Stephanie Brown: Spoiler, Robin, Batgirl Appreciation 2019

[millernumber1]

Maya first appearance was in Robin:Son of Batman comic.. However without Gleason.. I can´t imagine someone using her again..

When rebirth started and she was not in the TT I knew that there was not chance to see her in a TT comic even with another writer..

I see Steph as one secondary character too in this comic..

4 girls and 3 guys.. 7 members and 4 are girls.. I can´t see her in that team..

Well, that's why I want a rotating team. Steph can come in and out as needed. And of course Steph is always needed.

[sunofdarkchild]

Just got around to last week's Young Justice. Tim struggling with past memories while Steph just knows she was a Robin and a Batgirl, and now her father is alive again, but it looks like this is the next thing that happens after they left in Detective. I'm really confused with the continuity now. When did pre-crisis Steph replace Nu-52 Steph? Not that I'm complaining about that change, but huh?

[millernumber1]

Just got around to last week's Young Justice. Tim struggling with past memories while Steph just knows she was a Robin and a Batgirl, and now her father is alive again, but it looks like this is the next thing that happens after they left in Detective. I'm really confused with the continuity now. When did pre-crisis Steph replace Nu-52 Steph? Not that I'm complaining about that change, but huh?

This does take place relatively soon after the end of Tynion's run, but continuity is weird.

Steph doesn't actually remember being Batgirl and Robin, but she knows about it from Brother Eye's video, and likes joking about it. I think she's still on the journey of remembering it - and hopefully that will actually happen! (Let Bendis know you want it to! )

[sunofdarkchild]

This does take place relatively soon after the end of Tynion's run, but continuity is weird.

Steph doesn't actually remember being Batgirl and Robin, but she knows about it from Brother Eye's video, and likes joking about it. I think she's still on the journey of remembering it - and hopefully that will actually happen! (Let Bendis know you want it to! )

Ah. I guess that makes more sense. Still doesn't explain how Cluemaster is alive though.

[millernumber1]

Ah. I guess that makes more sense. Still doesn't explain how Cluemaster is alive though.

COMICS! Haha. Honestly, even though it's a blatant retcon, I like it, because it gives Steph something to do that's really tied to her, not to anyone else.

[SixSpeedSamurai]

I may have missed it, but if the Cluemaster died in New52 and has not appeared in Rebirth, doesn't that kind of leave it open to the writers?

[millernumber1]

I may have missed it, but if the Cluemaster died in New52 and has not appeared in Rebirth, doesn't that kind of leave it open to the writers?

I mean, the general mandate in Rebirth seems to be "the n52 happened, but if you want to retcon stuff in from pre-Flashpoint, you can).

It's not like Cluemaster hasn't died before, in the Suicide Squad, and then come right back in War Crimes.

[ohfellow]

I mean, the general mandate in Rebirth seems to be "the n52 happened, but if you want to retcon stuff in from pre-Flashpoint, you can).

It's not like Cluemaster hasn't died before, in the Suicide Squad, and then come right back in War Crimes.

Maybe Justice League will turn out to be all bark and no bite, but if it doesn't in some way overturn continuity, then boy would that title turn out to be a lot of noise about nothing. Will this multiverse be reset and have had no crisis at all? As if nothing happened, like what just happened to Lex? Will every universe within this multiverse remain unchanged? It seems unlikely. And if things change - then we aren't in N52/Rebirth anymore, but are in the next thing whatever that is.

If Justice League weren't just about the top selling book (behind Batman and Tec), I'd say maybe it's just weird stuff happening in some corner of the DCU that can be ignored if this type of high concept illustrated sci-fi/fantasy isn't your thing. But it looks to me like a year-long crisis in the making.

I've been trying to see what I "need" to be reading to get the most of the upcoming YOTV. I hope it's not too much. Not every YOTV tie-in is going to be critical, but a few surely will be. Maybe it's too soon to figure out, as only the July titles are even announced. But - unofficially, YOTV has already started in JL, just as Event Leviathan started a couple of months ago in Action.

[millernumber1]

Maybe Justice League will turn out to be all bark and no bite, but if it doesn't in some way overturn continuity, then boy would that title turn out to be a lot of noise about nothing. Will this multiverse be reset and have had no crisis at all? As if nothing happened, like what just happened to Lex? Will every universe within this multiverse remain unchanged? It seems unlikely. And if things change - then we aren't in N52/Rebirth anymore, but are in the next thing whatever that is.

If Justice League weren't just about the top selling book (behind Batman and Tec), I'd say maybe it's just weird stuff happening in some corner of the DCU that can be ignored if this type of high concept illustrated sci-fi/fantasy isn't your thing. But it looks to me like a year-long crisis in the making.

I've been trying to see what I "need" to be reading to get the most of the upcoming YOTV. I hope it's not too much. Not every YOTV tie-in is going to be critical, but a few surely will be. Maybe it's too soon to figure out, as only the July titles are even announced. But - unofficially, YOTV has already started in JL, just as Event Leviathan started a couple of months ago in Action.

I mean, most events are too big to really just "start" in their miniseries. I'd actually point at Metal as something where they probably should have done a bit more setup (though I understand why they didn't - Snyder only had one ongoing title, and this was his first event).

That being said, I'm really hoping that whatever Year of the Villain or Doomsday Clock or whatever reality-shifting things go on, that we will continue to see Steph. Unlike Flashpoint.

[Dataweaver]

Lesson that I hope they learn, but probably haven't: if you, the writer or editor, don't like a character, it's better to put them on a bus to Limbo and then ignore them for your run than to kill them. You'll generate less bad blood with the fans (there's a world of difference between “Where's Wally?" and “You killed Wally!”), and you never know when someone might come up with a compelling story idea that just cries out for that character.

[millernumber1]

Lesson that I hope they learn, but probably haven't: if you, the writer or editor, don't like a character, it's better to put them on a bus to Limbo and then ignore them for your run than to kill them. You'll generate less bad blood with the fans (there's a world of difference between “Where's Wally?" and “You killed Wally!”), and you never know when someone might come up with a compelling story idea that just cries out for that character.

Too true. But people like the outrage bucks.

And fans keep giving them.

Sigh.

That's why I try to hype up when Steph shows up and is cool, like Young Justice #5, so the creators can see that doing good things generates sales too.

[ohfellow]

I mean, the general mandate in Rebirth seems to be "the n52 happened, but if you want to retcon stuff in from pre-Flashpoint, you can).

It's not like Cluemaster hasn't died before, in the Suicide Squad, and then come right back in War Crimes.

My sense of it is that after the Superman Reborn cross-over and the dead New 52 Superman was magically resurrected (Oz or Mxy or something) and merged with the older Superman (from a universe that didn't survive Convergence?, and who has been living under a different name in the countryside), everything has the potential to be different.

The current Superman remembers it all (I think), but his official history is a mix of the 2 Supermen (meaning a mix of New 52 and whatever reality the older Superman is from), and everyone else's memory has been similarly altered to match that official history. No one remembers it any other way.

I don't know how often Superman talked about this or who else he told, but I do know he sat Supergirl down in her title and told her things had changed. (This happened in Supergirl #8, June 2017 - Superman Reborn Aftermath: Family of Tomorrow. https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Supergirl_Vol_7_8 )

And if Superman's history has been officially altered, then so were his interactions and, potentially, everything in the entire universe.

And let's not forget (I hope I have this right) - older Lois came along with older Clark (and Jon). Younger Lois, along with Lana, got New 52 Superman's dying energy and became one of two brand-new Superwomen, but that Lois died in the very first issue of the Superwoman title, conveniently leaving room for the older Lois to masquerade in her place. Older Clark and older Lois were somehow fooling everyone, and this was even before the eventual merger took place.

The best explanation is: comics!

But anyway, I think it means anyone who hasn't been seen since New 52 can in theory reappear in Rebirth.

[millernumber1]

My sense of it is that after the Superman Reborn cross-over and the dead New 52 Superman was magically resurrected (Oz or Mxy or something) and merged with the older Superman (from a universe that didn't survive Convergence?, and who has been living under a different name in the countryside), everything has the potential to be different.

The current Superman remembers it all (I think), but his official history is a mix of the 2 Supermen (meaning a mix of New 52 and whatever reality the older Superman is from), and everyone else's memory has been similarly altered to match that official history. No one remembers it any other way.

I don't know how often Superman talked about this or who else he told, but I do know he sat Supergirl down in her title and told her things had changed. (This happened in Supergirl #8, June 2017 - Superman Reborn Aftermath: Family of Tomorrow. https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Supergirl_Vol_7_8 )

And if Superman's history has been officially altered, then so were his interactions and, potentially, everything in the entire universe.

And let's not forget (I hope I have this right) - older Lois came along with older Clark (and Jon). Younger Lois, along with Lana, got New 52 Superman's dying energy and became one of two brand-new Superwomen, but that Lois died in the very first issue of the Superwoman title, conveniently leaving room for the older Lois to masquerade in her place. Older Clark and older Lois were somehow fooling everyone, and this was even before the eventual merger took place.

The best explanation is: comics!

But anyway, I think it means anyone who hasn't been seen since New 52 can in theory reappear in Rebirth.

I didn't read Reborn closely (as I don't usually stray that far out of Gotham ), so my explanation is always "comics!"

And anyway, even if someone is dead, it's still comics!

[ohfellow]

I didn't read Reborn closely (as I don't usually stray that far out of Gotham ), so my explanation is always "comics!"

And anyway, even if someone is dead, it's still comics!

Supergirl #8 starts an arc with Barbara, following on the heels of Batgirl Annual #1 featuring Supergirl. So it's Gotham-adjacent.

Now what is going on with the Detective variant covers? Is this just Mark Brooks "art" unrelated to the stories inside, which is the Arkham Knight story?

#1003b features Barbara, Zatanna, and what looks like Tim to me, and other Bat family characters. (But Barbara is in her New 52 costume I think.)

The upcoming #1004b looks like Tim and Zatanna again, Selina, Batwoman, and I think Tim and Huntress, and hmmm, a hooded figure in a full mask. Everything is colored in the same orange hue on these covers, but I'd swear that character is also wearing Spoiler's gloves (at least as drawn on Kris Anka's Young Justice cover).

Probably no relation to the interior, but nevertheless, someone is thinking of Steph? Unless some other character wears similar gloves, hood and mask.

[Konja7]

The current Superman remembers it all (I think), but his official history is a mix of the 2 Supermen (meaning a mix of New 52 and whatever reality the older Superman is from), and everyone else's memory has been similarly altered to match that official history. No one remembers it any other way.

I don't think Superman remember all. It is more likely Superman's memory also changed when the mix of history in Reborn happened.

Superman knows about the change, because he was there when the change happened. Lois and Jon too.