Young Justice Appreciation 2019 (TV show and comic)

[Mojo]

Going forward,Terra has the most potential storylines.

I haven't seen someone to this NUCLEAR and get consumed by a list for revenge since the Metal Gear franchise.

And now your making me picture Geo-Force going on a Metal Gear villain speech.

Yeah unless there's a really really big time skip Terra and Conner seem set up to be central cast in S4, with the Markov family drama continuing with the fall of Brion (yes he was manipulated and the control seemed stronger later but the desire to kill Bedlam and usurp Gregor to become King came from him if what the guy says about his powers only being able to really nudge is true) and Tara has to deal with THAT, along with her own personal demons and becoming a true hero (that was a really interesting subversion, not something I expected at ALL, like I saw Terra probably turning on Slade but not the full subversion of the Markov siblings with TARA being the one who's basically a fundamentally good person even after everything she's been through and Brion being flawed enough to fall the way he did).

Conner is a public hero now so that's a major change obviously, and with the Legion of Superhero's coming and well Superboy is always involved with them, not Conner before but well there's no other Superboy around here so I suspect he'll play a major role in whatever storyline is going on with the Legion, wonder if it's gonna be travel to the Legions time, some Legionarres coming back to ours or both. And which ones will they use there's a LOT to choose from with the Legion.

and RIP Slobo that was.. a weird thing to do all for a giant audience troll.

[Jackalope89]

And now your making me picture Geo-Force going on a Metal Gear villain speech.

Yeah unless there's a really really big time skip Terra and Conner seem set up to be central cast in S4, with the Markov family drama continuing with the fall of Brion (yes he was manipulated and the control seemed stronger later but the desire to kill Bedlam and usurp Gregor to become King came from him if what the guy says about his powers only being able to really nudge is true) and Tara has to deal with THAT, along with her own personal demons and becoming a true hero (that was a really interesting subversion, not something I expected at ALL, like I saw Terra probably turning on Slade but not the full subversion of the Markov siblings with TARA being the one who's basically a fundamentally good person even after everything she's been through and Brion being flawed enough to fall the way he did).

Conner is a public hero now so that's a major change obviously, and with the Legion of Superhero's coming and well Superboy is always involved with them, not Conner before but well there's no other Superboy around here so I suspect he'll play a major role in whatever storyline is going on with the Legion, wonder if it's gonna be travel to the Legions time, some Legionarres coming back to ours or both. And which ones will they use there's a LOT to choose from with the Legion.

and RIP Slobo that was.. a weird thing to do all for a giant audience troll.

We literally saw Jason Todd, but it was a cameo appearance, with little else and big question remaining about why R'as and family are no longer with the Light.

[Lee]

spoilers:

I suspect that they were planning to introduce Slobo next season, but changed their minds once Lobo's daughter Crush was introduced in the comics. I was surprised by Magog being mentioned, I don't think he'd been alluded to before. They're cleverly seeding a bunch of "next generation" DC heroes: The Tornado Twins (Flash's kids), Thunder and Lightning (Black Lightning's kids), Superboy (Jon Kent), Robin (Damian Wayne), Rhea Duncan (Bumblebee's daughter - an original character?). Looking forward to seeing what they do with the Legion of Super-Heroes. Maybe Wally West ended up in the future with them?

end of spoilers

[Frontier]

I've had a strange relationship with the Young Justice cartoon from the beginning. There's so much to love about this show, but my problems with it always keep it at an arm's distance from me.

I really appreciate how deep the show digs into the morality of the superhero community over the ethics of what is the right or wrong course of action. It's important to show that these people are fallible enough to make mistakes, but are willing to own up to them, change, and become better heroes. Drama comes from seeing protagonists fail, pick themselves up again and try again to succeed. In this respect, Young Justice has succeeded, particularly because its main characters are meant to be still learning the ropes.

However, this moral ambiguity has repeatedly left the adult heroes of the Justice League looking ineffectual, or worse, morally compromised. My guess is this is why Superman's role within the League has been so minimized throughout the show, because there's no way to reconcile a properly written Superman with how this show's League has been portrayed. The in-story explanation is presumably that he's too busy raising his new son with Lois to notice that the League is such a useless mess, but that doesn't really make Wonder Woman or the rest of the League come off any better. Batman being portrayed as a manipulative asshat isn't new, unfortunately.

The show's embrace of the sheer vast scope of the DCU is something not seen since the heyday of the DCAU with JLU. Hell, it's even surpassed the DCAU in terms of how much time this show's multi-generational superhero history spans. On the other hand, the show is just so relentlessly unfunny. When it's not trying to be dour, the attempts at humor or levity are often downright painful.I'm not expecting Young Justice to be a carbon copy of the DCAU, but, while that incarnation of DC's animated continuity had its own problems, it was, above all else, genuinely fun most of the time, whereas Young Justice takes itself so damned seriously, it comes off as pretentious more often than not.

I dunno. I really want to love the show, which is why I keep watching, but my problems with it have remained. Maybe the idea of having Black Lightning come in as chairman to course correct the League will fix that issue, and maybe the producers could bring in some new people into the writers room who can punch up the scripts with jokes that aren't so cringe-inducing.

I think the show is as humorous as it needs to be. Characters who are humorous are still humorous and usually get the best jokes in, and there's enough levity in there when needed without going MCU overboard with the jokes.

Of course, humor is subjective...

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I think the show is as humorous as it needs to be. Characters who are humorous are still humorous and usually get the best jokes in, and there's enough levity in there when needed without going MCU overboard with the jokes.

Of course, humor is subjective...

Definitely. If the humor on YJ is actually making you laugh, more power to you.

Also, I'd agree that most of the overtly comedic character are at least making attempts to be funny (sometimes successfully), with the notable exceptions of both Superman and Superboy. I know that this show is leaning more towards the darker clone of Supes/Lex incarnation that Johns & McKone introduced in their Teen Titans revival, but, even then, Conner wasn't so painfully serious all the time. And their Superman, when he does show up, is so blandly serious and stern, he doesn't feel like the character at all aside from the costume. Superman makes cheesy jokes. That's been his thing since the beginning. Hell, even Batman is known for his dry sense of humor.

Yet this show has none of that. It's a show about teenagers in colorful costumes fighting equally ridiculously attired bad guys, but the show too often acts like its actually this serious drama about serious people doing serious things. It's ridiculous. It's like trying to pretend a pop tart is health food.

This isn't to say that you can't take superhero stories seriously, but you also can't forget that you are making a superhero story. This was the mistake that Zack Snyder's DCEU made, and I think it's the biggest flaw of the YJ cartoon as well.

To be fair, the show does try to do fun, lighter and more humorous episodes, but the jokes just weren't that funny.

[Jackalope89]

Definitely. If the humor on YJ is actually making you laugh, more power to you.

Also, I'd agree that most of the overtly comedic character are at least making attempts to be funny (sometimes successfully), with the notable exceptions of both Superman and Superboy. I know that this show is leaning more towards the darker clone of Supes/Lex incarnation that Johns & McKone introduced in their Teen Titans revival, but, even then, Conner wasn't so painfully serious all the time. And their Superman, when he does show up, is so blandly serious and stern, he doesn't feel like the character at all aside from the costume. Superman makes cheesy jokes. That's been his thing since the beginning. Hell, even Batman is known for his dry sense of humor.

Yet this show has none of that. It's a show about teenagers in colorful costumes fighting equally ridiculously attired bad guys, but the show too often acts like its actually this serious drama about serious people doing serious things. It's ridiculous. It's like trying to pretend a pop tart is health food.

This isn't to say that you can't take superhero stories seriously, but you also can't forget that you are making a superhero story. This was the mistake that Zack Snyder's DCEU made, and I think it's the biggest flaw of the YJ cartoon as well.

To be fair, the show does try to do fun, lighter and more humorous episodes, but the jokes just weren't that funny.

Superboy and Icicle Junior talking like old friends when they fought. I don't care who you are, that was hilarious.

[Agent Z]

It really does feel like the "too serious" argument is often thrown at anything more serious than a saturday morning cartoon and what doesn't feel the need to undercut the story with incessant humor. The complaint is becoming a cliche in its own right.

[ironman2978]

It really does feel like the "too serious" argument is often thrown at anything more serious than a saturday morning cartoon and what doesn't feel the need to undercut the story with incessant humor. The complaint is becoming a cliche in its own right.

Agreed, the one thing that works for YJ is that the humor doesn't feel forced or overdone, like other cartoons, it comes naturally. The stakes are serious, so the characters treat it as such. Not every cartoon has to be a Teen Titans or TT Go! just like not every cartoon has to be a Batman the Animated Series. Superman still has a sense of humor but it comes dependent on the situation.

[dswynne]

Superboy and Icicle Junior talking like old friends when they fought. I don't care who you are, that was hilarious.

Or when everyone was arguing with everyone else, while Cyborg and Forager were eating popcorn nonchalantly. THAT was funny.

BTW, I want to see more Marvel Family on this show, even if it is a cameo.

[Godlike13]

So I’m binging, on ep 21 now. I have to say the random shout outs so far have been hilarious.

[Bruce Wayne]

We literally saw Jason Todd, but it was a cameo appearance, with little else and big question remaining about why R'as and family are no longer with the Light.

I thought it was because Deathstroke usurped him when he got killed at the end of season 2 and essentially took his spot (Slade had wanted to join the Light's governing council in season 2).

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Agreed, the one thing that works for YJ is that the humor doesn't feel forced or overdone, like other cartoons, it comes naturally. The stakes are serious, so the characters treat it as such. Not every cartoon has to be a Teen Titans or TT Go! just like not every cartoon has to be a Batman the Animated Series. Superman still has a sense of humor but it comes dependent on the situation.

I can't think of a single joke from Superman on YJ. Granted, he's barely appeared on the show, so it's not like he's had many opportunities, but, when he does show up, I'd like to see him acting more like Superman, who is supposed to be a warm, friendly, and funny guy. He just doesn't feel like Superman to me, and that's a big problem considering how important Superboy is to the show.

If the attempts at humor work for you, that's perfectly fine, but it falls flat for me and I'd like to see them course correct on that front. Given what they've teased for the next season, I think it's likely things will lighten up a tad, hopefully.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

It really does feel like the "too serious" argument is often thrown at anything more serious than a saturday morning cartoon and what doesn't feel the need to undercut the story with incessant humor. The complaint is becoming a cliche in its own right.

It's a cliche because it still happens too often. I think there's a happy medium with superhero stories between taking things seriously and not taking them seriously enough. You can certainly go dark places with these characters, but it's got to be balanced with enough levity otherwise the whole thing becomes a bit pretentious.

Even with a dark and brooding character like Batman, there's got to be some moments of genuine humor to acknowledge the ridiculousness of it all. He's a rich guy dressed in a skintight bat-costume beating the crap out of the mentally ill. Yes, the stakes have to feel real, and the characters need to treat them as such, but the writers also need to remember how outrageous the whole idea is, otherwise you end up with Zack Snyder's DCEU. Getting that balance is awfully tricky though. Too far in either direction, you can end up with garbage that appeals to only a small segment of the audience.

Obviously, Young Justice is working with enough people that it's doing something right, but I think there's still room for improvement.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Superboy and Icicle Junior talking like old friends when they fought. I don't care who you are, that was hilarious.

Which episode was that? I'll have to go back and check that out again. Thanks

[Vordan]

It's a cliche because it still happens too often. I think there's a happy medium with superhero stories between taking things seriously and not taking them seriously enough. You can certainly go dark places with these characters, but it's got to be balanced with enough levity otherwise the whole thing becomes a bit pretentious.

Even with a dark and brooding character like Batman, there's got to be some moments of genuine humor to acknowledge the ridiculousness of it all. He's a rich guy dressed in a skintight bat-costume beating the crap out of the mentally ill. Yes, the stakes have to feel real, and the characters need to treat them as such, but the writers also need to remember how outrageous the whole idea is, otherwise you end up with Zack Snyder's DCEU. Getting that balance is awfully tricky though. Too far in either direction, you can end up with garbage that appeals to only a small segment of the audience.

Obviously, Young Justice is working with enough people that it's doing something right, but I think there's still room for improvement.

Agent Z likes the Snyderverse so that’s not a downside for him. Personally I think characters like Forager (the designated “comic relief” characters) are painfully unfunny so I’m not at all bothered by YJ staying more serious. Weisman can’t write Superman well but that’s not at all surprising, although I hope he at least makes better use of him next season with the Legion. Really the thing that kills this show is how many useless characters it has that are just “there”. Weisman needs to cut the fat and pick a smaller core to focus on because this season barely anyone got enough screentime.