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  1. #31
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HypnoHustler View Post
    What would be hand waved? Do you mean just SS#24-25? That I'm okay with. But I wouldn't want the entire 2 year PAD run to be retconned if that's what you mean.

    Nothing personal, but I'm generally not a fan of "it was all a dream/ it was all an illusion" stories. I find them to be a cheap cop-out. I don't even like them when they retcons runs I'm not a fan of. For example, PAD basically did that to Bruce Jones 'Incredible Hulk' run when he came back for a few issues in the mid 2000s. I thought the Jones run was convoluted and overwrought, but I still thought it was a terribly lazy "out" for PAD just to have years of stories turn out to be an elaborate illusion by Nightmare.

    Anyway... I think Clone Conspiracy #5 pretty much fixed Ben. He's back to "factory settings" as he said. Which means he probably just wants a normal life again, and isn't hunting down people on a 'revenge' list, tempting as that scenario may be.

    I'd love to see him go back to 'The Daily Grind', but as others have said it's probably a Starbucks now. ��
    I think you mean Spider-Geddon #5, since Clone Conspiracy #5 (or #4 before it) was what damaged Ben as a character in the first place. Him becoming the Jackal as a way to make sense out of what'd been done to him and make his torturous resurrection not be for nothing was a good angle that could've worked, but sending him right into psychotic supervillain territory as soon as Peter told him he was wrong and called him out using the memory of Uncle Ben to punctuate why he was wrong was not a good look by any means. Thankfully, now that Ben's soul is fixed, he can finally move past what was done to him in a more constructive, or at least less destructive, manner and we as fans can start putting it behind us, I would hope.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    I think you mean Spider-Geddon #5, since Clone Conspiracy #5 (or #4 before it) was what damaged Ben as a character in the first place. .
    Yes, I meant Spider-Geddon #5. I don't know how I could've made that mistake.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by HypnoHustler View Post
    Yes, I meant Spider-Geddon #5. I don't know how I could've made that mistake.
    It's ok. I guess you just had it on the brain. It happens to all of us.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfang View Post
    I figured out a way to completely overwrite/hand-wave the events of Scarlet Spider; make everything appear as one massive illusion by Mysterio. We saw him with his daughter, he came into some kind of ancient power while there, he hates Spider-Man and could probably figure messing with his clone would lead him to the Spider-Man himself.
    Alternately, it could have been an extension of Mephisto's illusions. The timing would be perfect.

  5. #35
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    The heroic return of Ben Reilly begins in chapter twenty-eight of my What If OMD Never Happened story "Another Strand in the Great Web". Ben Reilly fans you owe it to yourself to read this chapter. I think this is one of the ways Ben could have been brought back and remained a hero while still having to deal with the psychological and physical effects of his time being tortured by the Jackal -

    https://www.fanfiction.net/s/1281972...-The-Great-Web

    If so inclined, enjoy.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    The heroic return of Ben Reilly begins in chapter twenty-eight of my What If OMD Never Happened story "Another Strand in the Great Web". Ben Reilly fans you owe it to yourself to read this chapter. I think this is one of the ways Ben could have been brought back and remained a hero while still having to deal with the psychological and physical effects of his time being tortured by the Jackal -

    https://www.fanfiction.net/s/1281972...-The-Great-Web

    If so inclined, enjoy.
    I did. Thank you. Thank you very much for this.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  7. #37
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    I did. Thank you. Thank you very much for this.
    I made Ben the new Iron Spider in this story for three reasons.

    1.) I want to do something that does not trivialize Ben's trauma as well as allows Kaine and Ben to co-exist without fighting over who will be Scarlet Spider (at least in the short term).

    2.) We've never really seen a spider deal with a long-term disability of any short either physical or psychological. Because in this continuity Ben never broke free from Jackal on his own (he was saved by Peter & MJ) we're going to get to see his (slow) healing processes on screen.

    3.) I want Ben to remain heroic but still face a struggle of identity.
    Last edited by Celgress; 01-22-2019 at 04:26 PM.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    I made Ben the new Iron Spider in this story for three reasons.

    1.) I want to do something that does not trivialize Ben's trauma as well as allows Kaine and Ben to co-exist without fighting over who will be Scarlet Spider (at least in the short term).

    2.) We've never really seen a spider deal with a long-term disability of any short either physical or psychological. Because in this continuity Ben never broke free from Jackal on his own (he was saved by Peter & MJ) we're going to get to see his (slow) healing processes on screen.

    3.) I want Ben to remain heroic but still face a struggle of identity.
    1) Hmm, speaking of Kaine, I wonder what'll happen if (or when) he comes back in this story, depending on your plans.

    2) Well, MC2 Peter lost a leg and Julia Carpenter was paralyzed for a while in the late 1990s after Mattie Franklin's debut, though the latter was undone pretty quickly when she regained her powers during the original Civil War . . . Yeah, I can see your point there.

    3) Same here.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  9. #39
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    1) Hmm, speaking of Kaine, I wonder what'll happen if (or when) he comes back in this story, depending on your plans.

    2) Well, MC2 Peter lost a leg and Julia Carpenter was paralyzed for a while in the late 1990s after Mattie Franklin's debut, though the latter was undone pretty quickly when she regained her powers during the original Civil War . . . Yeah, I can see your point there....
    1) I do have major plans for Kaine in this story. I can't say more here without spoiling things.

    2.) True, but as you pointed out one was undone rather quickly (Julie) while the other was not a major focus of the series in which the disability appeared other than being used as an excuse as to why the inflicted hero was inactive (MC2 Peter).

    Thanks again for your continued interest in my humble little story experiment.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  10. #40
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    1) I do have major plans for Kaine in this story. I can't say more here without spoiling things.

    2.) True, but as you pointed out one was undone rather quickly (Julie) while the other was not a major focus of the series in which the disability appeared other than being used as an excuse as to why the inflicted hero was inactive (MC2 Peter).

    Thanks again for your continued interest in my humble little story experiment.
    You're welcome.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  11. #41
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    I really can’t wait for a new Ben book. I mean, we really don’t need another Spider book out there focusing on Pete; the Friendly Neigborhood book they launched could have been a Spider-MEN book, that every few issues could rotate from Pete, Ben, Kaine. Or not just Spider-MEN, but jump on some of the Spider-Women too, like Silke, etc, etc.

    I just want more Ben, lol.

    The Iron Spider costume would have been perfect for Ben, but they’ve given that to Miles uncle for now. Would really like to see Ben become a regular in ANY Spider book. Maybe jump on the bandwagon of the blind Peter from Miles movie, and let Ben become part of Miles cast for a while.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blanks View Post
    I really can’t wait for a new Ben book. I mean, we really don’t need another Spider book out there focusing on Pete; the Friendly Neigborhood book they launched could have been a Spider-MEN book, that every few issues could rotate from Pete, Ben, Kaine. Or not just Spider-MEN, but jump on some of the Spider-Women too, like Silke, etc, etc.

    I just want more Ben, lol.

    The Iron Spider costume would have been perfect for Ben, but they’ve given that to Miles uncle for now. Would really like to see Ben become a regular in ANY Spider book. Maybe jump on the bandwagon of the blind Peter from Miles movie, and let Ben become part of Miles cast for a while.
    Yeah, it's kinda weird now because, in his whole history, Ben has either 1) been totally focused on, or 2) dead.

    So it's weird that he's alive right now, but we don't get to read about him.

    Hopefully the drought doesn't last long.

    -Pav, who would like to be buying more comics per month these days...
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  13. #43
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    For those interested, Season Two of my crossover story (Spider-Man and Doki Doki Literature Club) "Two Lost Souls" is now posted. Ben thought his past as the second Jackal was behind him but he is dead wrong. Ben and his new family will have to fight for everything they hold dear when a coalition of those he harmed, including Rhino, Ned Lees/Hobgoblin II and Lizard, seek vengeance led by an old enemy -

    https://www.fanfiction.net/s/12854184/23/Two-Lost-Souls

    Is so inclined, enjoy.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    For those interested, Season Two of my crossover story (Spider-Man and Doki Doki Literature Club) "Two Lost Souls" is now posted. Ben thought his past as the second Jackal was behind him but he is dead wrong. Ben and his new family will have to fight for everything they hold dear when a coalition of those he harmed, including Rhino, Ned Lees/Hobgoblin II and Lizard, seek vengeance led by an old enemy -

    https://www.fanfiction.net/s/12854184/23/Two-Lost-Souls

    Is so inclined, enjoy.
    That could actually be something worth following up on in the comics themselves, should they tackle him again. I mean, we have the Lizard and his cloned family showing up in ASM 14 (according to the preview), and Curt had to turn said family into Lizards like himself to save them from the Carrion infection that was exacerbated by Ben (people forget this, but Otto was the one who initially unleashed it out of spite and pique after Jackal-Ben insulted Anna Maria for her dwarfism and then revealed himself as a Spider-Clone) when he completely snapped over Peter refusing to join him. Yeah, Ben may be back to his old self now thanks to Spider-Geddon, but that doesn't --- and frankly shouldn't --- erase the harm he did as the Jackal, as the consequences are still out there, ready and waiting to pounce on him and everyone around him.

    I could see the Lizard wanting revenge on Ben for what happened to his family and what he (the Lizard) had to do to save them, and Rhino joining in, among others like maybe the Prowler . . . Come to think of it, if there were to be a new Scarlet Spider(s) series, the formation of a "Scarlet Spider Revenge Squad" could be the first major arc or so, perhaps masterminded by the original Jackal, who was merely left for dead by Ben in that burning safehouse as opposed to having actually been killed. Of course, it'd then turn out that Miles Warren made a deal with the same demon that Mysterio did (tying into ASM and forcing Ben and Peter to team up at the climax) or even with Mephisto himself, trying one more time to screw with Ben (and Peter by proxy, which would again force a climactic team-up).
    Last edited by Huntsman Spider; 01-26-2019 at 03:32 PM.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  15. #45
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    ....I could see the Lizard wanting revenge on Ben for what happened to his family and what he (the Lizard) had to do to save them, and Rhino joining in, among others like maybe the Prowler . . . Come to think of it, if there were to be a new Scarlet Spider(s) series, the formation of a "Scarlet Spider Revenge Squad" could be the first major arc or so, perhaps masterminded by the original Jackal, who was merely left for dead by Ben in that burning safehouse as opposed to having actually been killed. Of course, it'd then turn out that Miles Warren made a deal with the same demon that Mysterio did (tying into ASM and forcing Ben and Peter to team up at the climax) or even with Mephisto himself, trying one more time to screw with Ben (and Peter by proxy, which would again force a climactic team-up).
    Indeed, it will make a great storyline (which is why I'm using the idea in my own story). I picked a revived Spidercide rather than the original Jackal to be the catalyst, but the premise works either way.

    I find the entire question of when does justice become vengeance along with the corrosive nature of hatred, justified or not, endlessly fascinating. Ben's character is currently in a unique place among the Spiders where such darker topics can be freely explored. A pity Marvel seems to be squandering such a golden opportunity.
    Last edited by Celgress; 01-26-2019 at 05:42 PM.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

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