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  1. #181
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuteNimrod View Post
    But why would anybody bring her back if she doesn't bring nothing that other characters don't do better in a less problematic way?
    The character dynamics that can be played off. No other character can have the same dynamic with Jean or Cable that Maddie has bc of their unique history. You keep looking at her as a function as opposed to a character. If they can have Kwannon and Psylocke coexist when Kwannon was barely even a character 30 years ago and their history is even more convoluted, then I dont see why Maddie would be so problematic to have around

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    The character dynamics that can be played off. No other character can have the same dynamic with Jean or Cable that Maddie has bc of their unique history. You keep looking at her as a function as opposed to a character. If they can have Kwannon and Psylocke coexist when Kwannon was barely even a character 30 years ago and their history is even more convoluted, then I dont see why Maddie would be so problematic to have around
    Betsy and Kwannon can exist because they don't share any connections, Jean and Maddie do, In fact theirs totally overlap.

  3. #183
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuteNimrod View Post
    Betsy and Kwannon can exist because they don't share any connections, Jean and Maddie do, In fact theirs totally overlap.
    As it stands, everything about Kwannon is tied to Betsy. Its false to say they share no connections as her character doesnt have any identity or unique motifs. They can and hopefully will flesh her out in FA but thats not the case yet. Maddie and Jean do have overlap but they arent the same and again Maddie has unique relationships that cant be done with Jean

  4. #184
    Fantastic Member houndsofluv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuteNimrod View Post
    Betsy and Kwannon can exist because they don't share any connections, Jean and Maddie do, In fact theirs totally overlap.
    Betsy occupied Kwannon’s body for how many years? that’s the definition of overlap. But that’s all semantics, point is they could bring back Maddie in a way that doesn’t harm any character’s integrity....this is all just fan conjecture anyways lol

  5. #185
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    Spiral merged the two bodies together into two bodies that were not fully Betsy or fully Kwannon, so neither occupied the others body...at least not fully...and the body that Kwannon is in now isn't even her own old one anyway, it's the one that Betsy's brother made for Betsy...

  6. #186
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    No one really got Maddy except Claremont, his Maddy is the one that made me care for the character. I liked her enough in X-Man and in Mutant X (but even they didn't feel like my Maddy) none of her other incarnation ever felt like Outback era Maddy (one note woman scorned), if someone isn't going to write her like Claremont did I don't know how much I can invest in it. The pilot, the fighter, the healer and yes the Goblin Queen.

  7. #187
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    The problem with that is that under Claremont, Maddie was a Jean consolation prize. For her to be back and have viability, she needs to not be written like Claremont had her.

  8. #188
    Fantastic Member houndsofluv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    The problem with that is that under Claremont, Maddie was a Jean consolation prize. For her to be back and have viability, she needs to not be written like Claremont had her.
    this! we don’t want her to be a contrivance either but to be fleshed our even further, made a character in her own right rather than “jeans clone”/“Scott’s ex”. imo that’d be better for all three of them and untangle a lot of retcon-induced character mangling but to each their own

  9. #189
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    Maddie came back when Jean wasn´t Phoenix. By the time it was decided to make Jean Phoenix made was totally out of the picture. She was only brought back more recently when Adult Jean was dead and it was just Jeen. I think as Phoenix Jean tends to overshadow (and there´s no way Maddie could fight Phoenix Jean) so any appearance Maddie makes had better be before Marvel decides to make Jean Phoenix.

    Though honestly, I don´t think we will ever have Maddie around in a serious way. The new XMen line up is about the Grey/Summers family. Jean is mommy to WiFi and Rachel. Obviously if you´re writing a team family book having the clone ex wife turned demon queen around isn´t going to work unless she´s there as a villain, and even that only lasts until they decide Jean´s Phoenix again. Marvel is reimaging X-Men for the MCU and they may decide to leave Maddie out of it. Just as they decided to make Elizabeth Braddock white again and the New Captain Britain (future Captain Britain movie or MCU appearances) and Kwannon is now Psylocke (Asian Psylocke popularized by video games and other appearances, plus the comics of course and the crappy Fox XMen).

  10. #190
    Mighty Member Thievery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by houndsofluv View Post
    agreed, the woman scorned angle is passé in all media in general...im ready to see her demonic anger “updated” if you will. And yeah NO scott just yet please lol
    I don't mind reading occasional stories about woman or men becoming obsessed with the man or woman who turned them down and becoming stalky villains. It does happen in real life. I just prefer that they try and take Maddie in a different direction. And as I said, without Scott and Jean.
    Scott would benefit from not being around Maddie as well. He's had Maddie and Emma as sort of "woman scorned" stories. He needs a break from this as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    they've interacted on panel a few times
    Sorry for the late response. Thanks for posting those panels. They were helpful.

    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    Maddie came back when Jean wasn´t Phoenix. By the time it was decided to make Jean Phoenix made was totally out of the picture. She was only brought back more recently when Adult Jean was dead and it was just Jeen. I think as Phoenix Jean tends to overshadow (and there´s no way Maddie could fight Phoenix Jean) so any appearance Maddie makes had better be before Marvel decides to make Jean Phoenix.

    Though honestly, I don´t think we will ever have Maddie around in a serious way. The new XMen line up is about the Grey/Summers family. Jean is mommy to WiFi and Rachel. Obviously if you´re writing a team family book having the clone ex wife turned demon queen around isn´t going to work unless she´s there as a villain, and even that only lasts until they decide Jean´s Phoenix again. Marvel is reimaging X-Men for the MCU and they may decide to leave Maddie out of it. Just as they decided to make Elizabeth Braddock white again and the New Captain Britain (future Captain Britain movie or MCU appearances) and Kwannon is now Psylocke (Asian Psylocke popularized by video games and other appearances, plus the comics of course and the crappy Fox XMen).
    The new X-Men line up is just supposed to be temporary, I believe. The series is meant to have some sort of rotating cast.

    I hope that you are wrong about Maddie not returning because Marvel wants to make the X-Men comics more like the MCU, but I could see it happening. I do think that Maddie could still appear in the comics regardless however. I haven't watched many of the MCU movies, but from what I recall, they don't line up 100% with the comics.

  11. #191
    mutant and proud ermac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    The problem with that is that under Claremont, Maddie was a Jean consolation prize. For her to be back and have viability, she needs to not be written like Claremont had her.
    I can't see another viable role for Maddie besides villain / Goblin Queen...
    Kind of hoping to see Madame Frost, Ambassador of Krakoa, humiliating Mr. President of Brazil during a UN meeting

    I'm reading: Batman - Daredevil - East of West - Friendly Neighborhood Spiderman - Immortal Hulk - Runaways

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by ermac View Post
    I can't see another viable role for Maddie besides villain / Goblin Queen...
    I do, as a rival, right now all the X-books/teams seem to all be under the same banner, following the same playbook. Maddie could easily be a member of a rival faction that while heroes are at odds with the main team's philosophy, like Alpha Flight back in the day or X-Factor and X-Force later on. Alex Summers (Havok) could also benefit from this type of situation because in general he gets the short end of the stick when compared to Scott. He and Maddy are a lot alike in that way. I actually prefer Alex and Maddy to Scott and Jean by a lot but most writers or TPTB don't share that opinion. I don't think of either character as lesser than, just different, and actually different in a way that I find more engaging/enjoyable to their more reserved counterparts.
    Last edited by EmeraldGladiator; 08-09-2019 at 07:41 AM.

  13. #193
    Fantastic Member houndsofluv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmeraldGladiator View Post
    I do, as a rival, right now all the X-books/teams seem to all be under the same banner, following the same playbook. Maddie could easily be a member of a rival faction that while heroes are at odds with the main team's philosophy, like Alpha Flight back in the day or X-Factor and X-Force later on. Alex Summers (Havok) could also benefit from this type of situation because in general he gets the short end of the stick when compared to Scott. He and Maddy are a lot alike in that way. I actually prefer Alex and Maddy to Scott and Jean by a lot but most writers or TPTB don't share that opinion.
    Agreed, there’s definitely a place for her character just maybe not on a flagship team. My fingers are crossed she shows up in fallen angels since that seems to be where the “outsiders” are converging lol. If writers have time to explore + develop her character the sky’s really the limit
    Last edited by houndsofluv; 08-09-2019 at 07:44 AM.

  14. #194
    Fantastic Member houndsofluv's Avatar
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    hope that you are wrong about Maddie not returning because Marvel wants to make the X-Men comics more like the MCU, but I could see it happening. I do think that Maddie could still appear in the comics regardless however. I haven't watched many of the MCU movies, but from what I recall, they don't line up 100% with the comics.
    I feel like she’d fit into the MCU fine if they were trying to do a Sinister storyline...other than that there wouldn’t be much point for her in the movies. Not sure how much the current books are trying to set up an MCU status quo anyways to be perfectly honest, Hickman’s run so far seems too new if that makes sense. If they’re willing to take on completely different storylines that the casual viewer or reader isn’t familiar with though power to them

  15. #195
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    you are right they can't do Jean right so why even get to Phoenix or Maddy.

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