Damian Wayne: Robin Appreciation 2019

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

Alfred being a bad father was a storytelling element. I forgot the book, but when Bruce first lost his parents, he was silent. He was in full professional butler mode, where he couldn't or don't want to talk with Bruce about his feelings, so flash forward to today, where he already realized his mistake, he can talk and console Robin, I think it was Dick.

Unfortunately, that's the only story I know that deliberately presents Alfred like that, where the writers are aware that Alfred makes mistakes.

Another thing I like to point out that almost all of Alfred's mistakes can simply be attributed to the fact that he's not their father, but a butler, a worker. So he doesn't view himself worthy to speak over the boss. He can snark, but not directly speak or act against Bruce's decision, because he's still an employee and a professional one at that.

Problem is after all these years, pretty much everyone realizes that Alfred is a father figure to Bruce, so current writers decide to put him on a pedestal. That's the mistake.

As much as Alfred is viewed as a father figure by us and by the family, Alfred himself shouldn't view himself like that. He should have that feeling that he's stepping over the line if he starts casually including himself as a part of the family.

It really makes me uncomfortable when I see Snyder or King write him calling Bruce his son in his letter and diary, even if all the family including Alfred feels that way. It's one thing if it's something unsaid, it's another when Alfred himself says it. It feels arrogant, possessive, and overstepping boundaries. I feel Alfred being the professional that he is, is more self-aware than that.

I think the story you are thinking about is Dark Victory. And I agree, I think it’s interesting and worth exploring that Alfred may very well be partially responsible for Bruce turning into the emotionally distant and self-destructive man who fights crime in a batsuit. Alfred wasn’t ready to be a father when the Wayne’s were murdered, maybe by the time he grew into the role, the damage was done. Not sure what the deal was with him and Julia, but my understanding was he dropped the ball there too. Personally I like the idea that he does better with the Robins than he was with young Bruce. Not a fan of what he did with Damian. But even so, he shouldn’t be a paragon, like how many writers go about it. Like you said, I don’t think he should be entirely comfortable with the role.

[CPSparkles]

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[CPSparkles]

I feel that much like Bruce with Dick and Dick with Damian whether or not Alfred was ready or wanted to be a parent he became that. Someone had to be given legal responsibility for Bruce.

Bruce's training and journey to become Batman didn't pay for itself. Alfred must have become Bruce's Guardian. Alfred is responsible for who Bruce became and he seems to be doing worse with Bruce's kids.

Has Alfred really improved over the years? I don't think so. Bruce wasn't out on the streets as a minor but the Robins are. Bruce had far more training before hitting the streets but the Robins at times are sent out there unprepared.

I think Alfred is better at looking after Bruce's interest and protecting him not so much the Robins. I don't know how Alfred feels about the Robins. The writing is inconsistent.

Alfred isn't a paragon but fans have different rules for different characters for example if Damian shoots Black mask = Evil, villain.
Jason shoots Penguin = anti hero does what Batman can't.

Bruce punches Tim = uproar and pitch forks
Bruce punches Jason = murmur

Jason tries to kill Tim = tumble weed ... nothing lets move on
Damian tries to kill Tim = burn him even today on reddit there's a post... burn him

Fandom has a place and levels of pass for all characters. Alfred is one of those that fans and creators don't like calling out. They are happy to forget.

It's just one of those things.

I hope we get to see the family react to his passing. The reaction to Dick getting shot was late but I welcomed it a lot.

I burned when we didn't see Damian's reaction to Dick dying in the new 52 or more when Tim was believed dead.

[Ansa]

Regardless of how good/bad Alfred truly was, I think we can all agree he was one of the few people Damian truly loved. If that was earned...that's another question. Damian cared about him and had to watch him die, and Damian already lost Dick to amnesia and Jon (to Bendis nonsense) to the future. Bruce is neglectful if he's not written by Tomasi and even there Bruce isn't exactly a dream of a parent all the time.
I hope dc will aknowledge what Damian has lost and that Bruce needs to step up his parent game. I'm tired of Bruce getting a free-pass for every crap because he's Batman and the center of the universe. It shouldn't just be him who gets to grieve for his loss.

[CPSparkles]

Regardless of how good/bad Alfred truly was, I think we can all agree he was one of the few people Damian truly loved. If that was earned...that's another question. Damian cared about him and had to watch him die, and Damian already lost Dick to amnesia and Jon (to Bendis nonsense) to the future. Bruce is neglectful if he's not written by Tomasi and even there Bruce isn't exactly a dream of a parent all the time.
I hope dc will aknowledge what Damian has lost and that Bruce needs to step up his parent game. I'm tired of Bruce getting a free-pass for every crap because he's Batman and the center of the universe. It shouldn't just be him who gets to grieve for his loss.

Unlikely that Bruce will step up his parenting game. DC has zero interest in that.

DC couldn't even get behind Clark being a parent. Clark whose verse is 1000 times more wholesome and apple pie than Batman's. Tomasi said he had to fight for every family story he told.

He was told that fans want villains and fights from comics not country fairs and family time

DC isn't about to let Bruce start doing hands on parenting. They want to eat their cake and have it. Heck the distanced Robin from Batman back in the 90's. That's how much they like solo batman

It would be nice if someone covered the effect on the family besides Bruce but I'd rather get a story acknowledging what Damian has lost in Dick Grayson. At least there he's lost something.

Alfred didn't really impact Damian's life positively in a significant way.

On the subject of truly loves I believe Damian's love for Alfred are pretty much on the same level as Ra's.

I hope we see something but since Tynion is doing the Batman I'm willing to bet that nope we won't but we might get how it impacts Tim.

Bruce will get to grieve since it's his book. Damian doesn't have a solo so again even more reasons why I doubt we'll get to see him grieve.

[Ansa]

Unlikely that Bruce will step up his parenting game. DC has zero interest in that.

DC couldn't even get behind Clark being a parent. Clark whose verse is 1000 times more wholesome and apple pie than Batman's. Tomasi said he had to fight for every family story he told.

He was told that fans want villains and fights from comics not country fairs and family time

DC isn't about to let Bruce start doing hands on parenting. They want to eat their cake and have it. Heck the distanced Robin from Batman back in the 90's. That's how much they like solo batman

It would be nice if someone covered the effect on the family besides Bruce but I'd rather get a story acknowledging what Damian has lost in Dick Grayson. At least there he's lost something.

Alfred didn't really impact Damian's life positively in a significant way.

On the subject of truly loves I believe Damian's love for Alfred are pretty much on the same level as Ra's.

I hope we see something but since Tynion is doing the Batman I'm willing to bet that nope we won't but we might get how it impacts Tim.

Bruce will get to grieve since it's his book. Damian doesn't have a solo so again even more reasons why I doubt we'll get to see him grieve.

I'm pretty sure Damian loves Alfred a lot more than Ra's. Alfred was the only one who gave him something nice for his birthday, a cake, while Ra's sent him a dead bird and a death threat. Alfred was the one who gave him Alfred the cat. Alfred was the one who takes care of Damian's animals when he's gone and he's grateful for that. Alfred was devastated when Damian died, so much that even Bruce got out of his own ass for a few minutes and aknowledged that he wasn't the only one who lost a son. Alfred and Damian both care for each other. I agree that Alfred tends to put Bruce before everything, but that doesn't mean the others mean nothing to him.

[CPSparkles]

I'm pretty sure Damian loves Alfred a lot more than Ra's. Alfred was the only one who gave him something nice for his birthday, a cake, while Ra's sent him a dead bird and a death threat. Alfred was the one who gave him Alfred the cat. Alfred was the one who takes care of Damian's animals when he's gone and he's grateful for that. Alfred was devastated when Damian died, so much that even Bruce got out of his own ass for a few minutes and aknowledged that he wasn't the only one who lost a son. Alfred and Damian both care for each other. I agree that Alfred tends to put Bruce before everything, but that doesn't mean the others mean nothing to him.

He literally banished Damian from a father he was just getting to know. A 10 year old who had just returned from death and who we saw was still having nightmares of what happened when he died.

That's on par with Talia who also kept him from his father except Talia offered him a chance to change the situation.

Alfred made it clear that Bruce was better off without Damian. That his life was better/happier if he didn't know Damian. That is so many levels of messed up no amount of cake can ever make that better. Damian having to watch Bruce play, smile and frolic with kids [something he did only once with Damian]

Watching from the shadows as his dad is indeed happier with other kids. What he must have been thinking.

I don't know for certain how much Damian loves anyone aside from Dick and Bruce but I do know that just because someone gave you something nice doesn't mean you automatically love them more than those who you love unconditionally.

Damian needs some positive stories. I'm so done with the sadness and pressure writers keep putting him under.

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[Ansa]

He literally banished Damian from a father he was just getting to know. A 10 year old who had just returned from death and who we saw was still having nightmares of what happened when he died.

That's on par with Talia who also kept him from his father except Talia offered him a chance to change the situation.

Alfred made it clear that Bruce was better off without Damian. That his life was better/happier if he didn't know Damian. That is so many levels of messed up no amount of cake can ever make that better. Damian having to watch Bruce play, smile and frolic with kids [something he did only once with Damian]

Watching from the shadows as his dad is indeed happier with other kids. What he must have been thinking.

I don't know for certain how much Damian loves anyone aside from Dick and Bruce but I do know that just because someone gave you something nice doesn't mean you automatically love them more than those who you love unconditionally.

Damian needs some positive stories. I'm so done with the sadness and pressure writers keep putting him under.

Whether you like it or not, Damian does love Alfred. I never said what Alfred did wasn't messed up. But canon doesn't support Damian viewing Alfred the same way as Ra's. Quite the opposite actually.

[CPSparkles]

Whether you like it or not, Damian does love Alfred. I never said what Alfred did wasn't messed up. But canon doesn't support Damian viewing Alfred the same way as Ra's. Quite the opposite actually.

It's nothing to do with personal preference. It's just about what is. Canon doesn't have anything to indicate how much Damian loves Alfred or Ra's so I can't say either way who he loves more.

I never said Damian doesn't love Alfred in fact the opposite I said he loved him. I even compared his feelings for Alfred to that of the few people he loves Ra's.

You are correct that Damian doesn't view Alfred like he does Ra's but that doesn't mean he loves him any more or less though canon does show us the lengths Damian will go to to gain Ra's acceptance and love. Something we haven't seen with Alfred due to Alfred not being one of Damian's significant relationships.

[Godlike13]

Damian is a bad boy who wants to be a good boy.

[Darkcrusade25]

Damian is a bad boy who wants to be a good boy.

Kinda feels like the opposite some times.

[CPSparkles]

Kinda feels like the opposite some times.

From the greatest Assassin the world would never know to a hero who died twice for others

Damian went from the year of blood to Redemption and collecting fluffy animals.

Damian's a very very very bad boy who is trying he's very best to be a good boy. he makes mistakes and he hasn't quite lost all his bad habits but it takes time to lose all the programming.

He's come a long way from the kid who weaponized a severed head with a grenade in it.

That was a badass move I'm not going to lie.

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