Marvel's Non-Team: Defenders Appreciation 2019

[Ying Ko]

What issues are in Vol 2?

The Defenders #7–16, Giant-Size Defenders #1, The Avengers #115–118

[Phoenixx9]

The Defenders #7–16, Giant-Size Defenders #1, The Avengers #115–118

Thanks!

For me, the very best-est issues ever were 1-12. There was some real Magic to them! You have a lot of those issues in Vol 2. Sorry you did not love them.

Then I loved 13-50. #20-45 were really good! #50 final Fight with Zodiac LMDs! I thought Val was going to kill a few of them (but she did not)!

60-115. I loved #64 where we see Val's full power as she throws a man up to airplane sky level! A feat of Wonder Woman-level strength! "Friend and foe beware-the Valkyrie gone mad!"

Some later issues had guest stars, which was nice and fun.

Then, to me, after that, all magic was completely lost!

[Reviresco]

I've been reading through the Defenders Masterworks and just finished vol 2 last night.

So far it's been so-so but kinda seems to be getting more into focus around the Avengers-Defenders war.

My question is, when does it start to get really good? I've never read most of these stories before.

I guess that depends on what you consider "good?"

The book was different things at various times. I loved the first year or so because of the line up and the whole NOT the Avengers / non-team thing. Also, arguably, the Avengers Defenders War was Marvel's first event -- it was pretty amazing, if you read it when it was coming out, as I did. When Gerber came on, it became more quirky, or as Ptrvc said, weird. It was more like a watercooler book. And then David Kraft came on, with a different twist, and then J.M. DeMatteis -- so there was plenty of good, IMO, but it was different, depending on the writer.

Here's a columnist at Comics Bulletin that considers the Gerber run the best.

Top 10 1970s Marvels
Jason Sacks
September 7, 2010


1. Defenders (Steve Gerber / Sal Buscema)

What, I hear you say. How could I rank a comic like Defenders above the Claremont/Byrne X-Men when the comic sold a mere fraction of what the mutant book sold?

Simple. This comic was amazing.

YouÂ’ve already read about my great love for Steve GerberÂ’s work on Omega the Unknown, GerberÂ’s grand attempt at creating a fascinating and transgressive satire of super-hero work. But whereas that series was a satire of DC comics, GerberÂ’s work on Defenders was something much more subtle and interesting: a fascinating journey to the logical conclusion of the ideas and approaches that Stan Lee created in his comics.

Where Stan developed the idea that super-heroes should have deep flaws, Gerber took that idea to its logical conclusion. StanÂ’s heroes had disabilities, but those disabilities were physical (Daredevil) or emotional (Spider-Man). GerberÂ’s heroes, however, faced existential doubts about their abilities and their abilities to be great heroes. They faced devastating attacks that hit to the very core of who they were, attacks that brought a kind of profound existential angst that made these heroes seem so much more human.

ThereÂ’s no member of the Defenders more emblematic of that approach than Kyle Richmond, the hero known as Nighthawk. Created as a kind of satire of Batman, Kyle Richmond was a millionaire who put on a rocket pack in an effort to fight crime. But for all his attempts to be an ersatz Batman, RichmondÂ’s life was just too messy and complicated to allow him to become the hero that he wanted to become.

Richmond faced a whole series of events that destroyed his ego. KyleÂ’s girlfriend nearly died when his car was the victim of a car bomb attack. Very quickly thereafter he found that his financial advisor, a black man, had betrayed Richmond to a group similar to the KKK. Not long afterwards, his brain was removed from his body and placed first in a jar and then into the body of a deer. All the while Richmond was aware of everything that happened to him and was feeling completely estranged from his life.

I donÂ’t want to spoil too much of what happens in these comics since you can pick up all of these comics in the Essential format. But suffice it to say that RichmondÂ’s existential problems are only a small part of the craziness that makes these comics so transcendently amazing. Really, if youÂ’ve never read these comics, you must. TheyÂ’re as great as any comics that have ever been released by any comic company.

http://comicsbulletin.com/top-10-1970s-marvels/

[Lee Stone]

I've been reading through the Defenders Masterworks and just finished vol 2 last night.

So far it's been so-so but kinda seems to be getting more into focus around the Avengers-Defenders war.

My question is, when does it start to get really good? I've never read most of these stories before.

For me, it would be the Six-Fingered Hand storyline.
But I discovered that long after the series had ended.

I first started reading Defenders with the Squadron Supreme story, so I was only around for a couple years before they became the New Defenders and it was one of the hardest titles to find issues of in my town.
I do remember being excited for the New Defenders. The covers were really good and a few of the new members were pretty new to me at the time.
Unfortunately, it didn't last.

[Ken Ashcroft]

My definitive Defenders lineup would be

Dr Strange
Sub-Mariner
Hulk
Valkyrie
Nighthawk
Hellcat

[Lee Stone]

Based on where I came into the Defenders (around #108) and what I read...
My definitive team would be:

Dr. Strange
Valkyrie
Hellcat
Nighthawk
Gargoyle
Beast

Mainly because they were the more prominent members when I was reading.

[Ying Ko]

Thank you for your responses.

The Defenders appears to be a book that I can actually finish. I've tried to do that with Fantastic Four, Uncanny X-Men and Avengers before, but simply could not because it felt too dated and boring in the early issues. Last time I could finish a complete run was with Excalibur.

I am really looking forward to the addition of Daimon Hellstrom into the book. He's one of my favorite characters.

[Reviresco]

Thank you for your responses.

The Defenders appears to be a book that I can actually finish. I've tried to do that with Fantastic Four, Uncanny X-Men and Avengers before, but simply could not because it felt too dated and boring in the early issues. Last time I could finish a complete run was with Excalibur.

I am really looking forward to the addition of Daimon Hellstrom into the book. He's one of my favorite characters.

Oh, then you'll definitely like those issues, with him and Patsy.

Excalibur is great! And now that I think about it, they and the Defenders share a certain ... oddness, that makes the stories fresh, regardless of the times, and not dated. I enjoy the FF and the Avengers, but they are very much of their time periods. I haven't gone back and read Claremont's X-Men, but I wouldn't think they would be that dated -- well, except in Claremont's endless prose. LOL!

[Reviresco]

My definitive Defenders lineup would be

Dr Strange
Sub-Mariner
Hulk
Valkyrie
Nighthawk
Hellcat

Based on where I came into the Defenders (around #108) and what I read...
My definitive team would be:

Dr. Strange
Valkyrie
Hellcat
Nighthawk
Gargoyle
Beast

Mainly because they were the more prominent members when I was reading.

I think both are classic line ups.

[Reviresco]

For me, it would be the Six-Fingered Hand storyline.
But I discovered that long after the series had ended.

I first started reading Defenders with the Squadron Supreme story, so I was only around for a couple years before they became the New Defenders and it was one of the hardest titles to find issues of in my town.
I do remember being excited for the New Defenders. The covers were really good and a few of the new members were pretty new to me at the time.
Unfortunately, it didn't last.

I didn't recall all the covers, but went looking and yes! There was talent on those New Defenders covers, from Kevin Nowlan to Mike Mignola and Frank Cirrocco. And of course, this gem from Bill Sienkiewicz.

[Lee Stone]

I really liked this one...



Of course, there were a few covers that weren't so hot...

[Reviresco]

I really liked this one...



Of course, there were a few covers that weren't so hot...

Nice!

Yes, but looking at those New Defenders covers, I think most of them were actually quite good. I wonder what Frank Cirocco is doing now? Didn't he also do Alien Legion? I loved that book.

[Triniking1234]

I was cleaning out my room and found some issues of Secret Defenders I bought on a whim. Haven't opened them though.

[Reviresco]

I was cleaning out my room and found some issues of Secret Defenders I bought on a whim. Haven't opened them though.

I'd love to clean out my room and find some comics!

I haven't read those, but I got the feeling that they were very 90s. I think they are putting them out in trade now.

[Reviresco]

Some Defenders fanart from the previous thread:


by Doc Shaner



by John Byrne




by John Byrne