Young Justice Appreciation 2019 (TV show and comic)

[Shamrock Holmes]

I doubt that five years would be enough for Jennifer, but Anissa looks like she might be about the same age as Artur/Aquababy who is about 7 in YJO so would be about the same age that Dick was in the pilot c. Y18 or 19.

[Confuzzled]

Okay so I'm a little confused. Was the Vandal Savage/Darkseid meeting shown earlier supposed to have taken place AFTER Granny's defeat? Or did Savage convince Darkseid in a second meeting? Also, how did he: 1.) Convince Darkseid that HE was to be forgiven and 2.) Make Granny the scapegoat? Darkseid's unfairness and cruelty shown towards Granny here has shades of the recently concluded Female Furies mini.

[9th.]

I'm highly disappointed that Batman Inc didn't get much focus especially Jason, Steph, and Tim. Although at the same time I'm glad because all things Batman related get a lot of focus. They need to make a spin-off, there's enough meat there to make another show. I also need to see DickBats animated in my lifetime.

[Frontier]

Okay so I'm a little confused. Was the Vandal Savage/Darkseid meeting shown earlier supposed to have taken place AFTER Granny's defeat? Or did Savage convince Darkseid in a second meeting? Also, how did he: 1.) Convince Darkseid that HE was to be forgiven and 2.) Make Granny the scapegoat? Darkseid's unfairness and cruelty shown towards Granny here has shades of the recently concluded Female Furies mini.

I think Darkseid was going to punish Granny either way because she utterly failed and cost Apokolips a lot of resources (they lost two Furies). It just provided an added incentive to smooth things over with Savage since she initiated kidnapping Halo and kicking in the Anti-Life Equation.

I'm highly disappointed that Batman Inc didn't get much focus especially Jason, Steph, and Tim. Although at the same time I'm glad because all things Batman related get a lot of focus. They need to make a spin-off, there's enough meat there to make another show. I also need to see DickBats animated in my lifetime.

I think the Batman Inc. kids definitely got the short end of the stick this season. They only really got a small segment in one episode to showcase them.

Which sucks since we have the animated debut of Arrowette, Spoiler, and Cassandra Cain and the show ends up doing nothing with them. Traci 13 got more screentime then them and that's saying something.

[Godlike13]

Harper Row got more focus, hehehe...

[Jackalope89]

Still, wonder why R'as was no longer with the Light. And going forward, depending on the time jump, Jason Todd could play a role in the next season (with his memories returning). What role, I don't know.

[Frontier]

Still, wonder why R'as was no longer with the Light. And going forward, depending on the time jump, Jason Todd could play a role in the next season (with his memories returning). What role, I don't know.

He was probably kicked out because he lost control of the League to Deathstroke after his death in season 2.

Without his army he's really not much of a resource for The Light.

[Lukmendes]

Okay so I'm a little confused. Was the Vandal Savage/Darkseid meeting shown earlier supposed to have taken place AFTER Granny's defeat? Or did Savage convince Darkseid in a second meeting? Also, how did he: 1.) Convince Darkseid that HE was to be forgiven and 2.) Make Granny the scapegoat? Darkseid's unfairness and cruelty shown towards Granny here has shades of the recently concluded Female Furies mini.

Yeah, it's after Granny's defeat, can't be before because her telling Darkseid that Vandal is the reason why she lost the Anti-Life Equation is why he was called for the meeting.

As for why Darkseid decided to keep the alliance, I'm pretty sure it's just **** writing, Vandal is the reason Darkseid lost the Anti-Life Equation to begin with, it makes zero sense why he'd let Vandal get away with nothing happening, and a properly written Darkseid wouldn't do that.

There's a possibility that Darkseid is doing some 4D chess level of strategies though, there's no hints towards that, by YJ loves its villains to have unreasonably good plans, so maybe Darkseid is just yet another boring super pragmatic villain with barely any personality in YJ.

As for Granny being punished, that's just Darkseid being Darkseid, fail him minimaly and he punishes you, fail him like she did, he punishes you, though again, Vandal should be there too, since he's the reason she failed, and I doubt fucking over the other is part of the alliance (Specialy since in another episode, Vandal requested Darkseid's help, so Vandal is just being ungrateful, and it's obvious he did that to make sure Darkseid doesn't have too much of an advantage for their final battle).

[gwhh]

Which comic issue is this from?

[Frontier]

Yeah, it's after Granny's defeat, can't be before because her telling Darkseid that Vandal is the reason why she lost the Anti-Life Equation is why he was called for the meeting.

As for why Darkseid decided to keep the alliance, I'm pretty sure it's just **** writing, Vandal is the reason Darkseid lost the Anti-Life Equation to begin with, it makes zero sense why he'd let Vandal get away with nothing happening, and a properly written Darkseid wouldn't do that.

There's a possibility that Darkseid is doing some 4D chess level of strategies though, there's no hints towards that, by YJ loves its villains to have unreasonably good plans, so maybe Darkseid is just yet another boring super pragmatic villain with barely any personality in YJ.

As for Granny being punished, that's just Darkseid being Darkseid, fail him minimaly and he punishes you, fail him like she did, he punishes you, though again, Vandal should be there too, since he's the reason she failed, and I doubt fucking over the other is part of the alliance (Specialy since in another episode, Vandal requested Darkseid's help, so Vandal is just being ungrateful, and it's obvious he did that to make sure Darkseid doesn't have too much of an advantage for their final battle).

A part of me thinks Vandal and Darkseid are secretly best buds and that's why this blew over as much as it did .

Yeah, I don't think there was anything special about Darkseid punishing Granny. I think it's been implied he's done the same thing to Desaad before.

[Darkcrusade25]

Which comic issue is this from?

YJ 1 2019 Variant

[Pohzee]

Yeah, it's after Granny's defeat, can't be before because her telling Darkseid that Vandal is the reason why she lost the Anti-Life Equation is why he was called for the meeting.

As for why Darkseid decided to keep the alliance, I'm pretty sure it's just **** writing, Vandal is the reason Darkseid lost the Anti-Life Equation to begin with, it makes zero sense why he'd let Vandal get away with nothing happening, and a properly written Darkseid wouldn't do that.

There's a possibility that Darkseid is doing some 4D chess level of strategies though, there's no hints towards that, by YJ loves its villains to have unreasonably good plans, so maybe Darkseid is just yet another boring super pragmatic villain with barely any personality in YJ.

As for Granny being punished, that's just Darkseid being Darkseid, fail him minimaly and he punishes you, fail him like she did, he punishes you, though again, Vandal should be there too, since he's the reason she failed, and I doubt fucking over the other is part of the alliance (Specialy since in another episode, Vandal requested Darkseid's help, so Vandal is just being ungrateful, and it's obvious he did that to make sure Darkseid doesn't have too much of an advantage for their final battle).

I'd like to clarify why I think that this was not a case of "**** writing."

As I understand it, Vandal Savage made a gamble by sending the team after Halo. He could not let Darkseid have the ALE, so he sent the team to stop them. But, he hedges his bets by telling them to announce that he sent them. By all means the team he sent fo Granny failed and were enslaved by the ALE. Savage could easily explain this to Darkseid as manipulating the Team to send Darkseid more superpoweres slaves.

It was Cyborg who acted independently of Savages plans who freed Halo and the heroes. This had nothing to do with Savage. So from Darkseid's PoV, Savage tried to send him more soldiers, but it was Granny who screwed up.

It's Savage playing the chess here, but it's not obscure or convoluted. It's actually pretty smart.

[Lukmendes]

A part of me thinks Vandal and Darkseid are secretly best buds and that's why this blew over as much as it did .

You joke, but it's a possibility, or at the very least, Darkseid really respects Vandal, since him starting some alliance with someone, it means Darkseid will backstab them eventualy, not a question of "if", just "when", and "how badly", however, this Darkseid hasn't shown any backstabbing traits so far, or even a hint towards it, though he barely had screen time too... But if YJ Darkseid is supposed to really be like any Darkseid, then he really, really needs to be best buddies with Vandal to keep this alliance after season 3 lol.

Yeah, I don't think there was anything special about Darkseid punishing Granny. I think it's been implied he's done the same thing to Desaad before.

I think Desaad is shown to be scared of him, that doesn't exactly mean torture, but even if it didn't happen, that fear at least raises the possibility that it can happen.

I'd like to clarify why I think that this was not a case of "**** writing."

As I understand it, Vandal Savage made a gamble by sending the team after Halo. He could not let Darkseid have the ALE, so he sent the team to stop them. But, he hedges his bets by telling them to announce that he sent them. By all means the team he sent fo Granny failed and were enslaved by the ALE. Savage could easily explain this to Darkseid as manipulating the Team to send Darkseid more superpoweres slaves.

It was Cyborg who acted independently of Savages plans who freed Halo and the heroes. This had nothing to do with Savage. So from Darkseid's PoV, Savage tried to send him more soldiers, but it was Granny who screwed up.

It's Savage playing the chess here, but it's not obscure or convoluted. It's actually pretty smart.

If Vandal's bet is all about "I want Darkseid to believe that I sent the Team as gifts to Darkseid", then Darkseid would need to be really, really dumb to believe it, it doesn't work because Granny clearly saw the other heroes arriving on her ship without warning (And if Darkseid is supposed to believe it was a trap, then he can't miss that Vandal should've warned them) attacking her, trying to free everyone else, and they clearly say "If you're wondering how we found you, Vandal sent us and wanted you to know", which clearly means betrayal, so there's no reason to doubt that Vandal was backstabbing Darkseid from his point of view.

Of course, ultimately it was Cyborg who freed everyone else, but the Team being sent there to begin with shows Vandal's intentions, even small attempts at betrayal are bad enough, but this was a big attempt, and there's no way Vandal would believably manage to plan on Cyborg managing to do all of that, specialy since if he believed that Cyborg would manage to do all of this, then sending the Team and risking his alliance with Darkseid would've been an useless risk.

That being said, I'll make a correction on what I said on the previous post, as I said bullshit, since I mentioned that Vandal was just being ungrateful as Darkseid had only been helpful, but when Granny gets the Anti-Life Equation in episode 22, Ultra Humanite says that she "overplayed her hand" (Something I admitedly forgot about, and that line is a big deal), and when Vandal mentions his conversation with Darkseid in episode 26, he says there was a "mutual sense of betrayal", and that they found common ground on something, and then it shows Granny being tortured, so basicaly Granny is taking the blame for everything, her actions were the "betrayal" on Darkseid's side, and it can be argued that it "forced" Vandal to go against their conditions too since Granny is the one who started it so Vandal had to reply in kind, so it's not as bad as I thought, from a purely logical point of view, the alliance staying actualy makes sense, as it shows that there'll only be a betrayal if someone else betrays first, which is fair, so it's just **** writing if you consider Darkseid's usual characterization, as there's no way he'd ever accept someone else's betrayal, specialy if it makes him lose the Anti-Life Equation.

[Confuzzled]

Yeah, I'd think all bets would be off once the Anti-Life Equation was part of the conversation. It's too big a loss for Darkseid to shrug off as just "fairplay", and realistically, the Apokoliptians don't really need to hold onto an ally as unpredictable and destructive as Vandal Savage after this betrayal. I think Vandal should have suffered some consequences, not letting him have it takes away the bite from an otherwise perfectly fine finale.

[Lukmendes]

Yeah, I'd think all bets would be off once the Anti-Life Equation was part of the conversation. It's too big a loss for Darkseid to shrug off as just "fairplay", and realistically, the Apokoliptians don't really need to hold onto an ally as unpredictable and destructive as Vandal Savage after this betrayal. I think Vandal should have suffered some consequences, not letting him have it takes away the bite from an otherwise perfectly fine finale.

Yeah, that's why I said it only makes sense in a logical point of view, since it's just fairplay considering that, but, y'know, it's just boring to have super pragmatic characters who are okay to accept such huge losses since it's the most logical route, since keeping the alliance means he'll still have allies on Earth with important positions, which is better for the long term, but it makes them not have a personality (It's why I don't care much for The Light, and Kaldur'ahm), since a proper Darkseid would never accept any sort of betrayal, even if it's not pragmatic to have revenge, but hey, YJ does like to overwank its villains and not let 'em have any real negative consequences.

An easy example of the lack of negative consequences is in season 3 itself, we have that magician dude (I can never remember his name lol), Zatanna managed to trap him in Dr. Fate's tower, which he couldn't escape from no matter what, that could be a huge blow on the Light to lose one of its main members, but he inexplicably managed to escape as we see him in later episodes when the Light is having those reunions, and I can only wonder why since he never does anything for the rest of the season, so basicaly, while the heroes managed to rescue those kidnaped teenagers, trapping that guy does nothing since he escaped anyways, it wouldn't be much of a problem if it happened occasionaly, or even semi consistently, but the Light so constantly gets no negative consequences, it's annoying... I also doubt that episode 26 will really do anything bad for Luthor, since usualy the Light manages to get away with **** anyways, and Vandal doesn't even sound worried, as he says that Lex should fix it as casualy as one would say "Hey, go grab a cup of coffee", but hey, I'd be glad if I'm wrong about this in season 4...

And yeah, I really don't see why Darkseid started an alliance with Vandal to begin with, I headcanon it's impatience, since if you conquer half of the universe, and someone else conquers the other half, then it's faster to get the whole thing, since it's a "winner gets all" situation, but there's also the huge detail that fighting someone who managed to conquer half of the universe would be really, really hard and you'd probably have even more losses, so even considering it is weird, unless Darkseid is doing some 4D chess ****...