Marvel's Non-Team: Defenders Appreciation 2019

[Reviresco]

Thanks for posting these! I'll try to add them to the first pages of the thread.

[Nomads1]

by John Byrne

Hmm, Avengers vs Defenders. Though the Avengers do seem kind of undergunned there. Say, If my classic line up of Defenders is:
Doc Strange
Hulk
Namor
Silver Surfer
Val
Clea
Nighthawk
Hellcat
Son of Satan
Gargoyle
I wonder what would be s trong Avengers line-up to put against them?
Scarlet Witch (the standard Avengers magic wielder)
Thor (the Avengers biggest muscle)
Wonder Man (as strong if not stronger than Namor, and able to function in vaious environments)
Quasar (the cosmic Avenger)
Capt Marvel (female muscle vs female muscle)
Sersi (another "magic" wielder to put against Doc's former student)
Captain America (Nighthawk WAS his counterpart in the Squadron Sinister)
Black Panther (feline vs feline)
Vision (spook vs spook)
Iron Man (tech might vs mystical might)
How about that?

Not sure who did this one. Will see if I can find more info.

Jim Calafiore. Don't know where it's from, but his style is unmistakable.

Peace

[Lee Stone]

Thanks for posting these! I'll try to add them to the first pages of the thread.

Welcome.
I don't think I had ever seen the '89 update entry before.
Glad it exists because the later New Defenders missed out on the first entry and the team disbanded before the second edition handbook came out.

Btw... does anyone here play the Legendary deckbuilding game?
I noticed that someone made a custom set of Defenders cards.

[McFarlane's Green Hulk]

My guilty pleasure era of the Defenders is #42-100.

[XPac]

Hmm, Avengers vs Defenders. Though the Avengers do seem kind of undergunned there. Say, If my classic line up of Defenders is:
Doc Strange
Hulk
Namor
Silver Surfer
Val
Clea
Nighthawk
Hellcat
Son of Satan
Gargoyle
I wonder what would be s trong Avengers line-up to put against them?
Scarlet Witch (the standard Avengers magic wielder)
Thor (the Avengers biggest muscle)
Wonder Man (as strong if not stronger than Namor, and able to function in vaious environments)
Quasar (the cosmic Avenger)
Capt Marvel (female muscle vs female muscle)
Sersi (another "magic" wielder to put against Doc's former student)
Captain America (Nighthawk WAS his counterpart in the Squadron Sinister)
Black Panther (feline vs feline)
Vision (spook vs spook)
Iron Man (tech might vs mystical might)
How about that?


Jim Calafiore. Don't know where it's from, but his style is unmistakable.

Peace

THe original Defenders were always almost ridiculously overpowered. Having Strange and SUrfer on the same team usually meant they were unbeatable except against a cosmic level threat. It's why a lot of stories didn't have all the Defenders present.

Really, I'd say only Hickmans Avengers line up would be more powerful. A Starbrand and a Captain Universe trumps even a Surfer.

I will say Avengers can even the odds with prep though. Guys like T'Challa and Stark can in theory prep for almost anything.

[Reviresco]

Hmm, Avengers vs Defenders. Though the Avengers do seem kind of undergunned there. Say, If my classic line up of Defenders is:
Doc Strange
Hulk
Namor
Silver Surfer
Val
Clea
Nighthawk
Hellcat
Son of Satan
Gargoyle
I wonder what would be s trong Avengers line-up to put against them?
Scarlet Witch (the standard Avengers magic wielder)
Thor (the Avengers biggest muscle)
Wonder Man (as strong if not stronger than Namor, and able to function in vaious environments)
Quasar (the cosmic Avenger)
Capt Marvel (female muscle vs female muscle)
Sersi (another "magic" wielder to put against Doc's former student)
Captain America (Nighthawk WAS his counterpart in the Squadron Sinister)
Black Panther (feline vs feline)
Vision (spook vs spook)
Iron Man (tech might vs mystical might)
How about that?

That's probably too many for any writer nowadays to handle.

I thought it was supposed to be the Avengers Defenders War, but there are some differences. Val fought Swordsman, IIRC, and Iron Man was against Hawkeye. Black Knight was in stone and an instigator, but not a participant. Also, Namor's outfit is wrong.

Jim Calafiore. Don't know where it's from, but his style is unmistakable.

Peace

Thanks for the identification! I'll add it on.

THe original Defenders were always almost ridiculously overpowered. Having Strange and SUrfer on the same team usually meant they were unbeatable except against a cosmic level threat. It's why a lot of stories didn't have all the Defenders present.

Really, I'd say only Hickmans Avengers line up would be more powerful. A Starbrand and a Captain Universe trumps even a Surfer.

I will say Avengers can even the odds with prep though. Guys like T'Challa and Stark can in theory prep for almost anything.

Silver Surfer wasn't in the Defenders that long. I think that was still while Stan wanted to keep him to himself.

[Reviresco]

Welcome.
I don't think I had ever seen the '89 update entry before.
Glad it exists because the later New Defenders missed out on the first entry and the team disbanded before the second edition handbook came out.

Btw... does anyone here play the Legendary deckbuilding game?
I noticed that someone made a custom set of Defenders cards.

No, I don't play, but I enjoy looking at the cards. Do you have a link?

Legendary doesn't have Defenders as a team?

[XPac]

That's probably too many for any writer nowadays to handle.

I thought it was supposed to be the Avengers Defenders War, but there are some differences. Val fought Swordsman, IIRC, and Iron Man was against Hawkeye. Black Knight was in stone and an instigator, but not a participant. Also, Namor's outfit is wrong.




Thanks for the identification! I'll add it on.





Silver Surfer wasn't in the Defenders that long. I think that was still while Stan wanted to keep him to himself.

Yeah, Surfer never stuck around for very long... though he did sporadically return every now and then usually for the big stuff.

But really you can say that for a lot of the Defenders line up. Guys tended to just sort of show up or leave. For awhile I think you can argue the only core group was Nighthawk, Val and Patsy. All the originals just seemed to cycle in an out... though Hulk actually stuck around a lot too I suppose.

Still, that was part of the fun of the Defenders. You never know who exactly would show up and be a part of the team.

[Phoenixx9]

Welcome.
I don't think I had ever seen the '89 update entry before.
Glad it exists because the later New Defenders missed out on the first entry and the team disbanded before the second edition handbook came out.

Btw... does anyone here play the Legendary deckbuilding game?
I noticed that someone made a custom set of Defenders cards.

No, I don't play that game. But glad to hear the Defenders (the real ones) are included!

THe original Defenders were always almost ridiculously overpowered. Having Strange and SUrfer on the same team usually meant they were unbeatable except against a cosmic level threat. It's why a lot of stories didn't have all the Defenders present.

Really, I'd say only Hickmans Avengers line up would be more powerful. A Starbrand and a Captain Universe trumps even a Surfer.

I will say Avengers can even the odds with prep though. Guys like T'Challa and Stark can in theory prep for almost anything.

I used to hear online how weak the Defenders are, but I always saw them as very powerful, like you do. They may be top-heavy with physical strength characters, but later members round them out.

Yeah, Surfer never stuck around for very long... though he did sporadically return every now and then usually for the big stuff.

But really you can say that for a lot of the Defenders line up. Guys tended to just sort of show up or leave. For awhile I think you can argue the only core group was Nighthawk, Val and Patsy. All the originals just seemed to cycle in an out... though Hulk actually stuck around a lot too I suppose.

Still, that was part of the fun of the Defenders. You never know who exactly would show up and be a part of the team.

They did have stories in the early issues of Defenders with Silver Surfer, and those stories worked! It just takes good, creative writing. Sort of like dealing with Jean Grey Phoenix. Initial stories worked fine, but today's writers....lack the creativity required to make the stories work. Sad, because we lose out on seeing SS with his Defenders friends. I think Norrin felt most at home with the Defenders and did not feel so alone.

[XPac]

No, I don't play that game. But glad to hear the Defenders (the real ones) are included!



I used to hear online how weak the Defenders are, but I always saw them as very powerful, like you do. They may be top-heavy with physical strength characters, but later members round them out.



They did have stories in the early issues of Defenders with Silver Surfer, and those stories worked! It just takes good, creative writing. Sort of like dealing with Jean Grey Phoenix. Initial stories worked fine, but today's writers....lack the creativity required to make the stories work. Sad, because we lose out on seeing SS with his Defenders friends. I think Norrin felt most at home with the Defenders and did not feel so alone.

If we're talking power levels, I don't know how anyone online can say the original Defenders at least were weak. Surfer, Strange and Hulk make them almost unbeatable against anything sort of Galactus. The only reason I think we can't call them overpowered is because most of the heavy hitters aren't always around.

You can argue the book was weak in OTHER areas... but I was a fan.

As far as Norrin feeling he was most at home with the Defenders... I think that was sort of their same. Hulk had the same deal.... big difference compared to him being an Avenger for like 1 issue. They were sort of the outcasts of the MU.

[Lee Stone]

No, I don't play, but I enjoy looking at the cards. Do you have a link?

Legendary doesn't have Defenders as a team?

Here's the link to the custom cards.

As for the official cards...

Hulk was in the Core Set.
Silver Surfer was in the Fantastic Four expansion.
Angel and Iceman were in the Dark City expansion.
Dr. Strange and Namor were in Secret Wars I.
Beast was in Secret Wars II.
An alternate Hulk was in the 3D Promo.
Luke Cage was in Civil War.
Beast returned in the X-Men expansion.

As you can see, aside from the original three, the three X-Men members and the Netflix team, the Defenders are pretty absent from the official cards currently.
But as new expansions are still coming (and there's supposed to be another Dr. Strange film that could boost his popularity more), they could still arrive.

[Phoenixx9]

If we're talking power levels, I don't know how anyone online can say the original Defenders at least were weak. Surfer, Strange and Hulk make them almost unbeatable against anything sort of Galactus. The only reason I think we can't call them overpowered is because most of the heavy hitters aren't always around.

You can argue the book was weak in OTHER areas... but I was a fan.

As far as Norrin feeling he was most at home with the Defenders... I think that was sort of their same. Hulk had the same deal.... big difference compared to him being an Avenger for like 1 issue. They were sort of the outcasts of the MU.

I don't know if they meant when one or more were gone, such as Namor and SS, but I always found them to be be a very powerful team!

I think every member found solace at one time or another within the Defenders: Hulk, Namor, SS, Valkyrie, Nighthawk, Tanya Red Guardian and Luke Cage Power Man. Even Doc Strange and Clea found themselves feeling at home amongst this group of friends which felt like family.

[XPac]

I don't know if they meant when one or more were gone, such as Namor and SS, but I always found them to be be a very powerful team!

I think every member found solace at one time or another within the Defenders: Hulk, Namor, SS, Valkyrie, Nighthawk, Tanya Red Guardian and Luke Cage Power Man. Even Doc Strange and Clea found themselves feeling at home amongst this group of friends which felt like family.

It's sort of funny that in later versions of the team, the original 4 Defenders at least couldn't seem to stand each other. It wasn't such a huge issue in the original book, but they made it a sort of theme for them in later volumes.

[Reviresco]

Looks like there is going to be a classic Nighthawk action figure!



From Toy Fair 2019

[SilverScarlet]

Lost track of what Nighthawk is up to, and Val is attached to AOTG, but I wouldn't mind see a Defenders book return with Val, Kyle and Patsy at the core, plus the Big Four coming and going in various groupings!