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  1. #586
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    Quote Originally Posted by GaryFisher View Post
    That's a little different from what I heard. According to a full HD version I saw, Gen 3 year 9 is Stephanie's Robin instead of batgirl era. Barbara still returns as BG in year 12, but Batman would'nt ‘die’ before year 14. If Steph should have succeed ed Cass' mantle in Batman Reborn, that'll be at least 2 years after Babs had returned, which is quite a paradox.
    I hope Steph would be handled properly. What they've done to Cass in BOP has already hurt me a lot.
    I can see how the logic would be - but honestly, though her status quo is very post-Batman-RIP, I don't see anything in her actual stories that requires Batgirl Steph to be post RIP. At least, not if you squint.

    Quote Originally Posted by GaryFisher View Post
    That HD version I saw has many blanks and ‘stains’ on it. It must be incomplete. If in Tec980 Steph was shown both her Robin and Batgirl eras, I hope it'll still becanon.
    Tec 980's Batgirl and Robin Stephs were alternate universes...but from a timeline that I believe was originally connected to the current one. So it's confusing and there's lots of wiggle room.

    Quote Originally Posted by GaryFisher View Post
    I can translate it back to English if you want it.
    I know there's several groups in various servers and boards working on it. I also hope DC is smart and actually releases the darn thing.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
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  2. #587
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    I can see how the logic would be - but honestly, though her status quo is very post-Batman-RIP, I don't see anything in her actual stories that requires Batgirl Steph to be post RIP. At least, not if you squint.



    Tec 980's Batgirl and Robin Stephs were alternate universes...but from a timeline that I believe was originally connected to the current one. So it's confusing and there's lots of wiggle room.



    I know there's several groups in various servers and boards working on it. I also hope DC is smart and actually releases the darn thing.
    Alternate!? But DC Database says they are exactly from pre-Flashpoint New Earth. And the future Tim's Titans Tomorrow timeline is originally a possible future of New Earth. I hope the Steph(and Cass) Brother Eye showed are exactly those from pre-Flashpoint timeline. Maybe the girls can somehow regain their pre-Flashpoint memories like Tim did.

  3. #588
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    Quote Originally Posted by GaryFisher View Post
    Alternate!? But DC Database says they are exactly from pre-Flashpoint New Earth. And the future Tim's Titans Tomorrow timeline is originally a possible future of New Earth. I hope the Steph(and Cass) Brother Eye showed are exactly those from pre-Flashpoint timeline. Maybe the girls can somehow regain their pre-Flashpoint memories like Tim did.
    That is my fondest hope!
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
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  4. #589
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    That is my fondest hope!
    During their travel to Flashpoint Barry and Batman felt that the Silver Age version of themselves that they saw in the time stream is not other people or parallel universe but actually themselves. I think Rebirth did start defining versions past as one continuous time stream, especially with YJ mentioning the 7 Crisis, but their old lives were changed, covered and forgotten under all the reboots.

    So yeah, like Barry and Batman, that old Cass and Steph are them.

  5. #590
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    During their travel to Flashpoint Barry and Batman felt that the Silver Age version of themselves that they saw in the time stream is not other people or parallel universe but actually themselves. I think Rebirth did start defining versions past as one continuous time stream, especially with YJ mentioning the 7 Crisis, but their old lives were changed, covered and forgotten under all the reboots.

    So yeah, like Barry and Batman, that old Cass and Steph are them.
    That would fit with how King is saying that Batman #1 and Batman Year One are both true, even though we've gone through so many retcons and reboots.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews

  6. #591
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    That would fit with how King is saying that Batman #1 and Batman Year One are both true, even though we've gone through so many retcons and reboots.
    I always think it a strange thing that it seems like after Rebirth, Steph and Cass are the only two to completely remain the New52 origins and canons while their pre-Flashpoint history is completely erased. You know, Helena suddenly became Huntress in BOP, Barbara's Oracle tenure, Plastic Man's new origin in Forever Evil seems to never exist, Tim is still a former Robin, Mr.Freeze's classic origin came back, even Renee's pre-Flashpoint history has been abruptly brought back recently. But only the former Batgirls still use their all-new origins from the Eternals, history all rewritten.��

  7. #592
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    Quote Originally Posted by GaryFisher View Post
    I always think it a strange thing that it seems like after Rebirth, Steph and Cass are the only two to completely remain the New52 origins and canons while their pre-Flashpoint history is completely erased. You know, Helena suddenly became Huntress in BOP, Barbara's Oracle tenure, Plastic Man's new origin in Forever Evil seems to never exist, Tim is still a former Robin, Mr.Freeze's classic origin came back, even Renee's pre-Flashpoint history has been abruptly brought back recently. But only the former Batgirls still use their all-new origins from the Eternals, history all rewritten.��
    Well, Lois Lane hinted at something that Bendis tweeted is going to affect all of his corner of the DCUnivese, and since he's currently working with Steph in Young Justice...maybe we'll have something soon!
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews

  8. #593
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GaryFisher View Post
    I always think it a strange thing that it seems like after Rebirth, Steph and Cass are the only two to completely remain the New52 origins and canons while their pre-Flashpoint history is completely erased. You know, Helena suddenly became Huntress in BOP, Barbara's Oracle tenure, Plastic Man's new origin in Forever Evil seems to never exist, Tim is still a former Robin, Mr.Freeze's classic origin came back, even Renee's pre-Flashpoint history has been abruptly brought back recently. But only the former Batgirls still use their all-new origins from the Eternals, history all rewritten.��
    Helena became a Huntress was not a return but a continuation. She was still an agent of Spyral but she retired to track down the mob that murdered her parents.

  9. #594
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    I need more STEPH.. I heard that Cass will appear in Harley&Birds of Prey comic too.

    I want one active STEPH in a comic too.

  10. #595
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    Well, Lois Lane hinted at something that Bendis tweeted is going to affect all of his corner of the DCUnivese, and since he's currently working with Steph in Young Justice...maybe we'll have something soon!
    The line you must mean from Lois Lane #4 is where the current Question - Renee Montoya - is in conversation with the original Question - Vic Sage, who is back and has been in Action Comics and Event Leviathan. Renee is trying to understand how he is back, since he died in her presence, and says to him "We've talked about my broken brain plenty. Things I remember but can't because I don't remember doing them in the first place." Vic responds "Yeah, they're called memories."

    So I guess everyone in our universe, or the multiverse (since we know our crises seem to mess up Gemworld, wherever that is) is going to have these very strange deja vus for the rest of their lives!

    Vic does remember everything getting colder - and then warmer.

    Then they talk about -- are they people dreaming they are butterflies, or the reverse? Or why not both?

    I have no doubt that since Tim remembers the alternate timeline, Steph eventually will too. Unless DC changes course too much before Bendis gets to that.

    The "Steph as Robin" storyline was brief, and wasn't it just a stunt to hide the real surprise (stunt) - that Steph was going to (1) mess up and then (2) die? If you can only have one, is it as important to include as a Steph as Batgirl? It's a tragic tale leading to multiple retcons.

    Maybe DC thinks a woman as Robin is more important to keep. Or, maybe the powers that be think that letting Steph, after all a relatively minor character in the overall scheme of the DC Universe, be Spoiler, Robin and Batgirl is just too much prominence. Even Barbara only gets to be two characters - how can Steph be three? (Is Spoiler even mentioned in the charts? They can't possibly mention everyone!)

    But at least on the chart, there does appear to be room, post-Robin, for Steph to be Batgirl before Barbara returns. I guess depends on when Cass gives up the role, which depends on when Batman disappears... Of course if there is no Steph, then they still have to explain when and why Cass handed the role back to Barbara.

  11. #596
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohfellow View Post
    The line you must mean from Lois Lane #4 is where the current Question - Renee Montoya - is in conversation with the original Question - Vic Sage, who is back and has been in Action Comics and Event Leviathan. Renee is trying to understand how he is back, since he died in her presence, and says to him "We've talked about my broken brain plenty. Things I remember but can't because I don't remember doing them in the first place." Vic responds "Yeah, they're called memories."

    So I guess everyone in our universe, or the multiverse (since we know our crises seem to mess up Gemworld, wherever that is) is going to have these very strange deja vus for the rest of their lives!

    Vic does remember everything getting colder - and then warmer.

    Then they talk about -- are they people dreaming they are butterflies, or the reverse? Or why not both?

    I have no doubt that since Tim remembers the alternate timeline, Steph eventually will too. Unless DC changes course too much before Bendis gets to that.

    The "Steph as Robin" storyline was brief, and wasn't it just a stunt to hide the real surprise (stunt) - that Steph was going to (1) mess up and then (2) die? If you can only have one, is it as important to include as a Steph as Batgirl? It's a tragic tale leading to multiple retcons.

    Maybe DC thinks a woman as Robin is more important to keep. Or, maybe the powers that be think that letting Steph, after all a relatively minor character in the overall scheme of the DC Universe, be Spoiler, Robin and Batgirl is just too much prominence. Even Barbara only gets to be two characters - how can Steph be three? (Is Spoiler even mentioned in the charts? They can't possibly mention everyone!)

    But at least on the chart, there does appear to be room, post-Robin, for Steph to be Batgirl before Barbara returns. I guess depends on when Cass gives up the role, which depends on when Batman disappears... Of course if there is no Steph, then they still have to explain when and why Cass handed the role back to Barbara.

    I don't think Spoiler identity is included in the charts. Spoiler isn't an "important" identity for DC.

    If the charts are correct, they will probably ignore Stephanie as Batgirl, because they want the return of Barbara to be chronlogically sooner.

    So, Robin is the only "important" identity Stephanke can use. They would likelly totally ignore her in these charts without this identity.

    I just hope DC uses Stephanie's time as Robin for something important in the future.
    Last edited by Konja7; 10-07-2019 at 03:11 PM.

  12. #597
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohfellow View Post
    The line you must mean from Lois Lane #4 is where the current Question - Renee Montoya - is in conversation with the original Question - Vic Sage, who is back and has been in Action Comics and Event Leviathan. Renee is trying to understand how he is back, since he died in her presence, and says to him "We've talked about my broken brain plenty. Things I remember but can't because I don't remember doing them in the first place." Vic responds "Yeah, they're called memories."

    So I guess everyone in our universe, or the multiverse (since we know our crises seem to mess up Gemworld, wherever that is) is going to have these very strange deja vus for the rest of their lives!

    Vic does remember everything getting colder - and then warmer.

    Then they talk about -- are they people dreaming they are butterflies, or the reverse? Or why not both?

    I have no doubt that since Tim remembers the alternate timeline, Steph eventually will too. Unless DC changes course too much before Bendis gets to that.

    The "Steph as Robin" storyline was brief, and wasn't it just a stunt to hide the real surprise (stunt) - that Steph was going to (1) mess up and then (2) die? If you can only have one, is it as important to include as a Steph as Batgirl? It's a tragic tale leading to multiple retcons.

    Maybe DC thinks a woman as Robin is more important to keep. Or, maybe the powers that be think that letting Steph, after all a relatively minor character in the overall scheme of the DC Universe, be Spoiler, Robin and Batgirl is just too much prominence. Even Barbara only gets to be two characters - how can Steph be three? (Is Spoiler even mentioned in the charts? They can't possibly mention everyone!)

    But at least on the chart, there does appear to be room, post-Robin, for Steph to be Batgirl before Barbara returns. I guess depends on when Cass gives up the role, which depends on when Batman disappears... Of course if there is no Steph, then they still have to explain when and why Cass handed the role back to Barbara.
    That's right. There's clearly something going on in Bendis's collaborative ongoing narrative push that includes things from pre-Flashpoint bleeding into the current continuity.

    I don't quite understand why they'd keep Steph as Robin and remove Steph as Batgirl. But I also don't understand why they killed Steph off and erased her. So clearly Didio and Harras think extremely differently than me.

    I agree with you that there is ROOM for Steph to be Batgirl. Whether or not DC is willing to accept it? That's another issue altogether.

    Quote Originally Posted by Konja7 View Post
    I don't think Spoiler identity is included in the charts. Spoiler isn't an "important" identity for DC.

    If the charts are correct, they will probably ignore Stephanie as Batgirl, because they want the return of Barbara to be sooner.

    So, Robin is the only "important" identity Stephanue can use. Without this identity, they would likelly totally ignore her in these charts.

    I just hope DC uses Stephanie's time as Robin for something important in the future.
    Returning Babs sooner just...frustrates me, both because I love her as Oracle so much, and because at this point, it seems almost completely motivated by spite on editorial's part towards Steph.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews

  13. #598
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    Returning Babs sooner just...frustrates me, both because I love her as Oracle so much, and because at this point, it seems almost completely motivated by spite on editorial's part towards Steph.
    Even if Steph is negatively affected for this, I don't think it's motivated by spite towards Steph.

    They probably don't want Barbara to stay a lot of time as Oracle (that way it can have some sense she returns to be Batgirl).

    Now, DC is including Cassandra in Birds of Prey (which will have a film). So, of course, DC makes Cassandra to be Batgirl again.

  14. #599
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    Quote Originally Posted by Konja7 View Post
    Even if Steph is negatively affected for this, I don't think it's motivated by spite towards Steph.

    They probably don't want Barbara to stay a lot of time as Oracle (that way it can have some sense she returns to be Batgirl).

    Now, DC is including Cassandra in Birds of Prey (which will have a film). So, of course, DC makes Cassandra to be Batgirl again.
    I think Didio has proven his spite already.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
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  15. #600
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    I think Didio has proven his spite already.
    I don't deny that. I just don't think that's the main reason this time

    I mean, Didio has shown his spite towards Cassandra too, but she has recovered her time as Batgirl this time.

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