! Holy **** man you just rekindled my hope. If someone on the team brought in Joe maybe I wrote this game off too early. I’m still kind of wary because “Games as a Service” tend to be “games with a crap ton of bugs and no content because we need to sell a ton of DLC” but you’ve just reignited some interest for me! Yeah the movie tie in game I heard was crap just like pretty much every movie tie in game except the Rami Spidey games lol. I was so hopeful that we were getting a updated Ultimate Destruction sequel when TIH was first announced too. I just checked and UD has Paul Jenkins as the writer! That explains why it was so good, having a comic book writer on the Arkham games helped those out as well. Honestly it should be mandatory.

    Here’s link with it and a pic.
    http://epicstream.com/news/BayaniMig...Joe-Fixit-Skin

  8. #2318
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superfan90 View Post
    Its literally stated that gamma works as either science or magic.
    You are completely misinterpreting the statement there. It literally tells you gamma works as "science" UNTIL it makes metaphor people, until it makes Hulks then it becomes magic. Which confirms that Hulk is basically a magical/divine being, which even goes back to the comment Thor made about Hulk being a god or a devil.

    Quote Originally Posted by Superfan90 View Post
    Its either science or magic given at a time. Like dual nature of photons (either wave or a particle) but not both simultaneously. Its not random, it's a part of quantum mechanics which is how I think Ewing has modeled gamma on.
    No, this is not how it works. Nowhere in the comics is anything like this even mentioned and Ewing himself has made it clear that gamma is now basically magic.

    7125037-1.jpg

    And no it's not based on Quantum mechanics, Ewing has admitted he hasn't done any research on it

    3333333.jpg

    Instead he he has done more religious research, which is what ties gamma to DIVINE.

    Quote Originally Posted by Superfan90 View Post
    But why? This is not a Hulk vs Superman thread.
    It doesn't have to be for me to mention the 2 characters in relation to one another.

  9. #2319
    Fantastic Member Superfan90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrazettaHulk View Post
    Ewing (or other writers perhaps in future) won’t talk about Superman vs Hulk dynamic very often. When he/they do its ok to put that info here imo w/o it having to go strictly to Battleboards.
    Fair enough. 10 chars.

  10. #2320
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intothevoid View Post
    You are completely misinterpreting the statement there. It literally tells you gamma works as "science" UNTIL it makes metaphor people, until it makes Hulks then it becomes magic. Which confirms that Hulk is basically a magical/divine being, which even goes back to the comment Thor made about Hulk being a god or a devil.



    No, this is not how it works. Nowhere in the comics is anything like this even mentioned and Ewing himself has made it clear that gamma is now basically magic.
    That's not what the comic shows. It explicitly states that Gamma is science UNTIL it isn't and the reason for the change can't be predicted.

    7125037-1.jpg

    And no it's not based on Quantum mechanics, Ewing has admitted he hasn't done any research on it

    3333333.jpg

    Instead he he has done more religious research, which is what ties gamma to DIVINE.
    But that doesn't makes Hulk a magical being, Ewing explained it as quasi magical.

    Kanayama: Where did the idea of radiation being magic first come from for you?

    Ewing: I think it was — I’ll put something in a comic and then I’ll follow the train of thought a bit, then put that in a comic and follow the train of thought a bit further, and so on. But we had stuff like the Green Door in the beginning, and it was like, okay, where does the Green Door lead? To Hell, but then it’s got to be a special Hell. And then we got into the idea that this is where gamma is from.

    And the stuff about the third form of gamma radiation — we needed a flashback to what made Brian Banner so weird and what freaked him out so much. So a lot of this we make up as we need it, and then we pretend we planned it all along. But recently I’ve been thinking about other kinds of radiation in the Marvel universe, like cosmic rays and the radioactive spider — that goes back to the mid-noughties, that sort of, “oh, well, that spider was magic.” I don’t know if I’m going to do anything with it, because at a certain point you’re stepping on people’s toes a bit, but I definitely want a hint of this stuff. I’ve talked to Dan Slott about it, and I got a “That’s interesting!” out of him, so that’s as close as I’m going to get to permission. But I’m messing about with it at this point.

    …I guess there was always a very science-y explanation for the whole “radiation is magic” thing, and that kind of bugs me, because I sort of prefer the more poetic explanations for things. That’s why I quite like the question of, did you get randomly bitten by a spider, or did the spider select you? There’s a poetry there. It’s not just, “Here’s how mutants work, according to wibbly-wobbly science.” And I think with the Hulk, making it a quasi-magical explanation, something that by definition cannot be explained, that doesn’t subtract; that adds to it.
    If we take Ewing's explanation, everyone who has powers due to radiation has quasi magical origin. That's like 90% of marvel characters.

    You're over analyzing this stuff for battle board purposes.



    It doesn't have to be for me to mention the 2 characters in relation to one another.
    Yes, you do. Its Hulk appreciation thread, discuss Hulk related topics here. Not battle board things.

  11. #2321
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superfan90 View Post
    That's not what the comic shows. It explicitly states that Gamma is science UNTIL it isn't and the reason for the change can't be predicted.
    That's LITERALLY what the comic shows, it says gamma is science UNTIL it makes metaphor people and Hulks and what does Bruce Banner turn into? A Hulk, also it being unpredictable is one of the reasons it's attributed to magic in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Superfan90 View Post
    But that doesn't makes Hulk a magical being, Ewing explained it as quasi magical.
    There is no mention of quasi-magic, just magic. Again it literally makes him a magical being, all Hulks are magical beings because they are made by the part of gamma that is magical in nature.

    Quote Originally Posted by Superfan90 View Post
    If we take Ewing's explanation, everyone who has powers due to radiation has quasi magical origin. That's like 90% of marvel characters.
    Yes, exactly. In that interview even he mentions Peter Parker being bit by a radioactive spider and the F4 getting hit by cosmic rays, he even mentions how he brought the idea to Dan Slott who said it was interesting, so he indeed wants to retcon all radiation as being magical in some way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Superfan90 View Post
    You're over analyzing this stuff for battle board purposes.
    I do like analyzing stuff, nothing wrong with that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Superfan90 View Post
    Yes, you do. Its Hulk appreciation thread, discuss Hulk related topics here. Not battle board things.
    I was discussing Hulk related topics and how they related to another character, there is no rule against it.

  12. #2322
    Fantastic Member Superfan90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intothevoid View Post
    That's LITERALLY what the comic shows, it says gamma is science UNTIL it makes metaphor people and Hulks and what does Bruce Banner turn into? A Hulk, also it being unpredictable is one of the reasons it's attributed to magic in the first place.
    It seems you're twisting the comic to suit your own views. Gamma isn't always magic, that's clear from Ewing.



    There is no mention of quasi-magic, just magic. Again it literally makes him a magical being, all Hulks are magical beings because they are made by the part of gamma that is magical in nature.
    I guess you know better than Ewing does who says it's a quasi magical origin. But ok.



    Yes, exactly. In that interview even he mentions Peter Parker being bit by a radioactive spider and the F4 getting hit by cosmic rays, he even mentions how he brought the idea to Dan Slott who said it was interesting, so he indeed wants to retcon all radiation as being magical in some way.
    Quasi magical. Important distinction.



    I do like analyzing stuff, nothing wrong with that.



    I was discussing Hulk related topics and how they related to another character, there is no rule against it.
    Nothing wrong. But not the right place. I for one want to discuss Hulk here. Not Hulk vs Superman.

  13. #2323
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superfan90 View Post
    It seems you're twisting the comic to suit your own views. Gamma isn't always magic, that's clear from Ewing.
    This is extremely disingenuous... you literally just blatantly lied here without reserve... Not only has the comic LITERALLY said gamma becomes magic when it makes people like Hulks, Ewing had an entire interview where he clearly explained gamma is magic now. Why lie and resist this so much? I don't get it, are you afraid people will start using the Hulk wins against Superman cause magic stuff? Because i can guarantee you wont be able to stop that from happening if people wanna do it, in fact on some of the bigger sites like comicvine that was already brought up lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Superfan90 View Post
    I guess you know better than Ewing does who says it's a quasi magical origin. But ok.
    It's a quasi-magical in the sense that he now introduced a magical origin to something that had a scientific one, i don't want you to lecture me on this when you literally deny that Hulk is magical now in nature despite the literal narration saying gamma is magic when it makes Hulks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Superfan90 View Post
    Quasi magical. Important distinction.
    In what way? What does it change? It's a quasi-magical explanation to his origin that he is basically a magical being now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Superfan90 View Post
    Nothing wrong. But not the right place. I for one want to discuss Hulk here. Not Hulk vs Superman.
    You can discuss Hulk here or in the Superman thread or wherever you want i don't care. And you are not gonna police what i say. So stop derailing the thread already.

    Seriously all of this drama because i made a half-joke about WBH vaporizing Superman with magic lol, something he doesn't even need to obliterate Superman just kinda funny how this would never be in anyone's wildest dreams just a year or so ago.
    Last edited by Intothevoid; 11-03-2019 at 04:07 PM.

  14. #2324
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Good I’m glad he clarified that.

    I watched Ewing’s youtube interview from NYCC again today. He got into what “Hulk syndrome” is in there. Basically Bruce is a DID as a result of childhood trauma. That we pretty much all knew. Its the “why” behind other characters seem to get DID/Hulk-like personas from their own gamma exposure. Like Cho or Rick for ex.

  15. #2325
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrazettaHulk View Post
    I watched Ewing’s youtube interview from NYCC again today. He got into what “Hulk syndrome” is in there. Basically Bruce is a DID as a result of childhood trauma. That we pretty much all knew. Its the “why” behind other characters seem to get DID/Hulk-like personas from their own gamma exposure. Like Cho or Rick for ex.
    I remember someone asking that question on another forum and here's my attempt at a No-Prize:


    Anyways, No Prize time.. I say it's because of Rick's guilt over Bruce saving him from the gamma bomb. He felt he should have been the one turning into the "Hulk" for years. He intentionally tried to become one and ended up getting cancer for his trouble. Capt Marvel died of cancer while Rick lived. The guy SHOULD be a guilt ridden nightmare. You'd have to be mentally unhinged to want to become the Hulk and bombard yourself intentionally with a lethal dose of radiation in the hope of replicating the gamma bomb.

    So yeah, he's got mental issues too. He attaches himself to other heroes and becomes their side kick/takes on other personalities (Bucky, CM, etc) This time due to the gamma, he becomes "Hulk-like". In the current arc, Jones has become a zombie like entity. He knows he should be dead and his new gamma form reflects that.
    So nothing like possession, but gamma picks up on your mental state and heightens it.. I think Gerald Jones raised the idea in Hulk 2099 and I think PAD also touched on it. I think that's why Betty is in the form she's in now.. same as Rick.

    It's why I think Busiek's Hulk arc in Avengers where he turned a whole country into Hulk-Lite was garbage.

    Cho taking on those characteristics was, IMO, like Rick.. he felt guilt for not feeling like the Hulk was a burden.. it slowly crept up on him. Once the doubt set in, it started to manifest more.

    When Jen started feeling guilty/angry over Bruce's death, she similarly underwent a change like Cho did.

    --

    As far as the gamma magic/science thing, I can't remember where I read it (interview?) but it was laid out like it's both. It's science until you can't explain it, and that's when it's magic. Not changing between the two or anything, but rather something akin to pulling from reserves. When strength reaches the limit of what scientifically it can do, gamma lets it go further and accomplish stuff like holding up a mountain/grabbing energy/punching dimensions/etc.

    As for if that's enough for a Superman fight, who knows? It's like it's always been, Hulk can amp up but he usually needs a push to get to that level. A longer fight, and absolutely the "magic" kicks in and we see non-scientific feats, etc.

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