Madelyne Pryor: Red Queen Appreciation 2019

[JudicatorPrime]

A true redemption arc would leave Madelyne in a heroic light...or at least a neutral light. Clones rarely get that kind of treatment. Whenever she appears it will be either as the villain, or the feint of a greater villain. The only way to avoid that is if you remove Maddy from the X-Men universe altogether. I know I'm being repetitive here, but I'd almost kill to see Madelyne on a team with a few other characters who have been written off as damaged, beyond redemption, or simply not worth the bother. A heroic team outside of the X-universe. I can almost see Scott's face now, waking up to read the online paper on his tablet and seeing Maddy's smiling face under the headline: "The Earth's Mightiest New Faces! Avengers outreach closes the global divide."

[Decoy]

A true redemption arc would leave Madelyne in a heroic light...or at least a neutral light. Clones rarely get that kind of treatment. Whenever she appears it will be either as the villain, or the feint of a greater villain. The only way to avoid that is if you remove Maddy from the X-Men universe altogether. I know I'm being repetitive here, but I'd almost kill to see Madelyne on a team with a few other characters who have been written off as damaged, beyond redemption, or simply not worth the bother. A heroic team outside of the X-universe. I can almost see Scott's face now, waking up to read the online paper on his tablet and seeing Maddy's smiling face under the headline: "The Earth's Mightiest New Faces! Avengers outreach closes the global divide."

That would work......get her out of the X Orbit, have her on the Avengers as say a pilot (after proving she’s seeking redemption)

[Decoy]

In the “Should Jean have stayed dead after Dark Phoenix “ thread i theorized a somewhat better alternative......just have Madelyn be retconned as Jean reincarnated, amnesiac/ Powers dormant until her memories return (probably tease that something was up when Nathan was born), have her fully remember around X-Factor #1, decide to continue to be Madelyn, but (Scott, Hank, Warren and Bobby know the truth,) she now had her Marvel Girl Powers.....but she maybe acts behind the scenes at times while she raises Nathan with Scott until Nathan is older, there, no Clone Drama, no Cyclops the Cad, Jean Grey is still dead (technically) no Inferno, no 3 Personalities in Jean’s Head, and half the Cyclops bashing wouldn’t exist.....

[FUBAR007]

At this point, redeeming Madelyne would mean a retcon such that: 1) the Goblin Queen was a demon that either possessed her or replaced her; 2) the "psychic ghost" that's been running around since Nate Grey pulled her out of the astral plane in the mid-90s is NOT the real Madelyne, but the Goblin Queen demon; 3) the real Madelyne has either been dead since she accepted S'ym's offer of power before Inferno OR remained a reabsorbed part of Jean's mind since the end of Inferno.

[Omega Alpha]

At this point, redeeming Madelyne would mean a retcon such that: 1) the Goblin Queen was a demon that either possessed her or replaced her; 2) the "psychic ghost" that's been running around since Nate Grey pulled her out of the astral plane in the mid-90s is NOT the real Madelyne, but the Goblin Queen demon; 3) the real Madelyne has either been dead since she accepted S'ym's offer of power before Inferno OR remained a reabsorbed part of Jean's mind since the end of Inferno.

Yeah; besides the whole thing with Inferno, in Fraction's run she actually raped Scott making him think she was Emma (and Fraction kinda played if for the giggles rather than being a dramatic and traumatizing event); it would have to be a massive, Busiek in Avengers Forever style of retcon.

[JudicatorPrime]

Yeah; besides the whole thing with Inferno, in Fraction's run she actually raped Scott making him think she was Emma (and Fraction kinda played if for the giggles rather than being a dramatic and traumatizing event); it would have to be a massive, Busiek in Avengers Forever style of retcon.

I think you have to build forward, because it definitely triggers a cascading array of retcons if reworking Maddy's history is mishandled.

Then again, it doesn't take much to convince me that Loki wasn't telling the whole truth about the Fire Fountain (which may have indeed been a taproot of the mystical World Tree, Yggdrasil, after all) and the Anodyne persona (which was probably the purest manifestation of Maddy's true soul). Just as an irresistible force and an immovable object cannot occupy the same space simultaneously, I'd also buy into the concept that being possessed by the heinously vile Goblin Force sent Maddy's pure soul back to the Fire Fountain. It's waiting for her there still. If Maddy would be completely quiet and still for a moment, she might hear it calling to her. Redemption starts with her returning to the Fire Fountain.

Somebody cue the blizzard machines as we glimpse Maddy trudging north to the Arctic Circle to reclaim her lost soul. Goblins, wraiths, shadows, beasts and bogeys of every manner fast on her heels!

And a few clicks behind that dreadful horde ... Maddy's new teammates.

[Decoy]

The interesting thing is, when I started reading, Madelyn was gone for a few years at that point.....I didn’t really know much, as trades are sporadic of that time period (Epic Collections are helping, but it seems to be based on popular eras/ characters/ creators)

[Decoy]

Madelyn has of late (since her recent return) been seen as the psycho ex.....depending on the writers at least......sometimes her original personality is there, other times she’s just another X Villian.......time would tell if Hickman or one of the other writers in his era use her (assuming she doesn’t pop up in Uncanny before July)......would she try another revenge scheme, would she try to live off the grid like Kaine Parker......there you go, partner her with Kaine......two clones made by two different mad scientists obsessed with cloning, on the road.....

[Havok83]

Madelyn has of late (since her recent return) been seen as the psycho ex.....depending on the writers at least......sometimes her original personality is there, other times she’s just another X Villian.......time would tell if Hickman or one of the other writers in his era use her (assuming she doesn’t pop up in Uncanny before July)......would she try another revenge scheme, would she try to live off the grid like Kaine Parker......there you go, partner her with Kaine......two clones made by two different mad scientists obsessed with cloning, on the road.....

As of late? I feel like thats always been her narrative since Inferno 30 years ago

[JudicatorPrime]

As of late? I feel like thats always been her narrative since Inferno 30 years ago

It is. Maddy reminds me of the original Drax. Drax was created by Kronos for a single purpose. Maddy was created by Sinister, also with a single purpose. Both were automatons in that sense -- soulless slaves to their programming. Drax is now more popular than ever, thanks to a new direction and creative team. The same could work for Madelyne. But first they have to ditch the crazy scorned ex/ termagant narrative. Maddy could really be something special, too. And in ways that Jean can't, because Jean is forever stuck inside of the X-universe.

And now that I think of it, I guess that's my next answer to that one Team-Up thread in the Marvel forum.

[Huntsman Spider]

Maddy, Drax, Kaine, and throw in Ben Reilly, too, since he also has experience with going apocalyptically insane and nearly ending the world as we know it, as well as being considered too damaged or tainted to be worth redeeming as a character. Hell, let's think of Ben's line in Spider-Geddon #5 as he's about to die for what he thinks is the last and final time and reflecting on what he became after the Jackal's experiments in conquering death through more advanced methods of cloning, "But I emerged damaged. And damaged people damage others." That line actually rings very true in light of Madelyne's life story, which is why I like the idea of teaming her and Ben together, and it would be a great avenue to refresh both of their characters after all the hell they've been through.

[Decoy]

Maddy, Drax, Kaine, and throw in Ben Reilly, too, since he also has experience with going apocalyptically insane and nearly ending the world as we know it, as well as being considered too damaged or tainted to be worth redeeming as a character. Hell, let's think of Ben's line in Spider-Geddon #5 as he's about to die for what he thinks is the last and final time and reflecting on what he became after the Jackal's experiments in conquering death through more advanced methods of cloning, "But I emerged damaged. And damaged people damage others." That line actually rings very true in light of Madelyne's life story, which is why I like the idea of teaming her and Ben together, and it would be a great avenue to refresh both of their characters after all the hell they've been through.

2 Clones on the road of redemption......both damaged by circumstances beyond their control and have creator issues.......that could be a interesting read.......get them both out of their separate orbits (X and Spider)......maybe occasionally meeting with other clones X-23/ Honey Badger and Kaine.....

[JudicatorPrime]

Maddy teaming up with another clone isn't a terrible idea, but I'd like to avoid a situation where we're just creating more pockets of tribalism in the Marvel Universe. What, with the Inhumans, Eternals, X-Men and others all basically being homogenous groups more or less, we're just begging for more persecution stories rife with closed, in-group ideology and posturing.

A fresher approach for Maddy would be to completely bury the fact that she is a clone. I'd probably even go as far as to raise suspicion about Sinister's role in Maddy's origin. It's one of the biggest paradoxes in comics. Everyone accepts the villain's word as the gospel truth. The dastardly villain who'd steal candy from a baby. They monologue for days and we always believe them. Why? I say we should question all of it. Even the most noble person is capable of telling a great lie. I'd have fun with portraying Maddy in a way that makes readers wonder whether or not the "C" word ("clone") truly applies to her. They might call her divergent. Or a black swan anomaly. Or a quantum entangled apparition. But never the "C" word without thinking twice, nay, three times!

Off topic: aside from her Goblin Queen costume, does Maddy really have a signature design? I've thought about drawing her as Anodyne, but that costume is heinous...I just can't. Respect for Paul Smith, but that has to be one of the ugliest outfits that I've ever seen on an X character.

[KangMiRae]

Maddy teaming up with another clone isn't a terrible idea, but I'd like to avoid a situation where we're just creating more pockets of tribalism in the Marvel Universe. What, with the Inhumans, Eternals, X-Men and others all basically being homogenous groups more or less, we're just begging for more persecution stories rife with closed, in-group ideology and posturing.

A fresher approach for Maddy would be to completely bury the fact that she is a clone. I'd probably even go as far as to raise suspicion about Sinister's role in Maddy's origin. It's one of the biggest paradoxes in comics. Everyone accepts the villain's word as the gospel truth.

I'm confident House of X and Powers of X will incorporate Sinister and his experiments regarding mutants. Especially after Hickman's tweet about Sinister and mutantkind. If he goes with that tangent, maybe he'll bring Maddy back into the mix—who knows what he can write her into.

[Anodyne]

So, who would try to redeem Madelyn writer wise? And how? As far as many in then know are aware, she was a clone that rapidly descended into madness in her rage.........however if her forerunner can be retconned as to never had wiped out a populated star system and a Shi’ar Cruise, due to the Phoenix taking her identit......., if Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, Captain Marvel, Spider-Man, etc could have a redemption story, who’s to say Madelyn can’t have one.......if a writer can think of a way to reintroduce her as a ally/ hero, not as a sometimes unstable super villain ex she’s been.....perhaps if some writer also moves her on from the whole Summers Family Crap, as well as Sinister....... has her find something that won’t eventually worsen her mental state (assuming she hasn’t by now found some degree of normalcy and happiness that doesn’t involve trying to get revenge on her ex, her ex’s friends, the woman she was cloned from who her ex still loved, her kid, etc.......)

Claremont wrote Maddie an alt-world redemption story in X-Men --the End. But will the PTB let him--or any writer--do one in the 616?

A true redemption arc would leave Madelyne in a heroic light...or at least a neutral light. Clones rarely get that kind of treatment. Whenever she appears it will be either as the villain, or the feint of a greater villain. The only way to avoid that is if you remove Maddy from the X-Men universe altogether. I know I'm being repetitive here, but I'd almost kill to see Madelyne on a team with a few other characters who have been written off as damaged, beyond redemption, or simply not worth the bother. A heroic team outside of the X-universe. I can almost see Scott's face now, waking up to read the online paper on his tablet and seeing Maddy's smiling face under the headline: "The Earth's Mightiest New Faces! Avengers outreach closes the global divide."

I'd buy that.

At this point, redeeming Madelyne would mean a retcon such that: 1) the Goblin Queen was a demon that either possessed her or replaced her; 2) the "psychic ghost" that's been running around since Nate Grey pulled her out of the astral plane in the mid-90s is NOT the real Madelyne, but the Goblin Queen demon; 3) the real Madelyne has either been dead since she accepted S'ym's offer of power before Inferno OR remained a reabsorbed part of Jean's mind since the end of Inferno.

Wolverine suggested something like that during Inferno, when he told Havok, "That ain't the Madelyne you remember! Our Madelyne had her problems, sure, but that thing's a demon conjuring. It's what stole her away from you!" (quoted from memory)

I think you have to build forward, because it definitely triggers a cascading array of retcons if reworking Maddy's history is mishandled.

Then again, it doesn't take much to convince me that Loki wasn't telling the whole truth about the Fire Fountain (which may have indeed been a taproot of the mystical World Tree, Yggdrasil, after all) and the Anodyne persona (which was probably the purest manifestation of Maddy's true soul). Just as an irresistible force and an immovable object cannot occupy the same space simultaneously, I'd also buy into the concept that being possessed by the heinously vile Goblin Force sent Maddy's pure soul back to the Fire Fountain. It's waiting for her there still. If Maddy would be completely quiet and still for a moment, she might hear it calling to her. Redemption starts with her returning to the Fire Fountain.

Somebody cue the blizzard machines as we glimpse Maddy trudging north to the Arctic Circle to reclaim her lost soul. Goblins, wraiths, shadows, beasts and bogeys of every manner fast on her heels!

And a few clicks behind that dreadful horde ... Maddy's new teammates.

Scott himself observed that the Firefountain's gifts reflected basic aspects of the recipients lives and personalities.

Madelyn has of late (since her recent return) been seen as the psycho ex.....depending on the writers at least......sometimes her original personality is there, other times she’s just another X Villian.......time would tell if Hickman or one of the other writers in his era use her (assuming she doesn’t pop up in Uncanny before July)......would she try another revenge scheme, would she try to live off the grid like Kaine Parker......there you go, partner her with Kaine......two clones made by two different mad scientists obsessed with cloning, on the road.....

I'd say Ben Riley, since I don't know Kaine.

A fresher approach for Maddy would be to completely bury the fact that she is a clone. I'd probably even go as far as to raise suspicion about Sinister's role in Maddy's origin. It's one of the biggest paradoxes in comics. Everyone accepts the villain's word as the gospel truth. The dastardly villain who'd steal candy from a baby. They monologue for days and we always believe them. Why? I say we should question all of it. Even the most noble person is capable of telling a great lie. I'd have fun with portraying Maddy in a way that makes readers wonder whether or not the "C" word ("clone") truly applies to her. They might call her divergent. Or a black swan anomaly. Or a quantum entangled apparition. But never the "C" word without thinking twice, nay, three times!

Sinister isn't even consistent about Maddie's origin. In one version, he made her after Jean's apparent death. In another version, Madelyne was already grown to physical adulthood; and Sinister was about to take her off life support when she awakened crying out Scott's name.

Here's a theory: The Phoenix Force said, "I gave Madelyne life." What if the PF found Maddie, not in Sinister's lab, but in the cockpit of a crashed and burning plane? Sensing a passion for life that matched Jean's, the PF took the dying pilot's soul/essence and implanted it in the inert clone body. The problem with that, IMHO, is that it dodges the issue of prejudice against clones. Has any Marvel writer actually come out and said, Clones have souls"?