Marvel's Non-Team: Defenders Appreciation 2019

[ImperiusWrecked]

Heh. Yes, that's been a debate for a few of the teams. But the mantle of being a "non-team" tends to bring in a lot of different iterations of the team. I guess that's a good discussion -- what makes a team The Defenders?

For me personally I feel its only a Defenders team if one of the founders are on it, most especially Doctor Strange, he just always felt like the leader to me. Surfer, Namor, and Hulk were kinda just there because they had to/wanted to be and left when they needed/wanted to, but Strange's Sanctum was like the base.

[Reviresco]

For me personally I feel its only a Defenders team if one of the founders are on it, most especially Doctor Strange, he just always felt like the leader to me. Surfer, Namor, and Hulk were kinda just there because they had to/wanted to be and left when they needed/wanted to, but Strange's Sanctum was like the base.

I agree, on the Doctor Strange part. It just isn't a Defenders team without him, to me. A lot of the early stories, he's the one that called them together. And he gave the team the magical and sometimes quirky stories. Of course, I'm biased and like the trio of Strange, Hulk and Namor.

[Reviresco]

Touching more on what makes a Defenders team; I think more importantly, what makes a successful Defenders team? Why can't we get a successful ongoing? I had high hopes for the Fraction and Dodson run, and yet it didn't make it. Though, honestly, I think there might have been more stuff going on behind the scenes that sabotaged that book. I have a hard time believing that in this era, a QUIRKY, and I think Defenders was a quirky book, can't succeed.

[Ptrvc]

Touching more on what makes a Defenders team; I think more importantly, what makes a successful Defenders team? Why can't we get a successful ongoing? I had high hopes for the Fraction and Dodson run, and yet it didn't make it. Though, honestly, I think there might have been more stuff going on behind the scenes that sabotaged that book. I have a hard time believing that in this era, a QUIRKY, and I think Defenders was a quirky book, can't succeed.

I think it could work with weirder vibe. The Defenders could be quirky, but many of there stories were serious.

But they were always weird.

I'd say give the Defenders a heavy action vibe, and jump headlong into the fantastic. Strange Cults, Alien Worlds, Alternate Dimensions that are fundamentally different from our own.

Play it for genuine horror at times.

What they should avoid is trying to anchor themselves to the real world to much. Hulk, Namor, Strange, and the Surfer are all characters that buck the "Spider-Man" model of balancing the mundane with the fantastic.

They jump headlong into the fantastic. Embrace that.

[Phoenixx9]

For me, I call "The Defenders" Doc Strange, Silver Surfer, Namor, and Hulk. But I also include the Valkyrie, since she joined in issue #4.

I like Nighthawk and Hellcat on the team, but I also enjoy many of the various guest-stars that have appeared.

[Reviresco]

For me, I call "The Defenders" Doc Strange, Silver Surfer, Namor, and Hulk. But I also include the Valkyrie, since she joined in issue #4.

I like Nighthawk and Hellcat on the team, but I also enjoy many of the various guest-stars that have appeared.

I agree. Valkyrie and Nighthawk were definitely core Defenders. As much as I like Namor and the Hulk, they would move in and out of the book and had other identities and teams. But Val and Nighthawk and Dr. Strange were fairly constant in the Defenders.

[Reviresco]

I think it could work with weirder vibe. The Defenders could be quirky, but many of there stories were serious.

But they were always weird.

I'd say give the Defenders a heavy action vibe, and jump headlong into the fantastic. Strange Cults, Alien Worlds, Alternate Dimensions that are fundamentally different from our own.

Play it for genuine horror at times.

What they should avoid is trying to anchor themselves to the real world to much. Hulk, Namor, Strange, and the Surfer are all characters that buck the "Spider-Man" model of balancing the mundane with the fantastic.

They jump headlong into the fantastic. Embrace that.

Yes! And I thought Fraction was heading in that direction in his run, though, maybe a little slowly and scattered and maybe not quite as fantastic. But he seemed to get distracted and it became something of a mess rushing toward an ending.

I wonder who could do something like that now?

[Ptrvc]

Yes! And I thought Fraction was heading in that direction in his run, though, maybe a little slowly and scattered and maybe not quite as fantastic. But he seemed to get distracted and it became something of a mess rushing toward an ending.

I wonder who could do something like that now?

I think Ewing proved he could do it. Donny Cates might also work.

What really doesn't work is Bendis-Style. Mundane scenes, street level focus, modern speech patterns etc.

Defenders couldn't work in the Bendis-Era because they are exactly the opposite. Crazy visuals, High Power, Bombastic Idiosyncratic Speech. (Seriously, put a classic Hulk, Namor, Surfer, or Strange monologue up and try and confuse it with anyone else. Or Valkyrie with any none Asgardian.)

Instead we got the Heroes for Defending. Fine if you like that, but not my thing.

No that we're starting to come out of that a bit, maybe we'll get a Defender book

[Reviresco]

I think Ewing proved he could do it. Donny Cates might also work.

What really doesn't work is Bendis-Style. Mundane scenes, street level focus, modern speech patterns etc.

Defenders couldn't work in the Bendis-Era because they are exactly the opposite. Crazy visuals, High Power, Bombastic Idiosyncratic Speech. (Seriously, put a classic Hulk, Namor, Surfer, or Strange monologue up and try and confuse it with anyone else. Or Valkyrie with any none Asgardian.)

Instead we got the Heroes for Defending. Fine if you like that, but not my thing.

No that we're starting to come out of that a bit, maybe we'll get a Defender book

Good point. I guess that's one reason why I didn't feel that the Netflix or the Bendis' book were Defenders. They just seemed like Heroes Four Hire, taking up the Defenders name.

And now that you mention it, I think that applies to the art also. I think it is going to require something less realistic looking and ... stiff. Something more baroque and less graphic design.

I haven't read much by either Cates or Ewing. I did read the Doctor Strange Damantion trade, and it was a bit bombastic, but .... it didn't quite work for me, for some reason. Read it in trade though, so that might have had something to do with it also. I did enjoy Ewing's Best Defense book, and there was definitely some weird and out there stuff that I just had to roll with, like the Train. Maybe. I'll definitely have to read more by him.

I'm wondering if the mini-series format would work out for the next year or two for the Defenders?

[XPac]

I agree. Valkyrie and Nighthawk were definitely core Defenders. As much as I like Namor and the Hulk, they would move in and out of the book and had other identities and teams. But Val and Nighthawk and Dr. Strange were fairly constant in the Defenders.

I honestly ended up associating Val, Patsy, and Kyle with the Defenders more than the Surfer or Namor because they were more constant. At least to my recollection.

It was the second tier members whom I felt ended up becoming the heart and soul of the group.

[Reviresco]

I honestly ended up associating Val, Patsy, and Kyle with the Defenders more than the Surfer or Namor because they were more constant. At least to my recollection.

It was the second tier members whom I felt ended up becoming the heart and soul of the group.

Even though he was there early on, we don't see much more of Silver Surfer -- which is probably why I found his appearance in the Giffen, Dematteis and Maguire Defenders mini-series amusing. But yes, Valkyrie and Kyle and later, Hellcat were definitely core Defenders.

[Phoenixx9]

Even though he was there early on, we don't see much more of Silver Surfer -- which is probably why I found his appearance in the Giffen, Dematteis and Maguire Defenders mini-series amusing. But yes, Valkyrie and Kyle and later, Hellcat were definitely core Defenders.

I loved that cover logo--those 4 faces are done right!

I think Surfer stories need special care for a cosmic character having earthly adventures.

Doc Strange should be added to our 4 above. Namor should be a member, but might not be in every issue, as he has Atlantean duties.

[Reviresco]

I loved that cover logo--those 4 faces are done right!

I think Surfer stories need special care for a cosmic character having earthly adventures.

Doc Strange should be added to our 4 above. Namor should be a member, but might not be in every issue, as he has Atlantean duties.

They did rotate the characters on the corner boxes -- and I love those corner boxes! I think a lot of them were done by the great Johnny Romita -- he was art director for a while at Marvel, besides his penciling skills.

They definitely needed to save Surfer for the COSMIC storylines. I think Defenders was one of the first times that Stan Lee let someone else write the character.

[Ying Ko]

I've been reading through the Defenders Masterworks and just finished vol 2 last night.

So far it's been so-so but kinda seems to be getting more into focus around the Avengers-Defenders war.

My question is, when does it start to get really good? I've never read most of these stories before.

[Phoenixx9]

I've been reading through the Defenders Masterworks and just finished vol 2 last night.

So far it's been so-so but kinda seems to be getting more into focus around the Avengers-Defenders war.

My question is, when does it start to get really good? I've never read most of these stories before.

What issues are in Vol 2?