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  1. #2626
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ansa View Post
    Am I the only one who is a bit irritated by batcat fans who cling to this run, because they think their ship will get a happy ever after? I know it's not unlikely that Bruce and Selina will be married or at least be together after all of this is over, but do they really believe it will stay that way forever? Even when a batman story has a happy ending, you can bet that the next writer will create a new problem, a new tragedy, to tell a new story. I don't see this working for long, especially with Dan Didio running DC.
    Shippers will ship. They are obsessed and will cling to even the slightest hope that their dream pairing will be made canon. It doesn't matter how little sense the pairing makes, how bad and unbelievable the story, it doesn't matter who gets trashed. It doesn't even matter if the next writer breaks them apart.,

    What matter to these fans is that they can claim that batcat were once married in canon making it THE OTP. That is all that matters.

    I don't blame King for catering to that starving base. It's made him A Superstar.

    I doubt they will get married. DC isn't ready to retire Batman but the fact that the same fans who are praising this run are expecting Batcat to retire with baby Helena that should tell you how naive or deluded these fans are.

    Even if they do get married it won't be a happily ever after. That's boring after a while.


    I am irritated especially when they act like Bruce had no idea what love was until Selina. It irritates me when they and King underplay and undermine every other character in Bruce's life to elevate Batcat.

    I don't even care about Bruce's love life but I was irritated by King throwing other women in Bruce's life under the bus.
    I'm super irritated that Dick [the actual character that saved Bruce and brought love and family back into his life. The one who has been there the whole time] was benched so that the role of Knight who rides to the rescue can go to Selina and these ho's don't care.

    I'm super irritated that I'm forced to deal with ships in a Batman run.

  2. #2627
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ansa View Post
    Am I the only one who is a bit irritated by batcat fans who cling to this run, because they think their ship will get a happy ever after? I know it's not unlikely that Bruce and Selina will be married or at least be together after all of this is over, but do they really believe it will stay that way forever? Even when a batman story has a happy ending, you can bet that the next writer will create a new problem, a new tragedy, to tell a new story. I don't see this working for long, especially with Dan Didio running DC.
    I say it'll depend on how many readers his mini-series will draw. He won't have the Batman title effect on this one, so it'll be truly fans of King's writing and the BatCat shippers who will read it. And it'll be able to be compared a lot more fairly to the last Snyder mini, the Batman who Laughs, who had a new character disliked by many on the forum boards, and still pulled incredible numbers. If BatCat pull the same numbers or highers, or just under it, I think it won't be retconned anytime soon. If it's more in the 60K and below, however, it effects won't last long.

  3. #2628
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    Shippers will ship. They are obsessed and will cling to even the slightest hope that their dream pairing will be made canon. It doesn't matter how little sense the pairing makes, how bad and unbelievable the story, it doesn't matter who gets trashed. It doesn't even matter if the next writer breaks them apart.,

    What matter to these fans is that they can claim that batcat were once married in canon making it THE OTP. That is all that matters.

    I don't blame King for catering to that starving base. It's made him A Superstar.

    I doubt they will get married. DC isn't ready to retire Batman but the fact that the same fans who are praising this run are expecting Batcat to retire with baby Helena that should tell you how naive or deluded these fans are.

    Even if they do get married it won't be a happily ever after. That's boring after a while.


    I am irritated especially when they act like Bruce had no idea what love was until Selina. It irritates me when they and King underplay and undermine every other character in Bruce's life to elevate Batcat.

    I don't even care about Bruce's love life but I was irritated by King throwing other women in Bruce's life under the bus.
    I'm super irritated that Dick [the actual character that saved Bruce and brought love and family back into his life. The one who has been there the whole time] was benched so that the role of Knight who rides to the rescue can go to Selina and these ho's don't care.

    I'm super irritated that I'm forced to deal with ships in a Batman run.
    I don't ship Batman with anyone, for me Batman simply isn't about romance.

    About the marriage thing: By that logic I can claim that Bruce x Talia is the OTP because they were married in the original son of the demon story and Damian still exists. This isn't the first time Bruce was engaged/married guys.

    I don't see how Helena would work, especially in a way that shippers would like. Some of them seem to imagine a fanfiction-like developement with Bruce fawning over a pregnant Selina and raising Helena together in a family full of love. Makes me wonder if any of them ever actually read a Batman comic. There is a reason Damian entered comics as a ten year old, fully trained fighter. That's a character you can use in a Batman comic. There is also the problem that DC doesn't want to let main-universe Batman get older than 35-45. A pregnancy and a baby is a hindrance to that. In other words: DC won't let Tim Drake grow into an adult, but you think we'll see baby Helena grow up peacefully? I don't think so.
    The only way I see how Helena would work is if something bad happens to her. She gets kidnapped/artificially aged/other weird comic stuff to make her an older, usable character. That would a) enrage all the batcat shippes and b) brings us to the same situation Bruce was in with Damian: He didn't see him grow up. It brings nothing new to the table, but Bruce and Selina taking care of a baby that isn't allowed to get older because she would age the rest of the cast get's old pretty fast too.

    I'm not a fan of how King uses the batfamily in general, not just what he did to Dick. I saw a lot of people praise that Tim and Damian appeared in issue 76, but they didn't contribute anything to the plot. They basically spelled out that there's nothing they can do. King doesn't want the batfamily to help Bruce and save Gotham because in his head Selina is the only one who is allowed to do that, even if it's incedibly dumb.

  4. #2629
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    I say it'll depend on how many readers his mini-series will draw. He won't have the Batman title effect on this one, so it'll be truly fans of King's writing and the BatCat shippers who will read it. And it'll be able to be compared a lot more fairly to the last Snyder mini, the Batman who Laughs, who had a new character disliked by many on the forum boards, and still pulled incredible numbers. If BatCat pull the same numbers or highers, or just under it, I think it won't be retconned anytime soon. If it's more in the 60K and below, however, it effects won't last long.
    Tom King swears it's going to be the next Batman and Robin, capable of being a bestseller without any shilling or marketing, beloved by fans who will buy multiple reissues, a source of popular characters.

    Yeah. As you said, we'll see who the BatCat fans are. The sales will also be inflated due to the Art Gem variants, but if it doesn't stay above 60,000, like Morrison's Incorporated, we can expect nothing in it to stay relevant to canon.

    Besides Ric Grayson.

  5. #2630
    Amazing Member Mosameen's Avatar
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    The problem with King that in my opinion he wants to write BatCat not because he loves the pairing but so that he can leave his mark and leave legacy that he is the one that made BatCat marriage canon.

  6. #2631
    Incredible Member Blue22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    Shippers will ship. They are obsessed and will cling to even the slightest hope that their dream pairing will be made canon. It doesn't matter how little sense the pairing makes, how bad and unbelievable the story, it doesn't matter who gets trashed. It doesn't even matter if the next writer breaks them apart.,

    What matter to these fans is that they can claim that batcat were once married in canon making it THE OTP. That is all that matters.

    I don't blame King for catering to that starving base. It's made him A Superstar.

    I doubt they will get married. DC isn't ready to retire Batman but the fact that the same fans who are praising this run are expecting Batcat to retire with baby Helena that should tell you how naive or deluded these fans are.

    Even if they do get married it won't be a happily ever after. That's boring after a while.


    I am irritated especially when they act like Bruce had no idea what love was until Selina. It irritates me when they and King underplay and undermine every other character in Bruce's life to elevate Batcat.

    I don't even care about Bruce's love life but I was irritated by King throwing other women in Bruce's life under the bus.
    I'm super irritated that Dick [the actual character that saved Bruce and brought love and family back into his life. The one who has been there the whole time] was benched so that the role of Knight who rides to the rescue can go to Selina and these ho's don't care.

    I'm super irritated that I'm forced to deal with ships in a Batman run.
    As someone who is in favor of the marriage (but is also annoyed at the way this thing with Selina has made Bruce fall apart harder than the deaths of his Robins), I'll never understand both the in and out of universe logic that him marrying Selina means he can no longer be Batman. That was, without a doubt, one of the stupidest reasons that I have ever seen anyone leave someone at the altar for.

    "Bruce can't be Batman if he's happy! He has to be forever alone, for Gotham's sake"

    Ummm....Bruce has never been alone. And between the Robins, Batgirls, Batwoman, Commissioner Gordon, and Alfred, he never will be. No matter how hard he tries to angst himself away from them. Marrying Selina would not change anything. She would just be a new addition to something he already has. That's why it's called the Batfamily. Bruce has people who love him and that he loves in return. People who know how to make him happy. People who have made him happy. For fuck's sake, after decades of being that weirdo who keeps adopting kids that look eerily like him, he has a biological son now. Did having Damian slow down his crusade against crime? No! The kid joined him!

    And Selina knows all of this. So how the hell did Holly talk her out of the marriage so easily!? My only guess is that she never really wanted to marry him in the first place and just needed a convenient excuse not to go through with it. Because the reason King came up with is more nonsensical than Talia trying to kill Damian and then getting upset when he dies.

    Yeesh. Things got so Bat-Catty in here, that I almost forgot it's the Damian thread lol
    Last edited by Blue22; 08-08-2019 at 03:42 PM.

  7. #2632
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue22 View Post
    And Selina knows all of this. So how the hell did Holly talk her out of the marriage so easily!? My only guess is that she never really wanted to marry him in the first place and just needed a convenient excuse not to go through with it. Because the reason King came up with is more nonsensical than Talia trying to kill Damian and then getting upset when he dies.
    I think Talia's attitude makes sense (in a twisted way).

    Talia was trying to kill Damian because he had become a major obstacle and enemy. That doesn't change that Talia won't be happy when Damian really dies, since she still loves his son.

  8. #2633
    Incredible Member Blue22's Avatar
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    I'm more referring to her lashing out at Heretic for killing him, as if she wasn't the one who put a hit out on Damian in the first place. It basically boiled down to:

    "I want him dead!"
    [a few issues later]
    "WHY DID YOU KILL HIM!?"

    Why do you think, you crazy, indecisive cow!?

  9. #2634
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue22 View Post
    I'm more referring to her lashing out at Heretic for killing him, as if she wasn't the one who put a hit out on Damian in the first place. It basically boiled down to:

    "I want him dead!"
    [a few issues later]
    "WHY DID YOU KILL HIM!?"

    Why do you think, you crazy, indecisive cow!?
    Talia was being irrational, but her attitude makes sense in the context. It is clear that Damian's death hurts her more than she expected.

    There is difference between a character acting irrationally because a certain situation affected her/him severely and a character acting without any sense or logic.

    The former isn't necessarily product of bad writing.
    Last edited by Konja7; 08-08-2019 at 04:43 PM.

  10. #2635
    Incredible Member Blue22's Avatar
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    It's just one of a couple things that kinda soured me to Morrison's take on Talia. Like...I can understand having to grieve over your decision...but don't try and act like it wasn't still your decision XD

  11. #2636
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue22 View Post
    As someone who is in favor of the marriage (but is also annoyed at the way this thing with Selina has made Bruce fall apart harder than the deaths of his Robins), I'll never understand both the in and out of universe logic that him marrying Selina means he can no longer be Batman. That was, without a doubt, one of the stupidest reasons that I have ever seen anyone leave someone at the altar for.

    "Bruce can't be Batman if he's happy! He has to be forever alone, for Gotham's sake"

    Ummm....Bruce has never been alone. And between the Robins, Batgirls, Batwoman, Commissioner Gordon, and Alfred, he never will be. No matter how hard he tries to angst himself away from them. Marrying Selina would not change anything. She would just be a new addition to something he already has. That's why it's called the Batfamily. Bruce has people who love him and that he loves in return. People who know how to make him happy. People who have made him happy. For fuck's sake, after decades of being that weirdo who keeps adopting kids that look eerily like him, he has a biological son now. Did having Damian slow down his crusade against crime? No! The kid joined him!

    And Selina knows all of this. So how the hell did Holly talk her out of the marriage so easily!? My only guess is that she never really wanted to marry him in the first place and just needed a convenient excuse not to go through with it. Because the reason King came up with is more nonsensical than Talia trying to kill Damian and then getting upset when he dies.

    Yeesh. Things got so Bat-Catty in here, that I almost forgot it's the Damian thread lol
    Agree with all this. It's stupid and incorret to claim that Bruce can't be happy and be batman when we've got decades of stories that counter that.

    The ideas is that Bane has been controlling them since the start. They were both manipulated into getting married and then Selina was manipulated into leaving Bruce.

    The idea that Bane can manipulate the two so easily is silly. The idea that Selina can be tricked into thinking that if he's happy he'll give up Batman when she's been living happily with him and he did no such thing is silly.
    But what made me laugh in 50 was Selina asking whether she is a hero.

    King is going about this the wrong way. Rather than make Selina a part of the family he is ripping the family apart. Bruce can care for his family, friends and lover. Those are different kinds of love. Trying to shoehorn Selina into a role that wasn't hers won't work since we all know Batman's story so far.

  12. #2637
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mosameen View Post
    The problem with King that in my opinion he wants to write BatCat not because he loves the pairing but so that he can leave his mark and leave legacy that he is the one that made BatCat marriage canon.
    He certainly doesn't write them like someone who is a fan.

  13. #2638

  14. #2639
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Bros
    Nightwing and Robin




    https://twitter.com/hainingart


    Damian and Jason



    https://twitter.com/42jpg

  15. #2640
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Anyway I'm not concerned about King's title more interested in the much more popular series that gave us this gem





    Even though he's dead Taylor's Batman is a the better man.

    That cowl isn't going to fit though might need to break out Batboy until he grows into the real deal.

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