Marvel's Non-Team: Defenders Appreciation 2019

[Nomads1]

If we're talking power levels, I don't know how anyone online can say the original Defenders at least were weak. Surfer, Strange and Hulk make them almost unbeatable against anything sort of Galactus. The only reason I think we can't call them overpowered is because most of the heavy hitters aren't always around.

You can argue the book was weak in OTHER areas... but I was a fan.

As far as Norrin feeling he was most at home with the Defenders... I think that was sort of their same. Hulk had the same deal.... big difference compared to him being an Avenger for like 1 issue. They were sort of the outcasts of the MU.

There was a time, after Doc Strange left, when. IMHO, the team became relatively weak (as much as any team counting the Hulk among its ranks can be called weak). They were Nighthawk, Hellcat, a weaker Val (when she was inhabiting Barbara Norris and not in her fully asgardian body), and the Hulk. The Zodiac saga, around #50, is one of my favorite Defenders sagas, however, I always found it'd have been more exciting if it had been done with a larger and more powerful line-up.

Peace

[XPac]

Lost track of what Nighthawk is up to, and Val is attached to AOTG, but I wouldn't mind see a Defenders book return with Val, Kyle and Patsy at the core, plus the Big Four coming and going in various groupings!

I believe the last time we saw the real Defenders Nighthawk was during Fear Itself, when he was part of a small group of heroes dealing with Swamp Thing.

We saw a Skrull impersonate him in the JMS Nighthawk book.

But yeah... most of the core Defenders outside of the 4 originals I believe are mostly available. I don't know if they could sustain an on-going, but it would be cool to know they at least were still a team

[Phoenixx9]

Looks like there is going to be a classic Nighthawk action figure!



From Toy Fair 2019

That is a great looking classic Nighthawk!

[Phoenixx9]

There was a time, after Doc Strange left, when. IMHO, the team became relatively weak (as much as any team counting the Hulk among its ranks can be called weak). They were Nighthawk, Hellcat, a weaker Val (when she was inhabiting Barbara Norris and not in her fully asgardian body), and the Hulk. The Zodiac saga, around #50, is one of my favorite Defenders sagas, however, I always found it'd have been more exciting if it had been done with a larger and more powerful line-up.

Peace

I think they made Val seem weak in general on a regular basis- than what her true strength level allowed-- but there were some exceptions.

For instance, the Val-Barbara Valkyrie went up against the Hulk many times, easily ripped a tire off a car and pummeled Hulk with it, kicked down the Avengers Mansion front door, totally demolishing it, went up against a revitalized Wonder Man and threw a man to the height of an airplane in flight!

I always believed both Val-Barb and Valkyrie are much stronger than what writers always show and that the handbook entry of 45 tons was really for the Val-Barb amalgam, not the true Valkyrie. Brunhilde Valkyrie should be like 90 tons strong.

[XPac]

There was a time, after Doc Strange left, when. IMHO, the team became relatively weak (as much as any team counting the Hulk among its ranks can be called weak). They were Nighthawk, Hellcat, a weaker Val (when she was inhabiting Barbara Norris and not in her fully asgardian body), and the Hulk. The Zodiac saga, around #50, is one of my favorite Defenders sagas, however, I always found it'd have been more exciting if it had been done with a larger and more powerful line-up.

Peace

A lot of the time I honestly prefered it when the book focused on Kyle, Patsy, and Val. With Hulk there for comic relief. It just seemed like a more character driven story. When the big guns like Surfer and Strange were around, it usually means some sort of world threatening demonic threat... which is fun in it's own right, but less personal.

Never understood why they killed Kyle off. Pointless less which took away some of the heart of the group.

[Lee Stone]

For me, Defenders was the main comic that tapped into the '70s fascination with supernatural horror and the occult, with Dr. Strange, Clea, Hellstorm, Hellcat and Gargoyle each providing their own story opportunities.

[Nomads1]

I think they made Val seem weak in general on a regular basis- than what her true strength level allowed-- but there were some exceptions.

For instance, the Val-Barbara Valkyrie went up against the Hulk many times, easily ripped a tire off a car and pummeled Hulk with it, kicked down the Avengers Mansion front door, totally demolishing it, went up against a revitalized Wonder Man and threw a man to the height of an airplane in flight!

I always believed both Val-Barb and Valkyrie are much stronger than what writers always show and that the handbook entry of 45 tons was really for the Val-Barb amalgam, not the true Valkyrie. Brunhilde Valkyrie should be like 90 tons strong.

I agree. Val-Barb was kind of erratic strength-wise. She was trading swords swings with Swordsman in one issue, easily knocked down b y lesser threats in another, and going toe to toe with the Hulk and Namor in another. However, while Ful-Asgardian Val was clearly shown as bigger and stronger than Val-Barb, she should have been at the very least in the 70 tons range, which was what She-Hulk was at the time. Probably more.
Still, my criticism stands, the Kyle, Patsy, Val-Barb and Hulk line-up was weaker than what the Defenders usually presented us with.

Peace

[Phoenixx9]

I agree. Val-Barb was kind of erratic strength-wise. She was trading swords swings with Swordsman in one issue, easily knocked down b y lesser threats in another, and going toe to toe with the Hulk and Namor in another. However, while Ful-Asgardian Val was clearly shown as bigger and stronger than Val-Barb, she should have been at the very least in the 70 tons range, which was what She-Hulk was at the time. Probably more.
Still, my criticism stands, the Kyle, Patsy, Val-Barb and Hulk line-up was weaker than what the Defenders usually presented us with.

Peace

I agree with your critism of the team of Nighthawk, Hellcat, Hulk and Val-Barb often coming across as weaker than other line-ups. I was not disagreeing with you on this point, but only mentioning Barb-Val should have been shown as stronger (which she was) which then would have beefed up the entire team.

[Nomads1]

I agree with your critism of the team of Nighthawk, Hellcat, Hulk and Val-Barb often coming across as weaker than other line-ups. I was not disagreeing with you on this point, but only mentioning Barb-Val should have been shown as stronger (which she was) which then would have beefed up the entire team.

Sure. I got that.

Peace

[pageturner]

I only occasionally read it when it was focused on the big four. When Val Nighthawk and a few other were upfront I read it more often.

[Reviresco]

A lot of the time I honestly prefered it when the book focused on Kyle, Patsy, and Val. With Hulk there for comic relief. It just seemed like a more character driven story. When the big guns like Surfer and Strange were around, it usually means some sort of world threatening demonic threat... which is fun in it's own right, but less personal.

Never understood why they killed Kyle off. Pointless less which took away some of the heart of the group.

When did they kill Kyle off???

[Nomads1]

When did they kill Kyle off???

Towards the end of the original run. #106 I think it was. They really put Kyle through the ringer in those days. I don't know if it's true or not, but JM DeMattis didn't seem to like Kyle very much. First he seemed to cripple Kyle for good, then he could only function at night, I think he also lost his fortune around that time, and then he was killed trying to help a former lover ( the details are a bit vague in my mind). They brought him back in a different costume a few issues , but it ended up being the Nighthawk/ Kyle Richmond of the Squadron Supreme thinking he was our Kyle Richmond (the Squadron Sinister's one), and our Kyle's death was finally confirmed. Of course, as common in comics, they brought him back years later.

Peace

[XPac]

Towards the end of the original run. #106 I think it was. They really put Kyle through the ringer in those days. I don't know if it's true or not, but JM DeMattis didn't seem to like Kyle very much. First he seemed to cripple Kyle for good, then he could only function at night, I think he also lost his fortune around that time, and then he was killed trying to help a former lover ( the details are a bit vague in my mind). They brought him back in a different costume a few issues , but it ended up being the Nighthawk/ Kyle Richmond of the Squadron Supreme thinking he was our Kyle Richmond (the Squadron Sinister's one), and our Kyle's death was finally confirmed. Of course, as common in comics, they brought him back years later.

Peace

It's funny how so many of the second tier Defenders (Kyle, Val, Patsy, Gargoyle) died and came back later. For a group that was around for so long, they sure didn't seem all that over with the writers at marvel for a long perod of time.

[616MarvelYear is LeapYear]

Why no mention of the roster based on the Netflix miniseries?

We do not believe in that?!?

To me, they are not "The Defenders". They are impisters that need to be defeated by the true heroes!

To me , they are not impisters. Instead, to me, they have ever been "Marvel Knights"!

[Immortal Hulk]

I hope we'll see more Defenders' minis from Ewing and cia., much like the ones from the Avengers (NS, NWR)! There's so much weirdness you can do with this team!